Why have so many guys left under Capel?

[DenverSooner]

Chris Early, Bobby Maze, Orlondo Allen, Juan Pattillo, WW, TMG, Tiny, TJ Taylor, Keith Clark, Ray Willis, Tony Neysmith, etc.

I think I have forgotten some guys and OU also lost Reynolds, James and the center from that class.

Additionally, Sampson lost a ton of guys his last few years (Lavendar, McKensie, Larry Turner, Tobias and probably others).

This has to stop.

 

[Perk's Scowl]

It is strange, because of any of these kids would have gone anywhere else, the same result would have happened. Sure, some of the fault has to fall on Capel for bringing these kids in, but I doubt any coach could have predicted the outcome of all these kids. Capel brought in the best talent that would come, and it just so happened that the issued followed.

I don't think TMG or Tiny would have excelled at any school in the country, and most coaches would have been excited at the prospects of bringing 2 mcdonalds all americans in.

 

[p230]

Only the Shadow Knows!

 

[Tony]

Additionally, Sampson lost a ton of guys his last few years (Lavendar, McKensie, Larry Turner, Tobias and probably others).

Antonio Bobo
Princeton Parks
Michael Cotton
Bobby Joe Evans
Tyrone Foster
Lou Moore
Ryan Humphrey
Alex Spaulding
JR Raymond
Ronnie Griffin
Blake Johnston
Jabahri Brown
Rashaad Carruth
Matt Gipson
De'Angelo Alexander
Larry Turner
Brandon Foust
Drew Lavender
Lawrence McKenzie
Jimmy Tobias


That doesn't include guys like John Hall, James Wright, and Tony Heard who signed but never made it to campus. OU basketball has just had an extremely high attrition rate over the last couple decades.

 

[Tony]

Jarrett Hart too; forgot him.

 

[bgrch1350]

Chris Early, Bobby Maze, Orlondo Allen, Juan Pattillo, WW, TMG, Tiny, TJ Taylor, Keith Clark, Ray Willis, Tony Neysmith, etc.

I think I have forgotten some guys and OU also lost Reynolds, James and the center from that class.

Additionally, Sampson lost a ton of guys his last few years (Lavendar, McKensie, Larry Turner, Tobias and probably others).

This has to stop.

WW, TMG, and Gallon declared for the draft, They didn't transfer. Capel didn't lose Reynolds, James and the other guy. Capel didn't recruit them prior to their signing so no surprise that they went somewhere else.

Plus, Capels list isn't near as bad. Lavender, Mckenzie, and Humphrey were 2 times more valuable than any player Capel has lost.

Maze, Patillo, and Clark are the only guys who have proven that they would have helped our team. Maze is the only one that could have stayed under the circumstances. So I don't understand why the criticism of guys transfereing when he hasn't lost anyone of great importance.

Other teams have guys transfer all the time. Hell, Duke had a player transfer mid season last year(Czyz) who transfered midseason b/c of playing time who could have got a ring if he would have just stayed on the team til the end of the season.

 

[Tony]

So I don't understand why the criticism of guys transfereing when he hasn't lost anyone of great importance.

I guess the obvious follow-up question would be why he is signing so many players that aren't important.

Of course it's an unknown at this point, but it seems to me that TJ Taylor is a player who would have been a key part of OU basketball.

Maybe it's unfair of me, but I do hold Jeff Capel somewhat responsible for TMG and Tiny, even if they did declare for the draft as opposed to transferring. Perhaps I'm being too harsh and there is nothing he could have done, I don't know. But signing them was a clear mistake in retrospect, anyway.

 

[NickZepp]

TMG and Gallon should count. More so TMG because he basically left because he didn't want to be here not because of his NBA chance. He never had a shot in hell of being drafted. Gallon left for different reasons although not much better reasons. If he stayed he may have not even been eligible because he took money.

 

[Dem Coltz]

It's hard for me to come to grips with how quickly TJ went from a prized recruit to expendable in less than 3 months. So we sign Newell and Blair, and in a few practices TJ is behind - he's a freshman! Cal and Blair haven't exactly shocked the world with their consistent excellence this year. You mean it wouldn't be helpful to have the guy on the team a few years working out every day? As a veteran pg/sg junior and senior year if not sooner? If we've seen anything it's that this program is a sieve, and TJ was the most solid freshman academically coming in. Who's to say the reasons the other two had for qualifying won't resurface with academic struggles?

It's completely selfish, but it helped when TMG left that I knew some of the crap he pulled and where the fault lay. It would help to know more about this situation too, and not from a 1 post message boarder.

 

[stoops4pres]

more so tmg because he basically left because he didn't want to be in school period, not because of his nba chance.

fify

 

[bgrch1350]

It's hard for me to come to grips with how quickly TJ went from a prized recruit to expendable in less than 3 months. So we sign Newell and Blair, and in a few practices TJ is behind - he's a freshman! Cal and Blair haven't exactly shocked the world with their consistent excellence this year. You mean it wouldn't be helpful to have the guy on the team a few years working out every day? As a veteran pg/sg junior and senior year if not sooner? If we've seen anything it's that this program is a sieve, and TJ was the most solid freshman academically coming in. Who's to say the reasons the other two had for qualifying won't resurface with academic struggles?

Taylor, according to scout, wasn't a top 100 player....So I don't know how he could possilbly be a prize recruit.

 

[bgrch1350]

TMG and Gallon should count. More so TMG because he basically left because he didn't want to be here not because of his NBA chance. He never had a shot in hell of being drafted. Gallon left for different reasons although not much better reasons. If he stayed he may have not even been eligible because he took money.

Just b/c he left and wasn't drafted doesn't mean he didn't leave to make money. He left b/c he wanted to make money and he didn't want to be in college anymore. If a kid wants to leave to make money, it has nothing to do with the coach. I'm sure that Capel told him the benifits, financially, that would occur if he came back but he left anyways.

When kids want to make money...there is nothing any coach can do but give them the best advice possible and let them figure it out.

So again, TMG, Gallon, and Warren left to make money..the end. It does not reflect Capel one bit. And TMG and Gallon are both in the NBDL and Warren is the NBA so maybe TMG and Gallon will be in the NBA sooner or later.

 

[thebigabd]

I guess the obvious follow-up question would be why he is signing so many players that aren't important.

Of course it's an unknown at this point, but it seems to me that TJ Taylor is a player who would have been a key part of OU basketball.

Maybe it's unfair of me, but I do hold Jeff Capel somewhat responsible for TMG and Tiny, even if they did declare for the draft as opposed to transferring. Perhaps I'm being too harsh and there is nothing he could have done, I don't know. But signing them was a clear mistake in retrospect, anyway.

Right, why so many players that arent even D1 caliber? Some where, most werent.

Either Capel can't evaluate OR he waits until last second and has to sign warm bodies.

 

[okcsooner83]

Capel's ability to evaluate talent should be questioned. Look at OU's current roster, how many players are there that would start at baylor, texas, kansas, mizzou, kansas state or texas a & m? Capel has had too many misses after signing blake griffin.

 

[OUhoops11]

When I look at that list of players who have left from Sampson and Capel, a few things stand out.


1) Many who left never succeeded playing basketball at any level after leaving OU. (exceptions: Lav, McKenzie, etc.)


2) Many who left were not disciplined enough to play college basketball and to be a student-athlete.


3) Some who left were dealing with family issues and needed to be closer to home.


4) Many who left were just mentally weak and quit on themselves and their team because they either weren't getting the playing time they thought they deserved, they weren't doing as well on the court as they were used to their entire lives, or the coaches actually yelled at them and preached fundamentals, unlike AAU.



Maybe I'm wrong, but the current generation of AAU, And1 basketball players are incredibly undisciplined and very poorly coached from Day 1 of their basketball playing lives. Fundamentals are a thing of the past with these guys. They've been the star athlete their entire lives, then they get to college where everyone is as athletic as they are, and they can't handle it mentally. They aren't disciplined enough to wake up at 6am every day to get in the weight room. They aren't discplined enough to stay at the gym until midnight working on their game. Obviously, there are exceptions, and those are the guys who become great basketball players (Blake Griffin)



And before you go blaming the coaches for recruiting these types of kids, I'll say this. It's very easy for a kid during recruitment to tell Capel or any coach recruiting him that he has the drive and desire to be the best, that he'll live in the gym, he'll keep his grades high, etc. It's another to actually do it.


Of course, Capel has to be checking with their teachers, coaches, parents, etc. to try to get a better idea if the athlete will live up to his promises to you, and I'm sure he's doing that. However, there's only so much you can do. Recruiting is a guessing game then hope like hell it turns out well. There are very, very few sure things.

 

[Bk2X]

Exactly the way I see it OUHoops11

 

[CoachTalk]

When I look at that list of players who have left from Sampson and Capel, a few things stand out.


1) Many who left never succeeded playing basketball at any level after leaving OU. (exceptions: Lav, McKenzie, etc.)


2) Many who left were not disciplined enough to play college basketball and to be a student-athlete.


3) Some who left were dealing with family issues and needed to be closer to home.


4) Many who left were just mentally weak and quit on themselves and their team because they either weren't getting the playing time they thought they deserved, they weren't doing as well on the court as they were used to their entire lives, or the coaches actually yelled at them and preached fundamentals, unlike AAU.



Maybe I'm wrong, but the current generation of AAU, And1 basketball players are incredibly undisciplined and very poorly coached from Day 1 of their basketball playing lives. Fundamentals are a thing of the past with these guys. They've been the star athlete their entire lives, then they get to college where everyone is as athletic as they are, and they can't handle it mentally. They aren't disciplined enough to wake up at 6am every day to get in the weight room. They aren't discplined enough to stay at the gym until midnight working on their game. Obviously, there are exceptions, and those are the guys who become great basketball players (Blake Griffin)



And before you go blaming the coaches for recruiting these types of kids, I'll say this. It's very easy for a kid during recruitment to tell Capel or any coach recruiting him that he has the drive and desire to be the best, that he'll live in the gym, he'll keep his grades high, etc. It's another to actually do it.


Of course, Capel has to be checking with their teachers, coaches, parents, etc. to try to get a better idea if the athlete will live up to his promises to you, and I'm sure he's doing that. However, there's only so much you can do. Recruiting is a guessing game then hope like hell it turns out well. There are very, very few sure things.

Very well said.

 

[oSuJeff97]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the current generation of AAU, And1 basketball players are incredibly undisciplined and very poorly coached from Day 1 of their basketball playing lives. Fundamentals are a thing of the past with these guys. They've been the star athlete their entire lives, then they get to college where everyone is as athletic as they are, and they can't handle it mentally. They aren't disciplined enough to wake up at 6am every day to get in the weight room. They aren't discplined enough to stay at the gym until midnight working on their game. Obviously, there are exceptions, and those are the guys who become great basketball players (Blake Griffin)

And before you go blaming the coaches for recruiting these types of kids, I'll say this. It's very easy for a kid during recruitment to tell Capel or any coach recruiting him that he has the drive and desire to be the best, that he'll live in the gym, he'll keep his grades high, etc. It's another to actually do it.

Of course, Capel has to be checking with their teachers, coaches, parents, etc. to try to get a better idea if the athlete will live up to his promises to you, and I'm sure he's doing that. However, there's only so much you can do. Recruiting is a guessing game then hope like hell it turns out well. There are very, very few sure things.

I think you're unfairly painting with a very broad brush here.

It seems the tenor of your post is that Capel isn't to blame for recruiting the wrong guys because (a) AAU makes most players spoiled and undisciplined and (b) recruiting is a guessing game.

I don't disagree that there are some kids out there that are undisciplined, not fundamentally sound, etc.

Just because there are some recruiting busts from time-to-time doesn't necessarily mean it's a "guessing game." Talent (and personality) evaluation is the main part of recruiting for most coaches.

 

[sooner8]

I guess Capel is the worst guesser in D1 college basketball??Go Sooners!!!!

 

[seniorsooner]

The bottom line is when you are at the highest level of coaching in division 1 athletics s**t rolls uphill. You're getting paid a LOT of money to do a job. You either get it done, or you don't. There are no excuses, at least that's how it should be when someone is getting paid millions of dollars a year to do a job. We're not talking about the high school checker at Wal-Mart.