When Does It Stop?????

[bluesooner17]

It makes you wonder about our generations to come. Soon we will walk around like zombies because you are afraid to offend someone. Heard this on the Channel 9 news last night. They got a hold of The King via phone to ask his thoughts and all he would say is I have some native American friends so maybe they can explain this to me.

http://www.oudaily.com/news/boomer-...cle_99712160-06a8-11e6-9913-0f5fefdd9999.html

http://www.oudaily.com/news/indigen...cle_f2618c0a-0712-11e6-8c60-9bc532a9acf9.html

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-pres...cle_6d6c7136-072b-11e6-bdd9-2bb54403a806.html

 

[scrybe]

Careful, blue. Some PC zealot will nail you for even mentioning this – much less questioning its validity.

 

[MsProudSooner]

I suspect those folks are going to find that some people, who might have been sympathetic to their POV in the past, won't agree with them on this. They hurt their cause, whatever it is, more than help it with stunts like this.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I suspect those folks are going to find that some people, who might have been sympathetic to their POV in the past, won't agree with them on this. They hurt their cause, whatever it is, more than help it with stunts like this.

Without question your point is right on. However they are still kids and idealistic and don't grasp all the ramifications of their actions. Most will be on the other side of the isle in another 20 years.

 

[sybarite]

One of the things that I learned long ago, especially while in the US Army, is that I have not encountered all ideas or cultures. When I first hear of them, it is often through the prism of writers who have been heavily-influenced by their presence in a male-dominated, white, European background.

When I first began association with African-Americans, I didn't understand their viewpoint. As I learned more, it became apparent that phrases or terms that had no meaning to me had become very significant to them since they were often used to keep them in a submissive position. I still don't know all of the ways that I can offend someone from another culture, but I have learned that it is wise to listen and hope that I learn. I may not understand why they are offended by what was intended as a benign comment, but there is a reason if you hear it from their historical perspective.

I don't really understand what the problem is with BoomerSooner. I have often thought it was less than intelligent to have a law-breaker as a symbol of the university, but it seemed harmless. But, I don't see it through the eyes of their historical perspective, and I am willing to listen until I do understand.

There is the old adage popularized by Winston Churchill, a great wartime leader, but hardly a great thinker, that the young will become conservative when older. As we have now discovered, people don't change basic thought patterns from what they were at twenty-one. It's just that they are now more conservative than the younger generation. Indeed, it is remarkable how much some thinking has changed in recent years. Gay marriage was denounced by two-thirds of the population fewer than twenty years ago. Now, attitudes have changed, and the majority accept the idea. We can change, and that is progress. It does help to achieve understanding if the mind is open.

 

[35TangoTango]

Yes, but we need to acknowledge history, not try to pretend it didn't happen.

 

[MsProudSooner]

Yes, but we need to acknowledge history, not try to pretend it didn't happen.

No one pretends it didn't happen. The history is out there for everyone to see.

I didn't read all those articles. But if they have a beef, it's with people in government who decided to make the land available for land runs not the Boomers and the Sooners who made the land run and/or maybe snuck in a little early. Which does bring up a question I don't know the answer to. Were 'indigenous people' allowed to participate in the land runs?

 

[bluesooner17]

sybarite, I agree with what your saying and others have said. I believe what the people scream are talking about is called out in the following:
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208806115
If this is what they are talking about then state that, because there other ways to use the words as in:
"he should have done it sooner" or "I would sooner stay" and "short for baby boomers" so the words themselves are offensive, but it is an individual interpretation. This could be said with quite a few words so is the person using them in a different meaning wrong, because someone will not revisit the words in the present or future rather the past? If used in an inflammatory way then I believe they would have a case, but if it isn't leave it alone.

 

[MsProudSooner]

sybarite, I agree with what your saying and others have said. I believe what the people scream are talking about is called out in the following:
http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208806115
If this is what they are talking about then state that, because there other ways to use the words as in:
"he should have done it sooner" or "I would sooner stay" and "short for baby boomers" so the words themselves are offensive, but it is an individual interpretation. This could be said with quite a few words so is the person using them in a different meaning wrong, because someone will not revisit the words in the present or future rather the past? If used in an inflammatory way then I believe they would have a case, but if it isn't leave it alone.

That guys comments make no sense to me.

 

[tycat947]

They will have to start with the state first. Oklahoma is "The Sooner State".

 

[MsProudSooner]

You have to wonder about those folks. I understand being young and wanting to change the world. When you see an injustice, you want to right it, protest it. But do they protest the fact that the cost of college rises much faster than the cost of living? No. Do they protest the fact that American corporations are hemorrhaging jobs overseas like crazy? No. Do they protest the fact that Oklahoma school districts are honestly considering 4 day school weeks? No. They protest Boomer Sooner. They seriously need to rethink their priorities.

 

[Stringmusic]

The student activists are chiseling on a very small piece of history. At one time almost all of the state of Oklahoma (or Oklahoma Territory) was given over to habitat for indigenous people. The Federal government decided to open it up for settlement and thus, the land run. etc. Maybe they should take their grievance to Wash DC and leave OU alone. The Boomers were law abiding and waited for the cannon signal (the Boom) and the Sooners sneaked over ahead of time and staked out the nicest parcels of land for themselves.

 

[womenssports]

Well said, Syb. Agree, Tango. I don't believe as Churchill that people become
more conservative as they grow older. Matter of fact, I would say it was the opposite. The older you get and, if you take the time, you learn about so
many injustices. I can't imagine that anyone who grew up in Oklahoma does not know about the landrun and that there were Boomers and Sooners. And that it the origin of OU's Sooners and Boomer Sooner chant. I actually
always had a little thought in the back of my head that being called a "Sooner" really wasn't a good thing.

Too many people seem to feel that the genocide of the Native American people is ancient history. I was born in 1950 in OK., that was only 63 years after the Dawes Act which took land from the Indians, some of the tribes actually made a treaty with the government to move here. This resettlement ended in 1880. 7 years later the Dawes act because whites decided they could actually use this land after all. And, no, Native Americans could not participate in the land run.

The thing is Native Americans ARE still being taken advantage of, their treaties are still being broken and they are marginalized. Their land is being polluted, their rights aren't recognized and this may seem symbolic to some BUT I can see that Boomer Sooner and Sooner would be really offensive and a continuing denial of any wrongdoing to the Native Americans.

Through my maternal grandmother my mother could have been on the Dawes Roll and possibly, I could have been. There is a question if my great-great grandmother was 50 or 40 percent Cherokee. The thing is that people were embarrassed and/or afraid to admit their Native American heritage. There was a huge prejudice against Native Americans at that time and there still is.

Do any of you remember Big Mountain and the protests against the government and Kerr-McGee? It had to do with relocating the Dineh (traditional name of the Navajo) from land which had been occupied by the
Hopi and the Dineh without regard to borders. It is actually a long story that dates back awhile, I just remember that the Hopi wanted to lease and the Dineh didn't and the Hopi won. The land the Dineh were relocated to qualified
as a candidate for the superfund clean-up. Part of this radioactive land was in Chambers, Az., and instead of cleaning it up, the government bought it on the cheap and relocated these Dineh who did not want to go to Chambers.
I remember parts of it because it was when I was becoming more politically aware. I think Native American children played in radioactive waste both from spills and also from those who lived near where the mining was done.
Only lately, the government took land to sell to 3 corporations, I believe, an Australian and English and some how an Iranian corp. Ok, found this link.....and it is not only about Native American land but sacred land and it is also about our environment. http://crooksandliars.com/2015/07/oak-flat-latest-land-grab-native-americans

And I am quite sure these young people have many issues on their minds and with which they are involved, but they are dealing with a history which to this day invalidates them. Words matter and if we do not acknowledge our history, and actually the present as this raping of Native American lands continues today, as does the taking of their rights, and the treatment of them by whites. We are talking about present day racism and bigotry which are keeping Native Americans down. MAYBE we should have "WHITEY" as a mascot and dress her/him up as some kind of clown. Or we could have
"Redneck" (a term, I do not use) and have a white woman/man as a mascot
with stereotypical dress and talk and attitude. (yes, and I don't believe a person's education, nor grammar, nor dress, nor money determines hers/his
value and that is why I hate all the racist, bigoted words including redneck and trailer trash.)

And people who benefited from the land run, well some are still here. To some this may be a small deal but
believe if you study issues that this is relatively recent and shouldn't be celebrated by a University.

So good on the Native Americans organization at OU.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Actually much of the land that was turned over to settlers in the land runs was once the property of the Cherokee Tribe. Unfortunately they made the decision to side with the confederacy in the civil war - at least partly because they owned slaves - like many plantation owners throughout the south. If I recall, the last general to surrender in the war was Stand Waite, a Cherokee leader, right here in Oklahoma.

The price they paid was the loss of the western part of the land they controlled - which was called the Cherokee Outlet - and site of one of the largest land runs.

I admire the Native Americans and consider the way they were treated as one of the most embarrassing activities the US was ever involved in. We lied to them, committed atrocities - including the murder of women and children, destroyed a way of life, and violated human rights on a massive scale. All because whites wanted their land and property.

But their loss of the Cherokee Outlet was simply a result of a bad decision to side with the South in the civil war. A number of Cherokees wanted to stay neutral, but the main tribe decided otherwise. Those kinds of decisions have consequences.

War is a nasty thing. It results in so many unfortunate things that you would think we would realize by now there are much better ways to settle disputes, but nations still have many who grab onto the idea of war at the slightest sign of disagreements. The more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[MsProudSooner]

My home county was part of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Land Run.

http://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=CH031

When I was a kid, each county took turns celebrating the anniversary of the Land Run over a Friday, Saturday and Sunday near the anniversary. They called it Frontier Days, if I remember correctly. In order to raise money for the celebration, the hosting town declared that all the men had to grow a beard. If you didn't want to grow a beard, you had to pay for an exemption. You were supposed to wear a button if you had plaid for your exemption. Someone was named the sheriff for Frontier days and a 'jail' was set up on the courthouse square. If the sheriff caught you without your button, he could haul you off to jail and you had to pay a fine. If was great fun for the kids to follow the sheriff around and see who he was going to arrest. We would spy someone w/o a button and run find the sheriff as fast as we could.

There was a parade and a rodeo and a dance. Great fun if you were a kid growing up in the 1950's.

I understand why Native Americans feel short changed. My ex's family is part Cherokee. His grandfather and great uncle got 160 acre allotments near Claremore. His grandfather lost his in the depression because he couldn't pay the taxes. His great uncle was able to keep his and it's still in his family. They always thought it unfair that they lost their land. My comment was that everyone has to pay their taxes.

But as the title of this thread says, when does it stop? Most of my ancestry is English, Irish and Scottish, with some French and German thrown in. Where is the group that I join to protest whatever drove my earliest family members to leave and come to America? I could be living in the South of France but no, I live in Oklahoma! Someone needs to pay! (tongue firmly in cheek),

 

[SoonerinNC]

I'm sure that I don't know how it feels to be discriminated because of my race. The closest I came was when attending a NAACP party during their convention. Basically I was tolerated but I don't think hated. It probably helped that my African American friend that was with me introduced me as "this is _____ and he's alright." Code words that took me a bit to catch up on.

I don't have a clue whether any of my ancestors treated a minority badly or not. Even if they did it had nothing to do with me and I don't spend a lot of time feeling guilty about it. I certainly had no control over their behavior.

I have found that people of different races, different religions, different occupations differ very little. Some are outstanding, a few, sometimes very few are just bad. Being a coach helps you become more color blind.

I have always had a lot of faith in young people. When I had my first human resources responsibility I introduced a lot of young people into the business in places where they had not been used. And most of them excelled beyond expectations.

I think young people of today are just as good as any generation. They feel more entitled and seem to be a little more inclined to feel a victim. Politicians are largely responsible for that.

Really we have a choice. We can spend a lot of time searching for code words and feel sorry for ourselves but I like the story of Dr. Ben Carson who is a renowned surgeon. His mother refused to allow him to feel a victim and pushed him to take advantage of his exceptional intelligence and skills.

 

[annabelle]

You have to wonder about those folks. I understand being young and wanting to change the world. When you see an injustice, you want to right it, protest it. But do they protest the fact that the cost of college rises much faster than the cost of living? No. Do they protest the fact that American corporations are hemorrhaging jobs overseas like crazy? No. Do they protest the fact that Oklahoma school districts are honestly considering 4 day school weeks? No. They protest Boomer Sooner. They seriously need to rethink their priorities.

+1

 

[soonerstar]

You have to wonder about those folks. I understand being young and wanting to change the world. When you see an injustice, you want to right it, protest it. But do they protest the fact that the cost of college rises much faster than the cost of living? No. Do they protest the fact that American corporations are hemorrhaging jobs overseas like crazy? No. Do they protest the fact that Oklahoma school districts are honestly considering 4 day school weeks? No. They protest Boomer Sooner. They seriously need to rethink their priorities.

+2

 

[SoonerSpock]

My home county was part of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Land Run.

http://www.okhistory.org/publications/enc/entry.php?entry=CH031

When I was a kid, each county took turns celebrating the anniversary of the Land Run over a Friday, Saturday and Sunday near the anniversary. They called it Frontier Days, if I remember correctly. In order to raise money for the celebration, the hosting town declared that all the men had to grow a beard. If you didn't want to grow a beard, you had to pay for an exemption. You were supposed to wear a button if you had plaid for your exemption. Someone was named the sheriff for Frontier days and a 'jail' was set up on the courthouse square. If the sheriff caught you without your button, he could haul you off to jail and you had to pay a fine. If was great fun for the kids to follow the sheriff around and see who he was going to arrest. We would spy someone w/o a button and run find the sheriff as fast as we could.

There was a parade and a rodeo and a dance. Great fun if you were a kid growing up in the 1950's.

I understand why Native Americans feel short changed. My ex's family is part Cherokee. His grandfather and great uncle got 160 acre allotments near Claremore. His grandfather lost his in the depression because he couldn't pay the taxes. His great uncle was able to keep his and it's still in his family. They always thought it unfair that they lost their land. My comment was that everyone has to pay their taxes.

But as the title of this thread says, when does it stop? Most of my ancestry is English, Irish and Scottish, with some French and German thrown in. Where is the group that I join to protest whatever drove my earliest family members to leave and come to America? I could be living in the South of France but no, I live in Oklahoma! Someone needs to pay! (tongue firmly in cheek),

Here!!! Here!!! As a native American and a roll member of the Choctaw Nation and I fully understand the wrongs my ancestors have experienced. But life isn't, never has been and will never be fair. We need to live in the present not the past.

Today's students that are offended by the Boomer Sooner chant are looking for reasons they are discriminated against. They have the "poor pitiful me" complex. They are looking for something to complain about or have been feed the political correctness viewpoint.

This political correct mentality of today's culture has done everything possible to take the speaking of the truth from dialog for fear of offending anyone. This just another extension of the mentality that those in the present must atone for the transgressions of the past. Bull crap. We need to live in today and learn from those transgressions but we are not obligated atone for them.

Today Boomer Sooner is a school chant derived from the school fight song. It means nothing more. Those that perceive Boomer Sooner perpetuates racial violence either have the "poor pitiful me" syndrome or are just plain stupid. They are looking for something that is not there in today's world. Boomer Sooner!!!!

 

[sybarite]

Let me urge some caution for future discussions that you may encounter. PC has become one of those code words or terms. It arrives with the impression that you are unwilling to accept ideas other than your own. Let's use another thing that PC should stand for---politeness and courtesy. If you wish to be polite or courteous, you are probably not concerned with the limitations imposed by political correctness.

I have not yet heard exactly what the concern is about Sooners or Boomers from their viewpoint. As such, I refrain from making any judgement of whether their activities are appropriate. If I were to discuss it with them, I may find that it merits consideration. Until then, I will simply watch what they say to see if their position becomes clearer.