Smart

[bgrch1350]

This is partly my point. . .Our competition is going to take Smart regardless. . .We can recruit him until we are blue in the face.

Who did we miss out on? Fields (wouldn't have been $3000 and a cloud of dust), Spangler (try to say he didn't go to Gonzaga on Capels watch. . And who exactly do you trust when it comes to judging basketball talent. . Mark Few or Jeff Capel?), Clarke (say what you want about him but he would have been a four year kid), and go beyond our borders and look at Capel and his eggs-in-one-basket blind pursuit of kids he recruited like Lucas (cost us a LOT of kids including Roberson, who would have come here)

Heck, I would have taken the best Oklahoma had to offer before taking flyers on the vast number of east coast one year and out transfers and the extensive list of mediocre big man flyers Capel took on kids who didnt even average double figures in juco.

You bring up Willie Warren like that was a super successful haul. He was here two years that was marred by a questionable attitude and even more questionable leadership when was supposed to be 'the man' so what did he accomplish in college Clarke didn't?

You still haven't given me a single legit, logical reason we should be pursuing Smart right now and not taking a long hard look at Woodard.

Willie Warren help take us to the elite 8!!! He was banged up his sophmore year. I'll take a guy that stays 2 years and gets us to the elite 8 over a 4 year kid any day of the week.

I don't know where you coach, but in the D1...you can recruit Smart and Woodard at the same time. Theres no restrictions on that. I have no doubt that Kruger is recruiting other players than just Smart.

You talk about taking the best Oklahoma has to offer...you need to learn that you don't take kids..those kids choose to come here or they choose to go else where. Also what your saying is...not to take the best Oklahoma has to offer but to take the mediocre that Oklahoma offers. The best is Xavier Henry, JR Giddens, DeAngelo Alexander, Kevin Bookout, Shelden Williams, Azubukie, Etan Thomas, Darnell Jackson, Obi Muonelo, Blake Griffin, Daniel Orton, Ryan Humphrey. If we could take the best, as easy as you make it sound, those kids would have all came to OU...but thats not how it works.

If you want the woodards, fields, and spanglers of Oklahoma to make up the OU roster then you might as well call us Texas Tech b/c that is what Pat Knight brought in.

 

[bgrch1350]

So it was a given he was going to bring in Ellis and Randle? Ok. . . And what about his track record proved that? Harrison Barnes? Oh he went to UNC. . Jones? My bad UK. . . Lucas? Oops UF. . .HECK, he couldnt even keep guys that already signed with us. (Reynolds and James). . .Capel lost out on far more than he hit on.



You keep throwing stuff out there like it is fact. You bash Spangler for where he played high school at. . . Really?


I understand the recruiting game. I coach for a living (as of this year I am a small college head coach. .I know not DI but the concepts are the same. .But less pressure for me). Its kind of like gambling, you have to know when to fold em'.

Who cares on how many guys Capel struck out on. He's not the only coach that strikes out on kids. And its not like he put all of his eggs in 1 basket.

I don't know where you coach, but maybe you will get your wish in a couple of years when Spangler leaves Gonzaga and joins your small college. He can join the other top(mediocre) oklahoma players that couldn't cut it in D1...like your Kyle Hardrick, Cj Henry, which ever Smith brother that went to Colorado, Marchello Vealy, drew Haymaker, Xavier Alexander, James Watson, brandon jackson. Those are the type of players you want us to bring in. You say Gonzaga brought Spangler in so he must be good. Well I just listed guys that went to KU, Mem, GW, Wash St, ORU, Tulsa, Col, and OU.

And I don't know where you coach....but if your not D1..your recruiting techniques are not the same. In D1..you don't win and put fans in the seats...you get fired, and in order to do that you have to bring in top players. D2(lets take UCO for an example), They have $0 recruiting budget and they are only allowed to recruit Oklahoma players...with a couple of exceptions. You could be NAIA coach where you could bribe your kids with gifts and motorcycles(i use motorcycle b/c I know a player not that long ago that went to an NAIA school that was given this gift to come there). NCCAA don't even have scholarships. Again...recruiting techniques are not the same.

 

[CoachTalk]

I'm saying...what would it have mattered. Capel recruited the Harrison twins, Ellis, and Randle...all were high on us and now that he's not here...not one of them is considering us and you guys are complaining that he didn't recruit him; 1.who knows if Spangler would have still came here if he did recruit him and 2. You guys are crying over a kid that couldn't even get ranked by a single recruiting site when we had 4 highly recruited kids considering us. Randle(the #2 player in the country) has said that OU was his #1 choice and Ellis has said that we were one of his top choices and I have to listen about Spangler.

If Spangler was on our roster right now...he wouldn't see any playing time til he was at least a junior b/c he would not play over Osby, Fitzgerald, MBaye, Neal, Honore, Washington, and Arent(if Capel was still here, he still wouldn't have played over Goff and even Arent would have most likely came here). Now if Capel was still here, and he would have brought in Ellis and Randle...Spangler never would have played for us. So if Capel is the one recruiting and he feels strongly that he was going to bring in Ellis and Randle...why waste another scholarship on a kid that most likely never would have played.

I would take spangler over "Neal, Honore, Washington, and Arent".... Good thing you arent elvaluating talent for a living.. or coaching for that matter.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Who cares on how many guys Capel struck out on. He's not the only coach that strikes out on kids. And its not like he put all of his eggs in 1 basket.

I don't know where you coach, but maybe you will get your wish in a couple of years when Spangler leaves Gonzaga and joins your small college. He can join the other top(mediocre) oklahoma players that couldn't cut it in D1...like your Kyle Hardrick, Cj Henry, which ever Smith brother that went to Colorado, Marchello Vealy, drew Haymaker, Xavier Alexander, James Watson, brandon jackson. Those are the type of players you want us to bring in. You say Gonzaga brought Spangler in so he must be good. Well I just listed guys that went to KU, Mem, GW, Wash St, ORU, Tulsa, Col, and OU.

And I don't know where you coach....but if your not D1..your recruiting techniques are not the same. In D1..you don't win and put fans in the seats...you get fired, and in order to do that you have to bring in top players. D2(lets take UCO for an example), They have $0 recruiting budget and they are only allowed to recruit Oklahoma players...with a couple of exceptions. You could be NAIA coach where you could bribe your kids with gifts and motorcycles(i use motorcycle b/c I know a player not that long ago that went to an NAIA school that was given this gift to come there). NCCAA don't even have scholarships. Again...recruiting techniques are not the same.

that is where you are wrong. The recruiting techniques absolutely are the same. The skill level of the athletes are different but you are still doing exactly the same thing, selling kids on your program and your school. Recruiting budgets just give you the chance to do it on a grander scale. I can assure you of one thing though, if I have to 'buy' a recruit with gifts he isn't playing for me because I don't work that way and never will. That is the one thing I have tons of respect for Kruger for. . .doing things the right way.


You said Capel didn't put all his eggs into one basket but he absolutely did. Lucas was a prime example. You can bash Roberson and Tech if you like but he was a solid pg. . Yes he played for a mediocre team but he was a good player. You are on Willie Warrens jock about the Elite Eight you need to open your eyes. . .HE didn't LEAD us there. . He was a PASSENGER on the ride. . BLAKE GRIFFIN was the driver. Warren lead us nowhere his sophomore year but to the cellar. Blame it on injuries if you want but it was well documented that he had a poor attitude and it showed in games.

Funny you keep bashing Spangler when he hasn't even played a game yet. That destroys your credibility. Another thing you obviously don't take into account is the relationship building involved in recruiting. You have to build relationships with coaches and players and if you ignore local kids and coaches you build a wall that is hard to climb when they have elite players. I never said to fill your roster with every Oklahoma player but if you want the best ones you have to have a few of the four year program builder glue guys like Godbold for example. . . Neal. . .Fields. . . Spangler. . . And I feel like Woodard fits in that category. Like I said before, we aren't talking recruiting a DIII kid here, he is getting attention from some big DI schools and it would obviously give us the added benefit of getting closer to the family and getting them on campus and involved with the program which would give us a huge advantage with the younger brother. You bashed all these Oklahoma kids in your post by calling them out but you forgot to compare them to the people Capel brought in. Those guys were as good as a lot of the guys who left our program high and dry and they would have given us the aded benefit of giving us the edge and reputation with Oklahoma high school coaches and players. You can't even see that because YOU don't understand the whole picture of the recruiting process.

 

[bgrch1350]

that is where you are wrong. The recruiting techniques absolutely are the same. The skill level of the athletes are different but you are still doing exactly the same thing, selling kids on your program and your school. Recruiting budgets just give you the chance to do it on a grander scale. I can assure you of one thing though, if I have to 'buy' a recruit with gifts he isn't playing for me because I don't work that way and never will. That is the one thing I have tons of respect for Kruger for. . .doing things the right way.


You said Capel didn't put all his eggs into one basket but he absolutely did. Lucas was a prime example. You can bash Roberson and Tech if you like but he was a solid pg. . Yes he played for a mediocre team but he was a good player. You are on Willie Warrens jock about the Elite Eight you need to open your eyes. . .HE didn't LEAD us there. . He was a PASSENGER on the ride. . BLAKE GRIFFIN was the driver. Warren lead us nowhere his sophomore year but to the cellar. Blame it on injuries if you want but it was well documented that he had a poor attitude and it showed in games.

Funny you keep bashing Spangler when he hasn't even played a game yet. That destroys your credibility. Another thing you obviously don't take into account is the relationship building involved in recruiting. You have to build relationships with coaches and players and if you ignore local kids and coaches you build a wall that is hard to climb when they have elite players. I never said to fill your roster with every Oklahoma player but if you want the best ones you have to have a few of the four year program builder glue guys like Godbold for example. . . Neal. . .Fields. . . Spangler. . . And I feel like Woodard fits in that category. Like I said before, we aren't talking recruiting a DIII kid here, he is getting attention from some big DI schools and it would obviously give us the added benefit of getting closer to the family and getting them on campus and involved with the program which would give us a huge advantage with the younger brother. You bashed all these Oklahoma kids in your post by calling them out but you forgot to compare them to the people Capel brought in. Those guys were as good as a lot of the guys who left our program high and dry and they would have given us the aded benefit of giving us the edge and reputation with Oklahoma high school coaches and players. You can't even see that because YOU don't understand the whole picture of the recruiting process.

You think your high and mighty b/c you coach for some small school. You think bringing in any of those kids gives us an advantage with top Oklahoma kids. We had the Griffin's on our roster and Orton and Henry didn't want anything to do with us(and we even had an AAU teammate committed, Hardrick). We had Bookout and Alexander on our roster...that didn't help us bring in Giddens, Muonelo and D.Jackson.

Show me the documentation on Warren's bad attitude. I want to see it. An article...something. As for Warren riding the coattails of Griffin, He was the only other player to average over 10 ppg that season(he avg 14.6). We don't win 30 games w/o him and we don't make it past the 2nd round w/o him. As for the following season...a preseason AA and he misses 10 games and was banged up for even more games. Your right about one thing...w/o Warren, we went straight to the cellar. 9 straight losses w/o him.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

You think your high and mighty b/c you coach for some small school. You think bringing in any of those kids gives us an advantage with top Oklahoma kids. We had the Griffin's on our roster and Orton and Henry didn't want anything to do with us(and we even had an AAU teammate committed, Hardrick). We had Bookout and Alexander on our roster...that didn't help us bring in Giddens, Muonelo and D.Jackson.

Show me the documentation on Warren's bad attitude. I want to see it. An article...something. As for Warren riding the coattails of Griffin, He was the only other player to average over 10 ppg that season(he avg 14.6). We don't win 30 games w/o him and we don't make it past the 2nd round w/o him. As for the following season...a preseason AA and he misses 10 games and was banged up for even more games. Your right about one thing...w/o Warren, we went straight to the cellar. 9 straight losses w/o him.

ASK and you shall receive. You obviously have a select memory when it comes to WW. . . there were all kinds of stories about his attitude and selfishness. How he never bought in to the off season workouts and how it rubbed off on TMG and Tiny.


And I don't think I am high and mighty at all. I just prefaced my comments so you would know I have SOME experience with recruiting, coaching and relationship building at the college level. I admitted not having DI experience and some of the recruiting at that level is different but it still comes down to the same thing. . . Building a relationship with the kid, his parents and his coaches.

I still say getting Woodard would be positive for this program in more ways than one. Do I think he is better than Smart? No but I think Smart is going to Texas. If the staff feels like we have a legit shot I am all for going after him.

http://blog.newsok.com/ou/2010/04/07/warren-to-go-pro/

quote from the article:

"Early on during the season, coach Jeff Capel publicly questioned Warren’s attitude and leadership"



http://www.nbadraft.net/players/willie-warren


from nbadraft.net. . . .quote:

"Undisciplined decision maker, with an inconsistent jump shot, negative attitude and troublesome ankle will put a scare in some coaches and GMs ... Apparently was at odds with Coach Capel and those close to the team pointed to lack of maturity and selfishness as reasons for Warren's inability to fill the high expectations in his sophomore year"



http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com/2010/6/25/1536052/willie-warren-and-blake-griffin


from another article regarding where he was drafted:


"There's no way you'll ever convince me that Willie Warren went where he thought he would in the NBA draft but there's no way you'll convince me he couldn't have landed in a better place. Thought to be a lock as a first round draft pick had he chosen to come out after his freshman season, Warren was selected with the 54th overall pick in Thursday night's 2010 NBA draft. That's 7th from last for the guy who has the me first attitude.



However, there is some really good news for Willie Warren in this year's draft. The best possible NBA home for Warren was in L.A.* because the Clippers have the one guy that he could not only get along with but also find success on the court with. Former Sooner teammate Blake Griffin will be a sight for sore eyes for Willie Warren who no doubt possesses NBA talent but had major character issues."



http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/tag/_/name/willie-warren


From an ESPN blog about the draft:


"First there's Warren, the Fort Worth native who entered last season as a top 5 draft prospect. But, poor play, poor attitude, poor chemistry, injuries (and an apparent bout of mononucleosis) doomed the 6-foot-4 sophomore point guard to slide and slide and slide down the draft board. After averaging 16.3 points and 4.1 assists in just 21 games, he's projected to either go late in the first round or even perhaps slip all the way into the second round. The thing about Warren, though, is if he gets his head on straight and puts forth full effort, he could be a steal the farther he drops. "


http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2007/7/9/143843/3833

This is just a recruiting blog but quite telling even before he arrived at OU.


"I have lived through the random committments, the most recent one to Baylor, and having it taken back by his mother. Still, I remained interested in WW, confident that he would be able to perform on the court with little off-court trouble. However, a recent article in the Lexington Herald-Leader gives way to selfishness and a me-first attitude, an attitude that is unwelcome at nearly all powerhouse programs, Kansas and Kentucky included. Here is an example:

"I want to get in and make an immediate impact," Warren said. "I don't want to go to a school where if I don't play well right away, I can be substituted for."
So, let me get this straight. You are assuming you start right away, and are already anticipating a possible slow start. That isn't a good combination, although it might be tolerated at a school like Baylor with a goal of reaching the NCAA Tournament in mind, not the National Championship. However, at Kansas, Kentucky and Louisville there is a goal of winning a National Championship. Every year. Some whiny kid from Texas wanting playing time isn't going to force National Championship aspirations to go on the back burner, WW's feelings will go back instead. And if he isn't at the forefront of attention, I get the feeling he would be prone to run his mouth and start some problems. Frankly, few players (if any) are worth the off-field trouble he might require, leading me to believe that we might be better off WW-less."