Thanks to Kerwin Roach, Kuoat Noi, and Michael Weathers

[NMSooner'80]

Well, if you're going to play that little "what if" game - try this: KU's streak in the Big 12 would be about five years shorter if some kid from OU named Blake Griffin hadn't gotten hurt before the KU game in his sophomore year. Blake missed just enough time that year to swing the league race (and that game in Norman) the wrong way. I've never heard a KU fan yet try to give back that 2009 league title. I figure they all assume it was part of their wonderful, morally superior Beaker destiny that they got that kind of a break.

 

[thebigabd]

Did you really just say OSU had a 95% of beating us if they had Michael Weathers?

They were up by 20 points with 6 scholarship players.

This thread is fermenting pretty well.....thanks for the entertainment

Pretty funny.

Seems like any criticism or comments that are not extremely favorable to the team, program, or coaches just isn't taken well by the "positive" posters. It's interesting to me that the people dishing out 90% of the personal insults, harassing posters for their opinions/content, etc are the alleged "good guys"...

 

[Eielson]

They were up by 20 points with 6 scholarship players.

And? You think they'd have been up 30 if Weathers was playing? You can't pick and choose what parts of the game he would have influenced.

Also, we beat them with Weathers early in the season. And before you bring up home court advantage, don't forget that we barely lost at Texas with Roach playing.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Well, if you're going to play that little "what if" game - try this: KU's streak in the Big 12 would be about five years shorter if some kid from OU named Blake Griffin hadn't gotten hurt before the KU game in his sophomore year. Blake missed just enough time that year to swing the league race (and that game in Norman) the wrong way. I've never heard a KU fan yet try to give back that 2009 league title. I figure they all assume it was part of their wonderful, morally superior Beaker destiny that they got that kind of a break.

Self publicly acknowledged that they wouldn't have won the league that season if Blake hadn't gotten hurt. A lot of their rational fans agree.

 

[thebigabd]

I totally agree... KU got lucky that year. They didn't do anything wrong, they didn't cheat, but they got fortunate.

Just like OU has this year.

This is not an insult.... just an observation.

 

[TINY]

I totally agree... KU got lucky that year. They didn't do anything wrong, they didn't cheat, but they got fortunate.

Just like OU has this year.

This is not an insult.... just an observation.

Ou lost Jamuni for over half of the season. How is that fortunate?

 

[thebigabd]

Ou lost Jamuni for over half of the season. How is that fortunate?

He's not our best player. He's the 5th best player. Perhaps I didn't explain why the timing is noteworthy correctly.

• OSU lost half their team the right before playing OU.
• TCU lost their best player immediately before playing OU. He played the game before OU.
• Texas lost their best player 1-2 days before playing OU. He played the game before playing OU.

It's not like Noi or Roach have been out for a month... They were playing up until it was time to play OU. That is why the timing is noteworthy.

Without Noi TCU lost to OU at home and OSU on the road... then he comes back and scores 20 points and gets 13 rebounds and they beat ISU. He has been on fire and missed the OU game.

Kerwich Roach is their leading scorer and senior leader, lost 1-2 days before playing OU. Look at what he did the last 10 games:

17 points, 5 rebounds
13 points, 4 rebounds
23 points, 8 rebounds
15 points, 4 rebounds
16 points, 4 rebounds
15 points, 4 rebounds
19 points, 4 rebounds
21 points, 3 rebounds
17 points, 8 rebounds
16 points, 3 rebounds

SUSPENDED IMMEDIATELY BEFORE PLAYING OU.

It's just an interesting observation, guys. Geez.

 

[skyvue]

It's just an interesting observation, guys. Geez.

But your observation was a surface one -- a cherry-picked data point -- and one that reflected badly on the team people on this board cheer for. You expected to be lauded for it?

You didn't acknowledge that ut barely beat OU in Austin with Roach on the court.

You didn't acknowledge that OU has been without its starting center virtually the entire conference season -- I don't care if he's the team's best, third-best or fifth-best starter, he plays a vital role and we're thin at his position. And I would say a team losing one its true center, because of the way it impacts both the defense and the offense, is a greater loss than losing one of several quality guards.

You didn't mention (as someone else pointed out) that we played a better, more complete KU team than virtually anyone else in the league has (and we gave them all they wanted in Lawrence).

And worse, you didn't mention the contributions of the player who got Roach's minutes on Saturday: Febres had 15 points and 5 rebounds, numbers which very much resemble Roach's totals in many of the games you cited during Roach's "hot streak."

Finally, playing the victim when we don't line up to praise your insightful "observation" is classic troll behavior.

 

[WichitaSooner]

But your observation was a surface one -- a cherry-picked data point -- and one that reflected badly on the team people on this board cheer for.

You didn't acknowledge that ut barely beat OU in Austin with Roach on the court.

You didn't acknowledge that OU has been without its starting center virtually the entire conference season -- I don't care if he's the team's best, third-best or fifth-best starter, he plays a vital role and we're thin at his position. And I would say a team losing one its true center, because of the way it impacts both the defense and the offense, is a greater loss than losing one of several quality guards.

You didn't mention (as someone else pointed out) that we played a better, more complete KU team than virtually anyone else in the league has (and we gave them all they wanted in Lawrence).

And worse, you didn't mention the contributions of the player who got Roach's minutes on Saturday: Febres had 15 points and 5 rebounds, numbers which very much resemble Roach's totals in many of the games you cited during Roach's "hot streak."

Finally, playing the victim when we don't line up to praise your insightful "observation" is classic troll behavior.

Plus, Noi had a great game (maybe a career high) in Norman. We beat them anyway. Roach had a huge game against us in Austin. The game came down to the final possession and we had a couple of shots in the air that would have forced OT. So for anyone to suggest that it is all but certain we would have lost both games, AND OSU, is ridiculous.

 

[thebigabd]

But your observation was a surface one -- a cherry-picked data point -- and one that reflected badly on the team people on this board cheer for. You expected to be lauded for it?

I don't expect to be lauded for anything that is posted on a message board about collegiate athletics.

Finally, playing the victim when we don't line up to praise your insightful "observation" is classic troll behavior.

I am not the only victim of you and the other members of your cartel. Many on this forum over the years have been run off by you guys. I just post stuff that is interesting or noteworthy, you guys get your panties in a wad on a daily basis.

If you don't think the timing is fortunate, or didn't find it interesting, I don't know what to tell you... I guess come up with your own things to post. Maybe people will join in and find whatever you want to talk about interesting?

Nothing you say, unless its a direct attack on someone (which is probably 40% of your posts), gets my undergarments in a wad.

 

[thebigabd]

Plus, Noi had a great game (maybe a career high) in Norman. We beat them anyway. Roach had a huge game against us in Austin. The game came down to the final possession and we had a couple of shots in the air that would have forced OT. So for anyone to suggest that it is all but certain we would have lost both games, AND OSU, is ridiculous.

Valid way to disagree with someone.

 

[oudna]

He's not our best player. He's the 5th best player. Perhaps I didn't explain why the timing is noteworthy correctly.

At the time of injury, McNiece was more like our 2nd best player. Averaging 10/7/2

Granted unlikely that would’ve lasted, as we saw with James but his contribution was huge early

Hopefully McKnees is close to 100% now

 

[WTSooner]

Seems like ESPN agrees with bigabd.

Speaking of good fortune, Kerwin Roach II missed the game in which Texas lost by two points to Oklahoma in Norman, and that game counts as a "we'll take that" Quad 2 win for the Sooners.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25923557/500-no-problem-2019#Big12

 

[WichitaSooner]

Seems like ESPN agrees with bigabd.



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25923557/500-no-problem-2019#Big12

Interesting, because I didn't see anything in there where ESPN stated that there was a 95% chance Texas would have won. For a guy big on facts, you seem pretty loose with them yourself. Also interesting that you completely ignore the main point of the article, which is about our tourney chances and which specifically reiterated the fact than conference record doesn't matter. Note I said interesting, not surprising.

No one here has disputed bigabd's general observation that playing a team without one of their key players is a stroke of good fortune. What many of us have challenged is the patently ridiculous comment that he is 95% sure we would have lost ALL THREE GAMES to UT, TCU, and OSU. That would mean we had about a 98% change to lose each individual game. If anyone actually thinks we would lose to those teams 49 our of 50 times in any venue, you are beyond help.

 

[TheGimper]

Seems like ESPN agrees with bigabd.

That only hurts someone’s argument.

 

[oudna]

Seems like ESPN agrees with bigabd.



http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25923557/500-no-problem-2019#Big12

Not really

Everyone has agreed it was good fortune

Don’t agree it’s a certain loss if he plays. Seems like another toss up

 

[thebigabd]

Interesting, because I didn't see anything in there where ESPN stated that there was a 95% chance Texas would have won. For a guy big on facts, you seem pretty loose with them yourself. Also interesting that you completely ignore the main point of the article, which is about our tourney chances and which specifically reiterated the fact than conference record doesn't matter. Note I said interesting, not surprising.

No one here has disputed bigabd's general observation that playing a team without one of their key players is a stroke of good fortune. What many of us have challenged is the patently ridiculous comment that he is 95% sure we would have lost ALL THREE GAMES to UT, TCU, and OSU. That would mean we had about a 98% change to lose each individual game. If anyone actually thinks we would lose to those teams 49 our of 50 times in any venue, you are beyond help.

Do you think OU's odds of winning/losing changed at all in these 3 games? If so, how much?

 

[TINY]

He's not our best player. He's the 5th best player. Perhaps I didn't explain why the timing is noteworthy correctly.

• OSU lost half their team the right before playing OU.
• TCU lost their best player immediately before playing OU. He played the game before OU.
• Texas lost their best player 1-2 days before playing OU. He played the game before playing OU.

It's not like Noi or Roach have been out for a month... They were playing up until it was time to play OU. That is why the timing is noteworthy.

Without Noi TCU lost to OU at home and OSU on the road... then he comes back and scores 20 points and gets 13 rebounds and they beat ISU. He has been on fire and missed the OU game.

Kerwich Roach is their leading scorer and senior leader, lost 1-2 days before playing OU. Look at what he did the last 10 games:

17 points, 5 rebounds
13 points, 4 rebounds
23 points, 8 rebounds
15 points, 4 rebounds
16 points, 4 rebounds
15 points, 4 rebounds
19 points, 4 rebounds
21 points, 3 rebounds
17 points, 8 rebounds
16 points, 3 rebounds

SUSPENDED IMMEDIATELY BEFORE PLAYING OU.

It's just an interesting observation, guys. Geez.

Jamuni was one of our top 3 players prior to being injured and arguably the most valuable considering his replacement value. Ou was very unfortunate to lose him for so long. A healthy Jamuni for the season would equate to more wins than we have now, even playing those other teams at full strength.

 

[Eielson]

At the time of injury, McNiece was more like our 2nd best player. Averaging 10/7/2

Granted unlikely that would’ve lasted, as we saw with James but his contribution was huge early

Hopefully McKnees is close to 100% now

Agreed. Juwani is the hardest player we have to replace.

 

[skyvue]

I am not the only victim of you and the other members of your cartel.

Wait, I have a cartel? I wish someone had told me.

I'll reiterate my primary point: If one is going to claim that Roach's absence was a key factor in OU's win, one should check to see how the player who got his minutes performed.