When Does It Stop?????

This news article provides the most comprehensive account of the circumstances involved in the protest to the use of Boomer Sooner that I have seen to date. As a member of the Native American community and have talked with several in our community we are in concurrence that Indigenize OU does not speak for the majority of our community only a small minority of us.

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-pres...cle_cceb6668-6635-11e5-a43a-6b2022e9ca09.html
 
It would be nice if some people would replace their concerns about PC with some CS (common sense). There are many more important things to be concerned with.

Our young people are bright and as good as any generation. But they need to grow up a bit more. They don't have it tough at all compared to their parents and grandparents. I'm not saying that they should be abused but we have pampered them and sheltered them to the point that they are living more in Disney Channel and texting than in the real world.

And if you watch even Disney channel you will see how bumbling and inept they portray adults. No wonder many do not respect authority any more.
 
I stick by what I wrote and though the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole and Creek did side with the South which caused some animosity
the main reason the land was taken away was because the land was originally considered something the white men did not want and they would keep the Indians together on these lands. Then white men were having trouble and their was a depression and they wanted these lands for farming.

As far as PC, I understand some use that as a slam but to me PC means
looking at a situation and doing what is right and I do not mind the term being applied even though someone is doing it to slam me personally or as a slam against something I believe in or just using it negatively. As far as some Native Americans not being for what the OU group is, that only makes sense. No one group can speak for everyone. I understand the group's perception and anyone saying that Boomer Sooner originated from anything but the land run is being disingenuous. Because it has become synonymous with the University of Oklahoma or some people call us the Sooner state, does not take away the recent history of what was done in the late 19th century and certainly had immediate consequences through the 40's and those consequences have resulted in many Native Americans today still being discriminated against, living in poverty, with no hope and since Native Americans seem to be genetically prone to alcoholism, alcohol being something it appears was introduced by the white man, there is a rather large problem with alcoholicism among Native Americans. It appears many (in Oklahoma anyway have also turned to something worst - inhaling paint.) MANY have had a almost impossible time assimilating into the WHITE world. And as far as being given allotments after the Dawes act, this hurt them and did not help them. They were expected to act as whites, live by rules of a government enforced upon them and which they did not understand...including the payment of taxes. And I can understand them not wanting to pay taxes, since they did not benefit from them. ( ANYONE on here saying anything about THE TOP one-tenth percent owning a much as the bottom 90percent in the U.S. Obviously, the top 9 and 9/10 percent own the other AND THAT THOSE people do not pay taxes either LEGALLY through loopholes that their power and money have pushed through or ILLEGALLY for which they are not prosecuted or, if they are, it is a tiny fine and a settlement for taxes they should have paid which is negotiated by their attorneys and is not what they actually owe? Don't believe I have read anyone complaining so should I just assume something about you and what you believe?
NO!

BUT to the point of Boomer and Sooner, just because it does not offend
you(whether you are Native American or not) and you do not recognize how they feel does not mean they are being victims but rather the opposite. They are fighting a larger fight for themselves and other Native Americans AND to say that they should be concerned with issues that you are concerned with is short-sighted. For one thing, who is to say they aren't? Who is to say these people don't actually vote Democrat to try and correct some of the mess this country has become based on greed. AND not saying Democrats can't be greedy to, it is just they have a different base and do believe in public schools, public prisons not ones for profit, are not trying to destroy the postal service because they want everything privatized so they or their friends can make money off it and the rest of us will make smaller wages, and the middle class will continue to be decimated. BUT as an Indigenous group, they are working
on the issues particular to indigenous people that no one else will address and they can still as an indigenous group be working to on other issues of this country and also work in another group on those issues. THEY are not confined to belong to one political group. A person can be a member of
EWG, a union, a Pro-choice group and as a member of those different groups
the message will be one of the group of the particular group speaking but as an individual each may have many messages and can even promote issues of which they are not a group.

AND I will not post anything more on this not even to back-up any facts I have presented that someone may refute about the land run and the Indians losing their land because they fought with the South and had slaves (which I know created some animosity with the U.S. Govt. and I don't believe they should have had slaves.....I imagine their reason for fighting with the South was more complex but I will not go there, will just say it was about slaves......still do not believe that is the reason the land was taken.)
So criticize, rant, be condescending, get personal and I will not respond. We all have different opinions, for different reasons. I accept that. Will accept that some people will always be bigots, because of their dna, what they have been taught, things to which they have been exposed. It is not my place to judge anyone as an individual just because I may recognize someone is a bigot does not mean I am judging them as an individual, because of the simple fact that I have not and could not walk in their shoes.

FINALLY, I recognize that Syb is not taking a position because he says he does not know enough about it. I respect that in anyone. I do not know anything about this group BUT my personal belief and I do not identify as Native American because I have not had the experience though I know I am part Native American and probably more than I know from what I understand about my father's side. And I would be proud to call myself Native American
and do not feel embarrassed to be any parts of the ethnic and racial groups from which I have come. (only know I am caucasian but believe we are all one race anyway, but as a descriptor, yes white) AND I am not for what the group is doing because I feel personally discriminated against. And as far as their being wars and discrimination and slaves for centuries before the U.S. existed, yes there were BUT the latter part of the 19th century forward is too recent to be
overlooked just because these types of expansion and wars had been going on since the beginning of time.
 
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sybarite said:
Let me urge some caution for future discussions that you may encounter. PC has become one of those code words or terms. It arrives with the impression that you are unwilling to accept ideas other than your own. Let's use another thing that PC should stand for---politeness and courtesy. If you wish to be polite or courteous, you are probably not concerned with the limitations imposed by political correctness.

I have not yet heard exactly what the concern is about Sooners or Boomers from their viewpoint. As such, I refrain from making any judgement of whether their activities are appropriate. If I were to discuss it with them, I may find that it merits consideration. Until then, I will simply watch what they say to see if their position becomes clearer.
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Well said Syb. Love your approach and completely agree with your take on "PC".
 
womenssports said:
I stick by what I wrote and though the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole and Creek did side with the South which caused some animosity
the main reason the land was taken away was because the land was originally considered something the white men did not want and they would keep the Indians together on these lands. Then white men were having trouble and their was a depression and they wanted these lands for farming.

As far as PC, I understand some use that as a slam but to me PC means
looking at a situation and doing what is right and I do not mind the term being applied even though someone is doing it to slam me personally or as a slam against something I believe in or just using it negatively. As far as some Native Americans not being for what the OU group is, that only makes sense. No one group can speak for everyone. I understand the group's perception and anyone saying that Boomer Sooner originated from anything but the land run is being disingenuous. Because it has become synonymous with the University of Oklahoma or some people call us the Sooner state, does not take away the recent history of what was done in the late 19th century and certainly had immediate consequences through the 40's and those consequences have resulted in many Native Americans today still being discriminated against, living in poverty, with no hope and since Native Americans seem to be genetically prone to alcoholism, alcohol being something it appears was introduced by the white man, there is a rather large problem with alcoholicism among Native Americans. It appears many (in Oklahoma anyway have also turned to something worst - inhaling paint.) MANY have had a almost impossible time assimilating into the WHITE world. And as far as being given allotments after the Dawes act, this hurt them and did not help them. They were expected to act as whites, live by rules of a government enforced upon them and which they did not understand...including the payment of taxes. And I can understand them not wanting to pay taxes, since they did not benefit from them. ( ANYONE on here saying anything about THE TOP one-tenth percent owning a much as the bottom 90percent in the U.S. Obviously, the top 9 and 9/10 percent own the other AND THAT THOSE people do not pay taxes either LEGALLY through loopholes that their power and money have pushed through or ILLEGALLY for which they are not prosecuted or, if they are, it is a tiny fine and a settlement for taxes they should have paid which is negotiated by their attorneys and is not what they actually owe.)

BUT to the point of Boomer and Sooner, just because it does not offend
you(whether you are Native American or not) and you do not recognize how they feel does not mean they are being victims but rather the opposite. They are fighting a larger fight for themselves and other Native Americans AND to say that they should be concerned with issues that you are concerned with is short-sighted. For one thing, who is to say they aren't? Who is to say these people don't actually vote Democrat to try and correct some of the mess this country has become based on greed. AND not saying Democrats can't be greedy to, it is just they have a different base and do believe in public schools, public prisons not ones for profit, are not trying to destroy the postal service because they want everything privatized so they or their friends can make money off it and the rest of us will make smaller wages, and the middle class will continue to be decimated. BUT as an Indigenous group, they are working
on the issues particular to indigenous people that no one else will address and they can still as an indigenous group be working to on other issues of this country and also work in another group on those issues. THEY are not confined to belong to one political group. A person can be a member of
EWG, a union, a Pro-choice group and as a member of those different groups
the message will be one of the group of the particular group speaking but as an individual each may have many messages and can even promote issues of which they are not a group.

AND I will post anything more on this not even to back-up any facts I have presented that someone may refute about the land run and the Indians losing their land because they fought with the South and had slaves (which I know created some animosity with the U.S. Govt. and I don't believe they should have had slaves.....I imagine their reason for fighting with the South was more complex but I will not go there, will just say it was about slaves......still do not believe that is the reason the land was taken.)
So criticize, rant, be condescending, get personal and I will not respond. We all have different opinions, for different reasons. I accept that. Will accept that some people will always be bigots, because of their dna, what they have been taught, things to which they have been exposed. It is not my place to judge anyone as an individual just because I may recognize someone is a bigot does not mean I am judging them as an individual, because of the simple fact that I have not and could not walk in their shoes.

FINALLY, I recognize that Syb not taking a position because he says he does not know enough about it. I respect that in anyone. I do not know anything about this group BUT my personal belief and I do not identify as Native American because I have not had the experience though I know I am part Native American and probably more than I know from what I understand about my father's side. And I would be proud to call myself Native American
and do not feel embarrassed to be any parts of the ethnic and racial groups from which I have come. (only know I am caucasian but believe we are all one race anyway, but as a descriptor, yes white) AND I am not for what the group is doing because I feel personally discriminated against. And as far as their being wars and discrimination and slaves for centuries before the U.S. existed, yes there were BUT the latter part of the 19th century forward is too recent to be
overlooked just because these types of expansion and wars had been going on since the beginning of time.
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You should wait until you are old enough to take world history to try to write something like this!
 
scrybe said:
Careful, blue. Some PC zealot will nail you for even mentioning this – much less questioning its validity.
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To be honest, I never thought of "PC" as being polite and courteous. I always thought of it as an unwritten set of double-standards. And if you're on the wrong side of it, there's hell to pay.

Just look at what happened to Brett Favre after some ESPN-aired awards show. He got reamed in many circles for not acting "thrilled" for B./C. Jenner's life change. I don't recall him saying anything about Jenner, but Favre got ripped for apparently just giving the appearance on TV to disapprove of Jenner.

If you want to think of a PC case gone amok, I give you the "Duke Lacrosse Case." Watch the 30-for-30 special on it. Those kids were almost railroaded for (A) a renegade DA"s re-election and (B) being guilty of "white privilege." So it became okay to many that the could have gone to prison despite NO speck of DNA evidence (and they also had cell phone records showing two of the three kids weren't even at the house at the time), because they somehow deserved it due the "privilege" issue. I don't see how any thinking person could be okay with that.

That's how I see "PC" at least.
 
NMSooner'80 said:
To be honest, I never thought of "PC" as being polite and courteous. I always thought of it as an unwritten set of double-standards. And if you're on the wrong side of it, there's hell to pay.

Just look at what happened to Brett Favre after some ESPN-aired awards show. He got reamed in many circles for not acting "thrilled" for B./C. Jenner's life change. I don't recall him saying anything about Jenner, but Favre got ripped for apparently just giving the appearance on TV to disapprove of Jenner.

If you want to think of a PC case gone amok, I give you the "Duke Lacrosse Case." Watch the 30-for-30 special on it. Those kids were almost railroaded for (A) a renegade DA"s re-election and (B) being guilty of "white privilege." So it became okay to many that the could have gone to prison despite NO speck of DNA evidence (and they also had cell phone records showing two of the three kids weren't even at the house at the time), because they somehow deserved it due the "privilege" issue. I don't see how any thinking person could be okay with that.

That's how I see "PC" at least.
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Good post....I think. Just not sure whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with what I posted. :ez-laugh:
 
But as the title of this thread says, when does it stop? Most of my ancestry is English, Irish and Scottish, with some French and German thrown in. Where is the group that I join to protest whatever drove my earliest family members to leave and come to America? I could be living in the South of France but no, I live in Oklahoma! Someone needs to pay! (tongue firmly in cheek),

:facepalm

When does it stop?

When the feelings and beliefs of Native Americans are not marginalized and condescended to like the above comment.

When people who present a valid side to an issue, have facts to back them up and present their opinions in a civilized manner, are not chastised for their views and told to "grow up before you join adult conversation"

As a Native American, I am not sure how I feel about this specific issue. I DO know that it makes me angry when white people, yes I said it, demean Natives and pooh pooh their concerns and dismiss us as being petty.

My culture is my culture and I, for one, am tired of white people telling me that my culture doesn't matter. That I should be "proud of my heritage". Do not chastise me for what I feel. Do not tell me how I should feel. You know nothing about what it is like to be a Native American in today's society. Black people have their own separate experience. I do not know what it is like to be Black in America. I DO know what it is like to be Indian in America. I do not presume to tell my Black friends how to feel or be. Why is it ok for people to tell Natives how to feel or be?

It astounds me that white people insist upon justifying their viewpoints with condescending humor or irrelevent comparisions instead of actually looking at what the Native students are saying. Its probably more about the attitudes of whites towards Natives and the fact that the actuality of the 89er land run is white-washed and justified than it is about Boomer and Sooner.

LISTEN to what they are saying instead of dismissing them as being young.

The comments towards womenssports regarding age are a perfect example of condescension and superiority. I fully support womenssports.

Another thing, I have never disagreed with MsProudSooner more than I have in this thread. As an Indian, this thread will forever color my feelings about some of the posters on this thread.

Now, you may not care, and thats ok. But it is what it is.

I do not apologize for my post; however, I am done with this topic. Yes, its an argument no one can win...UNLESS someone actually HEARS what these students are saying and UNLESS white people are willing to actually participate in HONEST discussion without feeling the need to chastise, demean and ignore.

Finally, while I am not apologizing for my post and my use of "white people", I must clarify. Never, in my 54 years of living, have I EVER referred to "white people" in that disgusted tone of voice. In fact, I am half white and if you were to see me, you would probably see white. But, after the year I have had, the personal experiences of white people telling me that my culture and way of life does not matter and that it is not good enough...or I am not good enough, I am now using the term "white people" in that tone...and I do not like it.
 
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giraffespots said:
But as the title of this thread says, when does it stop? Most of my ancestry is English, Irish and Scottish, with some French and German thrown in. Where is the group that I join to protest whatever drove my earliest family members to leave and come to America? I could be living in the South of France but no, I live in Oklahoma! Someone needs to pay! (tongue firmly in cheek),

:facepalm

When does it stop?

When the feelings and beliefs of Native Americans are not marginalized and condescended to like the above comment.

When people who present a valid side to an issue, have facts to back them up and present their opinions in a civilized manner, are not chastised for their views and told to "grow up before you join adult conversation"

As a Native American, I am not sure how I feel about specific issue. I DO know that it makes me angry when white people, yes I said it, demean Natives and pooh pooh their concerns and dismiss us as being petty.

My culture is my culture and I, for one, am tired of white people telling me that my culture doesn't matter. That I should be "proud of my heritage". Do not chastise me for what I feel. Do not tell me how I should feel. You know nothing about what it is like to be a Native American in today's society. Black people have their own separate experience. I do not know what it is like to be Black in America. I DO know what it is like to the Indian in America. I do not presume to tell my Black friends how to feel or be. Why is it ok for people to tell Natives how to feel for be?

It astounds me that white people insist upon justifying their viewpoints with condescending humor or irrelevent comparisions instead of actually looking at what the Native students are saying. Its probably more about the attitudes of whites towards Natives and the fact that the actuality of the 89er land run is white-washed and justified than it is about Boomer and Sooner.

LISTEN to what they are saying instead of dismissing them as being young.

The comments towards womenssports regarding age are a perfect example of condescension and superiority. I fully support womenssports.

Another thing, I have never disagreed with MsProudSooner more than I have in this thread. As an Indian, this thread will forever color my feelings about some of the posters on this thread.

Now, you may not care, and thats ok. But it is what it is.

I do not apologize for my post; however, I am done with this topic. Yes, its an argument no one can win...UNLESS someone actually HEARS what these students are saying and UNLESS white people are willing to actually participate in HONEST discussion without feeling the need to chastise, demean and ignore.

Finally, while I am not apologizing for my post and my use of "white people", I must clarify. Never, in my 54 years of living, have I EVER referred to "white people" in that disgusted tone of voice. In fact, I am half white and if you were to see me, you would probably see white. But, after the year I have had, the personal experiences of white people telling me that my culture and way of life does not matter and that it is not good enough...or I am not good enough, I am now using the term "white people" in that tone...and I do not like it.
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Great post!

I understand the original thought of this post refers to Native Americans but with regards to the highlighted line above, I'd like to add "And any other minority!".
 
Historically, the term. "politically correct," has been used for different political extremes at different times. The only thing consistent is that it has always had a negative connotation. It is always used as something undesirable. Now, let's see what it means currently:

Simple Definition of politically correct

: agreeing with the idea that people should be careful to not use language or behave in a way that could offend a particular group of people

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionar
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Full Definition of politically correct

: conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated
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Now, I have a question. For what reason would you want to use language or behavior that was intended to offend a particular group of people (i.e., sex or race)?
 
giraffespots said:
But as the title of this thread says, when does it stop? Most of my ancestry is English, Irish and Scottish, with some French and German thrown in. Where is the group that I join to protest whatever drove my earliest family members to leave and come to America? I could be living in the South of France but no, I live in Oklahoma! Someone needs to pay! (tongue firmly in cheek),

:facepalm

When does it stop?

When the feelings and beliefs of Native Americans are not marginalized and condescended to like the above comment.

When people who present a valid side to an issue, have facts to back them up and present their opinions in a civilized manner, are not chastised for their views and told to "grow up before you join adult conversation"

As a Native American, I am not sure how I feel about this specific issue. I DO know that it makes me angry when white people, yes I said it, demean Natives and pooh pooh their concerns and dismiss us as being petty.

My culture is my culture and I, for one, am tired of white people telling me that my culture doesn't matter. That I should be "proud of my heritage". Do not chastise me for what I feel. Do not tell me how I should feel. You know nothing about what it is like to be a Native American in today's society. Black people have their own separate experience. I do not know what it is like to be Black in America. I DO know what it is like to be Indian in America. I do not presume to tell my Black friends how to feel or be. Why is it ok for people to tell Natives how to feel or be?

It astounds me that white people insist upon justifying their viewpoints with condescending humor or irrelevent comparisions instead of actually looking at what the Native students are saying. Its probably more about the attitudes of whites towards Natives and the fact that the actuality of the 89er land run is white-washed and justified than it is about Boomer and Sooner.

LISTEN to what they are saying instead of dismissing them as being young.

The comments towards womenssports regarding age are a perfect example of condescension and superiority. I fully support womenssports.

Another thing, I have never disagreed with MsProudSooner more than I have in this thread. As an Indian, this thread will forever color my feelings about some of the posters on this thread.

Now, you may not care, and thats ok. But it is what it is.

I do not apologize for my post; however, I am done with this topic. Yes, its an argument no one can win...UNLESS someone actually HEARS what these students are saying and UNLESS white people are willing to actually participate in HONEST discussion without feeling the need to chastise, demean and ignore.

Finally, while I am not apologizing for my post and my use of "white people", I must clarify. Never, in my 54 years of living, have I EVER referred to "white people" in that disgusted tone of voice. In fact, I am half white and if you were to see me, you would probably see white. But, after the year I have had, the personal experiences of white people telling me that my culture and way of life does not matter and that it is not good enough...or I am not good enough, I am now using the term "white people" in that tone...and I do not like it.
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If the feelings and believes of the Native American people go no deeper than Booner and Sooner than when does it stop. Anyone who is as old as I am (78) and has parents and grandparents who lived in Oklahoma probably has some native american blood in their background. Mine is Chickasaw and proud of it. My statement about world history still stands. Wealthy, powerful people have always run the world! Do we bulldoze Rome because the Romans were really not nice people! Does everyone who has the last name of Jackson change it because it does have a slave connotation. Millions and millions of people have and are being persecuted. The level of education offered on Native American reservations is minimal to say the least. Do you sing "Onward Christan Sholder" wow the crusades were something were they not!. Should all the Germans still be in prison? History is History you can learn from it but you cannot change it. There are plenty of Native American issues these kids can address the one they chose unfortunately is not a good one.Why don't they spend a few summers teaching on a reservation? Go back far enough (some only want to go back as far as fits their need) and everyone has an issue. The hope is going forward not going backward.
 
gosooner2 said:
If the feelings and believes of the Native American people go no deeper than Booner and Sooner than when does it stop. Anyone who is as old as I am (78) and has parents and grandparents who lived in Oklahoma probably has some native american blood in their background. Mine is Chickasaw and proud of it. My statement about world history still stands. Wealthy, powerful people have always run the world! Do we bulldoze Rome because the Romans were really not nice people! Does everyone who has the last name of Jackson change it because it does have a slave connotation. Millions and millions of people have and are being persecuted. The level of education offered on Native American reservations is minimal to say the least. Do you sing "Onward Christan Sholder" wow the crusades were something were they not!. Should all the Germans still be in prison? History is History you can learn from it but you cannot change it. There are plenty of Native American issues these kids can address the one they chose unfortunately is not a good one.Why don't they spend a few summers teaching on a reservation? Go back far enough (some only want to go back as far as fits their need) and everyone has an issue. The hope is going forward not going backward.
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You made some really good points in your post, gosooner, and I agree with much of what you said. However, I would think the part I highlighted (bolded) should serve as a reminder to some of us just how small-minded and outright silly this "Boomer Sooner" argument really is.

There are millions of people in the world today that are being seriously persecuted. Native Americans are not part of those groups, and especially not here in Oklahoma. I am part Choctaw; I grew up among American Indians and the majority of my relatives, friends and neighbors also possess a degree of Indian blood. Each of us has the same rights, privileges and opportunities to succeed as any other American citizen.

The millions of people throughout the Middle East, Africa, Asia and even parts of Europe who are being butchered and killed for their religious beliefs or refusal to bow down to tyrants are the truly persecuted. Thank God we have been spared that, at least so far, in America. Americans of all races are treated equally and with respect, for the most part, but many of us don't seem to realize it.
 
gosooner2 said:
If the feelings and believes of the Native American people go no deeper than Booner and Sooner than when does it stop. Anyone who is as old as I am (78) and has parents and grandparents who lived in Oklahoma probably has some native american blood in their background. Mine is Chickasaw and proud of it. My statement about world history still stands. Wealthy, powerful people have always run the world! Do we bulldoze Rome because the Romans were really not nice people! Does everyone who has the last name of Jackson change it because it does have a slave connotation. Millions and millions of people have and are being persecuted. The level of education offered on Native American reservations is minimal to say the least. Do you sing "Onward Christan Sholder" wow the crusades were something were they not!. Should all the Germans still be in prison? History is History you can learn from it but you cannot change it. There are plenty of Native American issues these kids can address the one they chose unfortunately is not a good one.Why don't they spend a few summers teaching on a reservation? Go back far enough (some only want to go back as far as fits their need) and everyone has an issue. The hope is going forward not going backward.
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My question to you is: when does WHAT stop? When do people stop discriminating and marginalizing other races? When do persecuted people stop trying to become UNpersecuted? When do people take their heads out of the sand and realize that this is still a huge issue?

Scrybe, if you think that in America we are all treated equally and fair, I just have to shake my head. Have you heard about the Black Lives Matter movement? Or have you dismissed that as being unneccessary?

Gosooner2, yes this is a far deeper issue than just Boomer and Sooner. And, you are correct in that we cannot change history. HOWEVER, unless we progress as a society, correct our mistakes and change our actions, we will be doomed to repeat history. Its not about trying to change history. Its not even about the historical treatment of Native Americans. Its about what is going on NOW.

You said millions of people have been persecuted. Yes, and they ALL rebelled at some point to come out of persecution OR they succumbed and disappeared. What these students are doing is trying to raise awareness that WE ARE HERE. WE MATTER TOO. We do not want to disappear.

Instead of dismissing these students as misguided, why don't we look at ourselves, take a deep breath and remind ourselves that its not about punishing anyone or retribution or blaming. Its about validation of the struggle.

What is so scary about engaging in open dialogue about misconceptions, prejudices and mistreatment? We realize that we cannot change the past. We don't want to change the past, we want to change the future.

If those who are "in power" do nothing, it is up to the general population to initiate change. YOU, who are on this board, are part of the general population.

These students started something to initiate dialogue. So, I am just helping them out by engaging in dialogue in a place that I love to go to every day.

Yesterday, I was angry. Today, I am not. Today, I am a little saddened by the level of resistance on this board. A board dedicated to WOMEN'S basketball. If you are white (and I realize that 95% of Oklahomans clarify their race by saying "My grandma was xxx Indian"), but if you are white, was raised in the white culture, and most of your friends are white (yes, I know, everyone has a black friend somewhere), you cannot know what it is like to be Native, or black or any minority.

The most you can do is try to see what that minority is living through. I cannot know what it is like to be a black person. But I know what it is like to be in a room full of whites and hear racial jokes...all because I "look" like them. Or to be at a pow wow and have the looks from young ones who think I am white. Or to have my granddaughter fall out of her chair when someone told her I was white because I always talk about our Native heritage and culture. Or to have a white woman ask ME what race does my teenage son identify with when he was sitting right there (again I "look" white and my son "looks" black).

I could go on and on. But, I won't because you are probably tired of me. Most of the posters on this thread will no longer post on this thread because it is to uncomfortable. I am sorry for making anyone uncomfortable, but we as humans don't make changes until we become uncomfortable.

Also, sorry about the rambling nature of this post. My thoughts just came out and I did not edit this at all.
 
scrybe said:
The millions of people throughout the Middle East, Africa, Asia and even parts of Europe who are being butchered and killed for their religious beliefs or refusal to bow down to tyrants are the truly persecuted. Thank God we have been spared that, at least so far, in America. Americans of all races are treated equally and with respect, for the most part, but many of us don't seem to realize it.
Click to expand...

No, we have NOT been spared that here in America. However, we have supposedly grown from our past of hanging blacks from the nearest tree and from the motto "The only good Indian is a dead Indian". America has participated lustily in the butchering of others. There are those who feel that it is still going on...re: Black Lives Matter.

We have grown tremendously here in America, but do not kid yourself. Racism is alive and well in America. Its just a little more covert, a little less violent and a lot more insidious.

Being treated equally and with respect? Have you ever been denied service at a gas station? My child has...and that child is only 30 years old, so it was a relatively recent occurrence. Oh, I get that you said "for the most part", but how would YOU like to be treated with respect, not every day, but only Monday through Friday? Then on weekends, you are disrespected, verbally and emotionally. On weekends, people look you up and down with the eyebrow raised; or the waitress drops your plate in front of you instead of placing it down. On weekends, your kid cannot play on a certain team because "we are just too full and have no more places and we are soooo sorry...maybe so and so's team has room"...then your neighbors kid joins that very team the next weekend. On the weekend, at church, you are told you can't be in a life group because its only for "singers" and your non-singing friend is in that group...then the next weekend that same person tells everyone how much they just "looove" you.

Pretty soon, you would come to dread weekends. On Thursday, you would start to feel a little depressed. On Friday, you would be so tense in anticipation of the weekend that you snap at your family or at work. Then, suddenly, on Monday, you cannot release the tension of the past 2 days, so you hit a wall...or a person. All of a sudden, you need therapy.

Or, maybe you take a drink on Friday to relieve the stress on your body; then you need one on Thursday as well. Soon, you begin taking a drink on Monday to release the tension of the past 2 days. Then, you begin to hear people talk about you and your drinking and they are talking about it on a Wednesday. All of a sudden, you are an alcoholic. (How many conversations have you heard in your lifetime about drunk Indians? rhetorical question)
 
Giraffe, I get your angst, but are you saying that we should abandon "Boomer Sooner"? Have you felt offended by the terms?
 
giraffespot: It's hard for me to imagine that two people of Native American origins can have such totally opposite life experiences in regard to the way we view our nation and our fellow citizens.

You say your family has been the victim of racial discrimination, and I cannot and will not dispute your claim. But I also refuse to abandon my strongly held belief that in today's America, the vast majority of our citizens – whether they be white, black, red or yellow – do not judge their fellow Americans based on the color of their skin.
 
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