The assistant coach argument.....

[WTSooner]

Those of you that think our assistant coaches played a big role in our underperforming team this year.....how do you reconcile that with Kelvin having a staff of his son, Hollis, and Quannis, and having a pretty salty team that on paper doesn't have anywhere near the talent that OU does? And just to clarify, Hollis actually has a player development role, not an assistant coaching spot. The other assistant is Alvin Brooks.

I'm not saying OU's assistants haven't been a down grade from the previous ones, I'm simply saying a good HC should be able to have success with the guys we have on staff. Or more success than we've had.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Those of you that think our assistant coaches played a big role in our underperforming team this year.....how do you reconcile that with Kelvin having a staff of his son, Hollis, and Quannis, and having a pretty salty team that on paper doesn't have anywhere near the talent that OU does? And just to clarify, Hollis actually has a player development role, not an assistant coaching spot. The other assistant is Alvin Brooks.

I'm not saying OU's assistants haven't been a down grade from the previous ones, I'm simply saying a good HC should be able to have success with the guys we have on staff. Or more success than we've had.

it tells me that Kelvin is more likely to be involved more with the players while lon probably defers to his assisstants more

 

[DenverSooner]

Maybe Kellen, Hollis and Quanis are better assistants. I wouldn’t know. I do know Hollis and Quanis are amazing guys. They got themselves out of a tough environment.

 

[Soonerinkc]

having all 3 of them played under KS..and obviously his son being around him forever...KS's def philosophy and hustle attitude has rubbed off on them. An assistant is as good as his HC.

I'm not in the Henson is the answer camp. See how his teams do on his own a few years.

I listened to KS at a HS coaches camp in KC and Vegas when he was OU, he was good. The one thing I remember is his "bball is NOT an equal opportunity sport", ya got roles.

Just my 2 cents worth. Def will always be the mainstay in all sports.

 

[mict085]

Kelvin is probably more involved in everything. Lon probably delegated more to 2 assistants that were with him for 20 years. At this stage of Lon’s career, he probably needs stronger assistant coaches.

 

[Matthew G]

Those of you that think our assistant coaches played a big role in our underperforming team this year.....how do you reconcile that with Kelvin having a staff of his son, Hollis, and Quannis, and having a pretty salty team that on paper doesn't have anywhere near the talent that OU does? And just to clarify, Hollis actually has a player development role, not an assistant coaching spot. The other assistant is Alvin Brooks.

I'm not saying OU's assistants haven't been a down grade from the previous ones, I'm simply saying a good HC should be able to have success with the guys we have on staff. Or more success than we've had.

Or maybe it's because Kelvin has an experienced team.


Leading scorers:


Rob Gray: SR, 19.2 PPG
Davis Jr: Jr, 13.4 PPG
Davis: SR, 10.7 PPG



Those are the only 3 who average more than 10 ppg, and of course, they are either seniors or juniors. Which is how Houston is.


The starting lineup

Gray (SR)
Davis (SR)
Robinson Jr (Jr)
Brady (Jr)
Davis Jr (Jr)


So I mean, it's not shocking that the defense is really good due to the experience, and then they have a really good PG in Gray who can go off any given night.

 

[sdcloud9]

having all 3 of them played under KS..and obviously his son being around him forever...KS's def philosophy and hustle attitude has rubbed off on them. An assistant is as good as his HC.

I'm not in the Henson is the answer camp. See how his teams do on his own a few years.

I listened to KS at a HS coaches camp in KC and Vegas when he was OU, he was good. The one thing I remember is his "bball is NOT an equal opportunity sport", ya got roles.

Just my 2 cents worth. Def will always be the mainstay in all sports.

One of Kelvin's best things is getting guys to understand their roles. Lon has always been more of an equal opportunity coach.

 

[cowboysooner]

I think our assistants are fine. The one question or thought I have is whether losing Steve Henson has effected team perimeter shooting.

Supposedly, Steve was a shooting guru and seemed to get a lot of Kudos from folks about that during buddy's last two years. I don't know if they is actually true, but if it is, perhaps losing steve has lessened the development of our perimeter players and their outside shooting.

Anyone know if this was Steve's strong suit and whether there is anything to this theory.

 

[AdaSooner]

Those of you that think our assistant coaches played a big role in our underperforming team this year.....how do you reconcile that with Kelvin having a staff of his son, Hollis, and Quannis, and having a pretty salty team that on paper doesn't have anywhere near the talent that OU does? And just to clarify, Hollis actually has a player development role, not an assistant coaching spot. The other assistant is Alvin Brooks.

I'm not saying OU's assistants haven't been a down grade from the previous ones, I'm simply saying a good HC should be able to have success with the guys we have on staff. Or more success than we've had.

You may not be saying OU’s assistants are a downgrade from the previous staff, but you did one heck of a job of proving it. It’s obvious Hollis, Quannis and Kellen have done a bang up job of identifying needs and evaluating the talent available to fill those needs. And, if you believe the juco ranks are all but void of good players these days, they did it the hard way.

It’s also clear someone on Houston’s staff convinced those players to buy into Kelvin’s coaching style thst emphasizes tough, hardnosed defense. We all know he is an in-your-face disciplinarian. But, he didn’t teach all of those players to defend, block out on the boards, view floor burns as a badge of honor and play as one unit on his own. Kelvin a great coach, but he can’t be everything to everyone in practice and on the bench.

The point I have made for sometime is that Lon did not get the help he needed from his assistants. And, except for Krutchfield, they darned sure didn’t earn their pay in recruiting.

If I’m wrong about Lon’s latest hires, I hope someone will step up with the evidence to prove it. I really do. I don’t want to believe Lon made two bad hires.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Or maybe it's because Kelvin has an experienced team.


Leading scorers:


Rob Gray: SR, 19.2 PPG
Davis Jr: Jr, 13.4 PPG
Davis: SR, 10.7 PPG



Those are the only 3 who average more than 10 ppg, and of course, they are either seniors or juniors. Which is how Houston is.


The starting lineup

Gray (SR)
Davis (SR)
Robinson Jr (Jr)
Brady (Jr)
Davis Jr (Jr)


So I mean, it's not shocking that the defense is really good due to the experience, and then they have a really good PG in Gray who can go off any given night.

Our experienced players are some of our worst players and are the ones that lack the most fundamentals..

 

[WTSooner]

If I’m wrong about Lon’s latest hires, I hope someone will step up with the evidence to prove it. I really do. I don’t want to believe Lon made two bad hires.

There is no way to know if that is true or not. Zero. It simply can't be proven. I guess if he fires them both, hires two new ones, and we see instant success, maybe. But that isn't going to happen.

I just want to believe that if the assistants are in over their head, LK would step in and fill what ever gap exists.

In terms of Houston, White is in his first year there, and doesn't have much experience. Just seems, convenient to me to say that those guys are just better than our guys. Maybe they are. I certainly like them more, lol. Or maybe it's just that Kelvin does a better job than Lon, and that is the real difference. I don't know. We don't know.

 

[AdaSooner]

There is no way to know if that is true or not. Zero. It simply can't be proven. I guess if he fires them both, hires two new ones, and we see instant success, maybe. But that isn't going to happen.

I just want to believe that if the assistants are in over their head, LK would step in and fill what ever gap exists.

In terms of Houston, White is in his first year there, and doesn't have much experience. Just seems, convenient to me to say that those guys are just better than our guys. Maybe they are. I certainly like them more, lol. Or maybe it's just that Kelvin does a better job than Lon, and that is the real difference. I don't know. We don't know.

The evidence I can offer would not stand up in a court of law. The only recruit in our 2019 class that could possibly be attributed to the new assistants on Lon’s staff is Kur Kuath, a juco player averaging 11 points and 7 rebounds per game, while shooting 17% from three and 57% from the free throw line. To my knowledge, that is their only claim to fame on the recruiting trail. Crutchfield recruited Bieniemy. I’ve got to be Lon was the main recruiter with Polla, due to his relationship with his coach.

I’m also concerned about our poor defense and player development, both areas usually assigned to the assistants on staff. It’s highly likely Kevin is more hands-on than Lon in working with the players. Lon assigns most of those duties to his assistants in practice. I don’t have a problem with thst if they’re doing a good job. You saw our defense this season. You have been a witness to the development of our players the last two years. Have you been impressed?

 

[WTSooner]

I don't think Lon's teams typically ever play good defense. Adequate some years? Sure. I think I looked up his past teams' D rankings last year, but I've forgotten exactly what the conclusion was.

 

[Matthew G]

Our experienced players are some of our worst players and are the ones that lack the most fundamentals..

So does this mean Henson and them suck? Because they would have been the ones to develop them their freshmen year, and their sophomore year is the year everyone says James and Odomes really sucked, so that would be on Henson and them right?


IMO, people over exaggerate Henson and them. But then again, I think people are too extreme on everything. Because OU's lost, it's everyone sucks, Kruger sucks, etc. When OU was winning it was "This team is amazing. Everyone is great. Kruger is great, Natty here we come."

 

[Matthew G]

I don't think Lon's teams typically ever play good defense. Adequate some years? Sure. I think I looked up his past teams' D rankings last year, but I've forgotten exactly what the conclusion was.

2012 (1st year): 90th
2013: 80th
2014: 82nd
2015: 7th
2016:17 (final four)
2017: 39th
2018:86th


So 2 years, when we had experience, 2014/15 (started 1 sophomore, 3 jrs, 1 sr) and 2015/16 (started 1 so, 1 jr, and 3 Srs).

Next year, we should have experience (SHOULD start: 3 jrs, 2 srs) so the defense SHOULD be a lot better.

 

[WTSooner]

2012 (1st year): 90th
2013: 80th
2014: 82nd
2015: 7th
2016:17 (final four)
2017: 39th
2018:86th


So 2 years, when we had experience, 2014/15 (started 1 sophomore, 3 jrs, 1 sr) and 2015/16 (started 1 so, 1 jr, and 3 Srs).

Next year, we should have experience (SHOULD start: 3 jrs, 2 srs) so the defense SHOULD be a lot better.

I'm surprised the numbers are that good in 2015 and 2016, but it shouldn't take a senior laden team to get a top 50 defense. And I'm talking about going back even further, to his previous jobs, I don't remember him having a stellar record of good defense.

But that does kind of fit into my argument in the other thread about too many ups and downs with LK. He needs to be able to field a better team without having a couple of junior/senior studs. Or he needs to find a way to have good upperclassmen more consistently.

What site did you use? Looks like Ken Pom?

 

[opsooner]

Both things can be true and I think they are. Kelvin is awesome at developing players into a team where players know their roles and fulfill them. Players also improve under him. It is proven over and over regardless of assistants.

LK has a good track record with different assistants as well but what I see from the team the past few years is all the little things missing or at least worsening. It might be that he coaches the big things like offensive sets, breaks, and such but does not get so involved in the smaller things that can add up to being so important. Those are things like learning to finish at the rim, fighting for rebounds, blocking out, and other fundamentals. It also appears that we are not as aware of opponent tendencies as well as we were a few years ago. I do think we have digressed in these areas and I have to think assistant coaching changes has played a role.

No way to know for sure unless you attend a lot of practices and have inside knowledge. In general I think KS is much more of a detail guy than LK though, and he has a role in mind for everyone. LK seems to be more of a big picture guy to me who mainly wants guys to play hard but play loose. I just want him to put some motion back in the offense!


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[SoonerSpock]

it tells me that Kelvin is more likely to be involved more with the players while lon probably defers to his assisstants more

From the multiple practices I have attended Lon is deeply envolved with the team throughout the entire practice. Basically he does not coach by delegating to his assistance.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

Your assistants make a huge difference. Losing Henson really hurt Lon. He was head and shoulders better than anyone currently on staff. I think Lon leaned on him a lot. That crutch isn't there anymore.