Slow On The Perimeter

[cowboysooner]

Wow, did it ever catch up to us last night. All of our closet secrets were revealed last night. Bird, Neal and blair are a little slow to guard quick players on the perimeter and don't handle the ball well enough to dribble penetrate against quick defenders.

Missouri shot the ball from the 3 like it was pre-game drills or warm up.

And like I mentioned in my post cincy thread, we haven't gotten tough enough to play mug ball. I didn't think we would match up well against Missouri and we don't. Under conference officiating, they are going to be able to touch you on the shot and you just have to be tough enough to forget about it and shoot the ball. We must have shot a half dozen shots that didn't hit rim or just barely got rim. Clark and Neal weren't even looking towards the backboard on most of their shots, much less the rim, and apparently wanted to let the officials win the game for us, which they chose not to do. I like it when the officials let the kids play and we just need to get tougher.

I like everything I have seen out of Lon so far, and think we just had a bad game and like gary said in another thread, and I paraphrase, we are playing OK or good for who we are, but we aren't good enough yet. I agree with this.

The only complaint I had about the game really was I couldn't understand why we weren't posting clark, neal and Bird and making their point guards guard a big kid in the low post. I'm not a coach, and I don't know how you get that accomplished, but their guards were quicker, but shorter and we didn't seem to make them pay for that. Again, maybe that wasn't something that could get done, I don't know.

All in all, I didn't think we matched up very well, but thought we would play them a little better.

We

 

[WTSooner]

Wow, did it ever catch up to us last night. All of our closet secrets were revealed last night. Bird, Neal and blair are a little slow to guard quick players on the perimeter and don't handle the ball well enough to dribble penetrate against quick defenders.

Funny thing is, it wasn't those three that killed us. Neal got beat, but then he went to the bench and stayed there. Blair didn't play much either. Cam isn't quick laterally. And we also gave up a lot of points having Fitz/Osby guard their fourth guard.

 

[garyeb2]

Funny thing is, it wasn't those three that killed us. Neal got beat, but then he went to the bench and stayed there. Blair didn't play much either. Cam isn't quick laterally. And we also gave up a lot of points having Fitz/Osby guard their fourth guard.

I don't know why I do this. It isn't my job. Today is my day to tinker with and improve my home made dijon mustard. Just for the fun of it I guess.

Kruger runs a switch and help type defense. It's complicated. It is hard for the kids to learn. It is even harder for practice observers to understand all the principals that he is feeding them. He huddles the kids up for instructions and watchers can not hear him. One has to watch the execution and then see where he makes corrections to piece together what he is trying to accomplish.

I don't have a coaching back ground. I could not teach it. Even if I weren't old and too fat, I couldn't run it.

But, I have picked up this much. It is not unusually for Osby,Fitz, Neal, Arent, or anyone for that matter to find themselves on the perimeter guarding a quicker player. That exposes the slower player to the liability of getting beat off the dribble. That is not rocket science. I know that.Everyone knows that. Kruger knows that.

When that happens,there is suppose to be off side help rotating over. The breakdown isn't when the initial defender gets beat. That possibility is built into the defense. The breakdown occurs when the help doesn't get there or is a step late. I'll stop here. But, guess who.

 

[WTSooner]

We weren't switching guard to post earlier this year. I think we did against Cincy, and we certainly did against Mizzou last night. I think the reason we did against Mizzou is because they were playing with 4 guards already, so EVERY play we had one of our posts on one of their guards, even before there were any screens to potentially switch on.

As for how complicated it is.....not saying this to belittle you or anything Gary, but I don't find it particularly difficult. Basketball defense in general isn't particularly difficult, IMO. But some kids never really grasp the off the ball stuff.

 

[garyeb2]

We weren't switching guard to post earlier this year. I think we did against Cincy, and we certainly did against Mizzou last night. I think the reason we did against Mizzou is because they were playing with 4 guards already, so EVERY play we had one of our posts on one of their guards, even before there were any screens to potentially switch on.

As for how complicated it is.....not saying this to belittle you or anything Gary, but I don't find it particularly difficult. Basketball defense in general isn't particularly difficult, IMO. But some kids never really grasp the off the ball stuff.

Oh, I know. And I'm certainly not offended or feel belittled. And this is a perfect example of why we don't agree on anything.

Everything is easy and simple for you because you veiw eveything thru a surerficial lense.

 

[AdaSooner]

Speed is relative to the match up. It's true in basketball as well as football. OU's defensive backs look fast, until they go up against receivers that run right past them like they were stuck in mud.

I think we all know that OU's BB team is not the quickest, most athletic team we've seen over the years. Kruger knows that, too. That's why he continues to teach (and preach) help defense as a means of containing quicker, more athletic teams like Mizzou. It has worked fairly well in most of our games so far. But when there is a complete breakdown of team-oriented defense that relies heavily on help from the weakside, the result is an embarrassing blowout like we one we saw last night.

I firmly believe that we'll see some improvements, at least to a point. It all depends on the team's commitment to defending as ONE UNIT. No player on this team is good enough or athletic enough to recover from the mistakes they make by trying to do it on their own.

 

[boksooner]

Oh, I know. And I'm certainly not offended or feel belittled. And this is a perfect example of why we don't agree on anything.

Everything is easy and simple for you because you veiw eveything thru a superficial lense.

You're right, Gary. Your posts aren't condescending at all.

 

[garyeb2]

You're right, Gary. Your posts aren't condescending at all.

You can take the things I say any way you want to. And you can frame them any way you want to. It is a message board. Say anything you want.

But, just to clarify. Everything that occurs in a highly competitive enviroment is complexed and hard. Nothing in a highly competitive enviroment is simple and easy. Not the strategy or the execution of that strategy.

Those that think otherwise are the losers in that enviroment. If they are just obsevers of that enviroment, (like most of us) they are veiwing it thru a superficial lens.

That is my opinion and position. If you want to disagree, feel free. How else would you have preferred me to express it? WT likes to fire at me pretty hard and he gets it back. He seems like a smart enough guy and a big boy. Why do so many of you think that he needs so much help defense?

 

[WTSooner]

If they are just obsevers of that enviroment, (like most of us) they are veiwing it thru a superficial lens.

I don't think there is anything superficial about the way I view the sports that I know well. I know the game of basketball. Maybe not on the level of Phil Jackson, or Lon Kruger, but I'm not the casual fan. It is my opinion that most basketball defense (save some weird zone stuff, or pressing/trapping) is relatively easy in theory. I'm not saying it's easy in practice, but there just isn't much to it. Stay in front of your man. Pressure the ball. If you are away from the ball, be ready to help unless you were told not to. I know it is a little more complicated than that, but there are only so many things you can do in basketball on offense or defense. It's not like football where you have to be able to defend thousands of looks/plays. I'm sorry that you don't agree with that, but if you are telling me that Lon Kruger teaches a type of man to man defense that is super complicated and hard to understand, I simply don't agree. I can follow what he WANTS the team to do. They just don't always do it. Sometimes b/c they aren't good enough or athletic enough, sometimes b/c they just make mistakes.

 

[thebigabd]

I don't think there is anything superficial about the way I view the sports that I know well. I know the game of basketball. Maybe not on the level of Phil Jackson, or Lon Kruger, but I'm not the casual fan. It is my opinion that most basketball defense (save some weird zone stuff, or pressing/trapping) is relatively easy in theory. I'm not saying it's easy in practice, but there just isn't much to it. Stay in front of your man. Pressure the ball. If you are away from the ball, be ready to help unless you were told not to. I know it is a little more complicated than that, but there are only so many things you can do in basketball on offense or defense. It's not like football where you have to be able to defend thousands of looks/plays. I'm sorry that you don't agree with that, but if you are telling me that Lon Kruger teaches a type of man to man defense that is super complicated and hard to understand, I simply don't agree. I can follow what he WANTS the team to do. They just don't always do it. Sometimes b/c they aren't good enough or athletic enough, sometimes b/c they just make mistakes.

Right, its not that hard. Thats why complete morons (some of them) who can barely read or get outta 9th grade can be so good at it.

 

[Sawyer]

we haven't gotten tough enough to play mug ball.

If you considered that mug ball, you're going to have a lot of fun against the rest of the Big 12...

 

[garyeb2]

I don't think there is anything superficial about the way I view the sports that I know well. I know the game of basketball. Maybe not on the level of Phil Jackson, or Lon Kruger, but I'm not the casual fan. It is my opinion that most basketball defense (save some weird zone stuff, or pressing/trapping) is relatively easy in theory. I'm not saying it's easy in practice, but there just isn't much to it. Stay in front of your man. Pressure the ball. If you are away from the ball, be ready to help unless you were told not to. I know it is a little more complicated than that, but there are only so many things you can do in basketball on offense or defense. It's not like football where you have to be able to defend thousands of looks/plays. I'm sorry that you don't agree with that, but if you are telling me that Lon Kruger teaches a type of man to man defense that is super complicated and hard to understand, I simply don't agree. I can follow what he WANTS the team to do. They just don't always do it. Sometimes b/c they aren't good enough or athletic enough, sometimes b/c they just make mistakes.

Yes WT, Offensive sets and defensesive schemes are simple. 19 yr old kids should be able to understand them. Coaches draw them up on a dry erase boards during 30 second time outs.

That is not the hard part. What makes the game complexed are the "what ifs."
and the "then whats" It is the contengencies.

When the coach sends the kids out to run a play or defend in a certain manner, "what if" the opponent doesn't respond in the anticipated manner, and, "then what" do you do? After all, it is a competitive enviroment, and the opponents don't always co-operate. The better coached teams seldom co-operate.

Kruger has spent countless hours teaching what ifs and then whats. He will always do that because the combinations are endless. Something seemingly as simple has having his point guard drive into the gap against a 1-3-1 zone could have a half dozen what if and then what responsibilities for both the point guard and the other 4 depending on which defender rotated to pick him up.

For every good strategy, there is an equally good counter strategy. Coaches are often the culprit in making the game harder and more complex that it could or should be. But, it is just that. Complicated and complexed.

 

[TEvans4Three]

I have some coaching experience.

The biggest thing about defense is getting everyone on the same page and running the defense over and over and over and over and over...until it is second nature. Making it muscle memory so you eliminate most of the "what ifs"

A lot of it has to do with athletic ability as well. No way can you run straight man to man vs. UK with a bunch of white guys...not that you would. But defense is about execution and knowing your place on the floor at ALL times.

My favorite part about coaching it brekaing down defenses and showing my offenses how to attack it. It makes you better defenders as well. When you can see the weaknesses in each defense and be able to adjust, in game, to correct it.

So, we were out matched and not prepared for the onslaught of athletic ability. We were a bit slow and probably should have adjusted. But I look at Coach K from Duke as an example. His first year he got killed because he had a defensive mindset that he stuck with. More athletic teams dominated him because his guys were not at that level yet. So Coach K kept working with them, got some more athletic players as well, and his system works.

You haev to remember, Kruger is a great coach with a great system. Personnel just doesnt mesh right now.