Why Does Capel Not Recruit In-State?

[Sam]

Maybe, but I think not having Blake is the real difference of that team. Willie was such a difference maker last year wasn't he? We basically looked like the same team with or without him last year.

Of course Blake was a huge difference maker, any player of the year, 1st overall draft pick etc and anytime you lose a player that good a drop off will happen. As I addressed in the post perhaps its possible Willie wasn't wired to be a leader or was too young and immature to. But as a 2nd option to Blake or in brief spurts (see KU and Texas, he balled in those games as a frosh) he was a difference maker. Teams had to account for him in many ways.

That team was a legitimate top 5 team with his help. Without him I don't think it happens, he was a difference maker in that facet as a freshman. I don't see how that can be denied.

 

[stoopified]

If you look at the history of OU basketball we have not being heavily laden with Oklahoma hs kids,usually fewer than half our roster.In fact many times there have been only 3-4 in state players.Bliss was the worst in my memory.I honestly cannot think of any in state player playing signifigant role for him.Tubbs had a few but the majority of his players were jucos from out of state,same thing for KS.Part of it is the best players from in state want to go to basketball power schools and not FOOTBALL IS KING OU.Among defectors that I recall Eton Thomas,Mark Price,Bill Cartwright,JR Giddens,Kevin Pritchard,Brian Hopgood,Sheldon Williams .Guys like Alvin Adams,Wayman Tisdale ,Blake Griffin going to OU are the exception,not the rule.

 

[campbest]

There's only one player that made that Elite 8 team an Elite 8 team. That's Blake Griffin. The guy was unanimous player of the year for a damn good reason.

There are 30+ games prior to the NCAA tournament.

 

[JBaker]

It's true isn't it? Was there really a big difference in how the the team looked when he or when TMG or Tiny showed up. Not really, because we never looked like a team.

We were 13-9 (4-5) with Willie in the lineup.

We were 0-7 without him.

 

[stoops4pres]

Rankings are hit and miss.

Prime example...the youngest Plumlee making the McDAA game, which is a joke. Only reason he is on that squad is because he's headed to Duke.

That's how it is every year for one of the elite b-ball programs. The selection process is a joke.

 

[stoops4pres]

Would last season have been better if we had Clarke and didn't have WW to lead TMG and Tiny astray (as has been rumored on this board)?

Would the program be in better shape now with a Clarke instead of WW?

The elite 8 really has gotten us nothing to speak of so far, so I'm not sure it's been of big value. Besides, I think we get to the elite 8 anyway as none of the teams we played (Morgan State, Michigan and Syracuse) had anybody better or comparable to BG until we met UNC who had a bunch of really good players.

Have said before, but my opinion: If you take Rotnei instead of Willie OU's chances of making the Elite 8 are abated. I don't think we make the Elite 8 with Rotnei and not WW.

However, I don't know how much better we would be this season and last with Clarke. He wouldn't have made a significant impact either of these two seasons to the point where OU's total amount of wins was substantially greater.

So to me, I would rather have the Elite 8 season with WW, rather than a couple extra wins these past two years yet still be a subpar team.

 

[stoops4pres]

Yea, and I'm positive JC recruited Orton, Henry x2, Muenelo (sp?), etc.

He IS recruiting Okla kids he thinks can play.

Exactly. I don't see much of a difference between KS and Capel in this regard, like you just pointed out.

 

[stoops4pres]

I'm not advocating WW's attitude at times by any means. However, I just really believe we are not a fringe #1 seed without Willie. Against #9 Purdue (who won finished second in the Big Ten and won the conference tourney) in Madison Square Garden, WW goes off for 22 points (really his first real big game for us) and pretty much carries us down the stretch (and overtime) by hitting 11-13 free throws.

As much as Willie gets flack for his attitude his sophomore season he did a great role of Robin his freshman year. He made us so much better, we also lose to at least SMU and Iowa State without him. Also he balled hard vs UNC, his jumper just wasn't falling that day.

Willie might not have been the biggest in the tournament but he put us in position to be a 2 seed. He was the difference between us being a top 15 team and a top 5 team that year.

These two posts mirror exactly what I was about to say. I think the posters disagreeing about WW's worth are misconstruing what we are saying regarding WW and the Elite 8: His play throughout the regular season during those aforementioned games was what put us in a position to get the #2 seed. I'm not sure Clarke could have had the same effect throughout the regular season. That's what is meant when saying WW was a glaring reason why OU went to the Elite 8.

He has done nothing at Arkansas to make them better...and they play in the SEC West!!

Thank you. Let's stop acting like Clarke is this great difference maker.

 

[stoops4pres]

That's so inaccurate it isn't even funny.

That's wrong. The role players on that squad have never gotten the respect they deserved.

No joke... Like Tony Crocker didn't do anything vs. Syracuse in the Sweet 16. And WW never came up huge in the multitude of games that season.... :facepalm:facepalm

To say that OU reached the Elite 8 and was one of the best teams in the country that season because of Blake alone is beyond idiotic.

 

[qwertyqaz]

There's only one player that made that Elite 8 team an Elite 8 team. That's Blake Griffin. The guy was unanimous player of the year for a damn good reason.

Man, even some years later the rest of the guys on that team are still getting the Rodney Dangerfield treatment from some supposed members of our fanbase.

 

[NickZepp]

Man, even some years later the rest of the guys on that team are still getting the Rodney Dangerfield treatment from some supposed members of our fanbase.

I'm not saying that the team was horrible. It had some decent players on it. Take Willie Warren off that team, not much changes because Blake Griffin is still there. Take AJ off, not much changes because that team has Blake Griffin, Take Tony Crocker off not much changes, Take Taylor Griffin off. Well Blake's not on the team if that happens. But you get the point. Blake was the difference on that team. Take him off I'm not sure we would be a lot different from last year as far as talent and as far as continuity went. A superstar like Blake takes you a long, long ways.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Man, even some years later the rest of the guys on that team are still getting the Rodney Dangerfield treatment from some supposed members of our fanbase.

I don't take it as not giving credit to Crocker, Johnson or even Warren. It's just that Blake Griffin was the best player in the country and nobody could stop him. Crocker had a nice game vs the cuse but he was a turnover waiting to happen vs Michigan and didn't have a great game vs UNC.

As nick said, if you take BG off that team they are probably an NCAA tourney team but that's about it. Take any other single player off the team and they are still probably elite 8.

The other players were nice supplementary but without BG they were 0-2.

 

[stoops4pres]

The other players were nice supplementary but without BG they were 0-2.

To be fair, this was amidst the toughest 2 game stretch of the season: Against a team that was the de facto champion (KU), and a tough road game vs. Texas. All within a 3 day stretch.

I thought the supporting cast showed they were legit with the way they played both of those games taking both down to the wire. Not saying you are implying the opposite, just speaking in general.

 

[qwertyqaz]

I don't take it as not giving credit to Crocker, Johnson or even Warren. It's just that Blake Griffin was the best player in the country and nobody could stop him. Crocker had a nice game vs the cuse but he was a turnover waiting to happen vs Michigan and didn't have a great game vs UNC.

As nick said, if you take BG off that team they are probably an NCAA tourney team but that's about it. Take any other single player off the team and they are still probably elite 8.

The other players were nice supplementary but without BG they were 0-2.

bob, I agree with a good part of your sentiment and I think that it is a bit more reasoned than the hard claim that the only reason the 08-09 squad was an Elite 8 team was because of one player, regardless of how good that one player was. That being said, basketball is not a "sum of the parts" type of game where you can "insert player here" and get the same results elsewhere or regardless of what's going on around that one player. We don't know what would have happened if Crocker had been cold during the Cuse game or was not a threat to go off during any game during the year, or if we don't have a point guard like Austin Johnson, or if we don't have a guy like Taylor Griffin to work inside. Am I saying that these guys would have been sufficient for an elite 8 run and a 30-6 overall record? Of course not!! But let's not assume that if we plug in any other 4 guys at the 1 through 4 that we get the same results.

Again bob, I'm with you on the general sentiment, Blake was a beast and clearly there's no debate on that! But those guys that surrounded him were pretty damn good and experienced and a different group with not as much experience, not as much chemistry, not as much skill as those others were able to bring of themselves to the team effort, well, I don't know if it's a slam dunk that we still go 30-6 and get to the Elite 8 to lose to the eventual National Champions.

 

[Big Old Booger]

bob, I agree with a good part of your sentiment and I think that it is a bit more reasoned than the hard claim that the only reason the 08-09 squad was an Elite 8 team was because of one player, regardless of how good that one player was. That being said, basketball is not a "sum of the parts" type of game where you can "insert player here" and get the same results elsewhere or regardless of what's going on around that one player. We don't know what would have happened if Crocker had been cold during the Cuse game or was not a threat to go off during any game during the year, or if we don't have a point guard like Austin Johnson, or if we don't have a guy like Taylor Griffin to work inside. Am I saying that these guys would have been sufficient for an elite 8 run and a 30-6 overall record? Of course not!! But let's not assume that if we plug in any other 4 guys at the 1 through 4 that we get the same results.

Again bob, I'm with you on the general sentiment, Blake was a beast and clearly there's no debate on that! But those guys that surrounded him were pretty damn good and experienced and a different group with not as much experience, not as much chemistry, not as much skill as those others were able to bring of themselves to the team effort, well, I don't know if it's a slam dunk that we still go 30-6 and get to the Elite 8 to lose to the eventual National Champions.

I can agree with this, and I wasn't implying any group of 4 players combined with BG is an elite 8 team. Definitely agree the team had good chemistry, other than WW sleeping with AJ's girlfriend.

 

[Section31]

I would add that I seem to recall Clark threatening to leave Arkansas just last year. So, I'm not sure he's much different than the players you compare him to other than he has NO ONE telling him he can play at the next level and he HAS to stay in college.