Will OSU be better or worse?

[thebigabd]

They lose Eaton and Harris, two four year players who combined for 28 points, 8.5 rebounds, and 8 assists per game. They were both also good defensive players, good athletes, and would hit huge shots for them.

In Eaton alone they lose a guy who averaged 14 points a game, and dished out 199 assists on the season. They dont have anyone that can replace that kind of production. They also no longer have a player that they can just clear out for, because nobody could keep Eaton in front of them so he either scored at the rim or dished off for a wide open 3.

They also lost their best recruit (Karron Johnson) because he didnt qualify.

They return Muenolo, Anderson, Page, and Moses. And they add Franklin, Dowell, Penn, Torin Walker.

To be honest, I just dont see how they get better.

 

[boksooner]

It will take them a while to get over the loss of Eaton. He could take over games. Anderson has the talent to do it, we'll see if he has the determination and toughness to do it.

 

[BigTime]

I think they will be slightly better than last year's team was during the nonconference, but not even close to as good as last year's team was at the end of the season.

Eaton was so ideal for what Ford was trying to do because he was impossible to contain driving the lane and would get guys open threes nearly every time down the floor. He also got to the foul line so much that it nullified the fact that they had very little inside game. Losing him is really big.

Harris was quite the defender, and will be missed in that area.

 

[oSuJeff97]

We'll see, BigTime.

We have the potential to be much better for a couple of reasons:

1. Confidence in Ford and his system: Last year's team, while having some talent, had ZERO confidence in itself or what it might be able to do under Ford. They were still the same squabbling, discontented team for the first half of the season that they were the previous three years... (see Thomas quitting; and Moses almost quitting). But about half-way through the conference season, guys bought in. Moses gave OSU a legitimate post threat, Anderson really picked up his game and the team gelled under the four-guard lineup. They actually did well in March and won a game in the NCAA tournament... nobody on last year's roster at the beginning of the season had even sniffed the NCAA Tournament, let alone won a game.

So moving into this year, even with key components missing (Eaton, Harris), OSU has a solid core of veteran players (Anderson, Moses, Muenelo) that have tasted some late-season success and finally have some stability in coaching/system.

2. Legitimate post presence from the beginning of the season: Remember that last season, OSU was getting almost NOTHING from the post until Moses emerged in conference play. That was basically going though half of the season ONLY relying on perimeter players. But then Moses started playing well and averaged nearly a double-double in conference play. Getting solid production from the post at the beginning of the season will be an improvement over last year.

3. Continued improvement of Anderson and Muenelo: Anderson made tremendous strides from his freshman to sophomore year; Muenelo has also been consistently improving. Having these guys a year older will be a good thing.

4. Depth: As we all know, last year's squad was VERY thin. While we can debate just how good OSU's newcomers will be, I think it goes without saying that just adding some depth will help.

So those are the reasons I think we MIGHT be better...

That said, I agree with the huge loss that Eaton represents. The key to all of this will be getting some decent point guard play... it doesn't have to be all-conference... just not BAD.

Will Ray Penn be that guy? Keiton Page (at times)? Fred Gulley?

We'll see.

 

[Dignon003]

I think record wise we'll be similar. We'll have a deeper team, but we'll be young. Don't be surprised to see Obi coming off the bench.

 

[thebigabd]

Don't be surprised to see Obi coming off the bench.

Well, he is a f&%$ing idiot. Per his coach.

 

[Dignon003]

Ford says he doesn't see Page at the point. He said that in Enid Monday night.

 

[BigTime]

We'll see, BigTime.

We have the potential to be much better for a couple of reasons:

1. Confidence in Ford and his system: Last year's team, while having some talent, had ZERO confidence in itself or what it might be able to do under Ford. They were still the same squabbling, discontented team for the first half of the season that they were the previous three years... (see Thomas quitting; and Moses almost quitting). But about half-way through the conference season, guys bought in. Moses gave OSU a legitimate post threat, Anderson really picked up his game and the team gelled under the four-guard lineup. They actually did well in March and won a game in the NCAA tournament... nobody on last year's roster at the beginning of the season had even sniffed the NCAA Tournament, let alone won a game.

So moving into this year, even with key components missing (Eaton, Harris), OSU has a solid core of veteran players (Anderson, Moses, Muenelo) that have tasted some late-season success and finally have some stability in coaching/system.

2. Legitimate post presence from the beginning of the season: Remember that last season, OSU was getting almost NOTHING from the post until Moses emerged in conference play. That was basically going though half of the season ONLY relying on perimeter players. But then Moses started playing well and averaged nearly a double-double in conference play. Getting solid production from the post at the beginning of the season will be an improvement over last year.

3. Continued improvement of Anderson and Muenelo: Anderson made tremendous strides from his freshman to sophomore year; Muenelo has also been consistently improving. Having these guys a year older will be a good thing.

4. Depth: As we all know, last year's squad was VERY thin. While we can debate just how good OSU's newcomers will be, I think it goes without saying that just adding some depth will help.

So those are the reasons I think we MIGHT be better...

That said, I agree with the huge loss that Eaton represents. The key to all of this will be getting some decent point guard play... it doesn't have to be all-conference... just not BAD.
Will Ray Penn be that guy? Keiton Page (at times)? Fred Gulley?

We'll see.

Disagree. PG play is the key to Ford's offense, and it needs to be very good to great. IF you had TMG coming in at point then I would feel much better about your chances. Don't expect to see Keiton or James get nearly as many WIDE OPEN three pointers next year. I was amazed at the number of great shots all the cowboy guards got last year and it was because of Eaton. He demanded a double team (sometimes triple team) on the dribble penetration every time.

Plus, the conference is better, so even if you guys are better, then I expect your conference record (9-7) to be the same or slightly worse (8-8 to 7-9).

We shall see. It sucks that we have to wait so long. Good thing there is football to tide us over! ha

 

[oSuJeff97]

Disagree. PG play is the key to Ford's offense, and it needs to be very good to great.

Good to great PG play is the key to ANY college offense, unless you have somebody like Blake Griffin on the inside... (which very few obviously do.)

IF you had TMG coming in at point then I would feel much better about your chances. Don't expect to see Keiton or James get nearly as many WIDE OPEN three pointers next year. I was amazed at the number of great shots all the cowboy guards got last year and it was because of Eaton. He demanded a double team (sometimes triple team) on the dribble penetration every time.

I've seen you post this over and over again, BigTime, and while I don't discount the value of Eaton, I think you're overblowing this a bit; especially the comments about Eaton being "triple teamed".... a bit of hyperbole there.

One of the things that made OSU so much better last year versus previous years was they were MUCH better on ball screens and movement in the offense. Those things, in adddition to dribble penegration, get shooters open.

And why would we be OK with TMG? He's still a freshman coming in who is going to make freshman mistakes.

Do you just automatically think that Ray Penn isn't going to be effective at all at PG? He was one of the top 10-15 PG recruits in the country.

 

[thebigabd]

Do you just automatically think that Ray Penn isn't going to be effective at all at PG? He was one of the top 10-15 PG recruits in the country.

I think Penn is a 5'9'' shooting guard.

 

[AdaSooner]

I don't know what to think. OSU was much better last season than most of us predicted. They played hard and won more games than I thought possible with a guard-dominated team and a lack of quality depth at the post positions. Travis Ford proved he's a pretty darned good coach to pull that off.

My guess is the Pokes will be slightly worse (youth) to begin the season, but surprise a few people toward the end, just as they did last year.

 

[BigTime]

Good to great PG play is the key to ANY college offense, unless you have somebody like Blake Griffin on the inside... (which very few obviously do.)



I've seen you post this over and over again, BigTime, and while I don't discount the value of Eaton, I think you're overblowing this a bit; especially the comments about Eaton being "triple teamed".... a bit of hyperbole there.

One of the things that made OSU so much better last year versus previous years was they were MUCH better on ball screens and movement in the offense. Those things, in adddition to dribble penegration, get shooters open.

And why would we be OK with TMG? He's still a freshman coming in who is going to make freshman mistakes.

Do you just automatically think that Ray Penn isn't going to be effective at all at PG? He was one of the top 10-15 PG recruits in the country.

He was rated as one of the top five passers (number 3) in the country and he is really good at getting into the lane. You wouldn't rather have TMG? I would.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I think Penn is a 5'9'' shooting guard.

He's listed as a point guard and played it in high school.

If your point is that he's more of a "shoot first" guy versus a pure distributor, you're probably right.

His game is probably more in line with John Lucas, versus Doug Gottlieb.

He was rated as one of the top five passers (number 3) in the country and he is really good at getting into the lane. You wouldn't rather have TMG? I would.

That's not the point.

My point is that while he may not be as good as TMG, he's was still one of the top 10-15 point guards prospects in the country and thus could end up being pretty good.

You seem to be automatically just assuming that Penn can't/won't be an effective point guard as a true freshman.

Given that quickness is supposed to be Penn's biggest asset, it seems getting into the lane would be something he would be doing...

It's just all guessing at this point.

 

[NickZepp]

OSU will be better. They could easily sweep us this year.

 

[thebigabd]

OSU will be better. They could easily sweep us this year.

easily?

 

[BigTime]

He's listed as a point guard and played it in high school.

If your point is that he's more of a "shoot first" guy versus a pure distributor, you're probably right.

His game is probably more in line with John Lucas, versus Doug Gottlieb.



That's not the point.

My point is that while he may not be as good as TMG, he's was still one of the top 10-15 point guards prospects in the country and thus could end up being pretty good.

You seem to be automatically just assuming that Penn can't/won't be an effective point guard as a true freshman.

Given that quickness is supposed to be Penn's biggest asset, it seems getting into the lane would be something he would be doing...

It's just all guessing at this point.

Many in your fanbase don't even think he will be the back-up next year at PG. He is very quick (as is Reger) but there is more to getting into the lane than being quick.

I agree with Dignon and will say that it will be Gulley or Dowell that starts next year.

I would like for you to answer the question, jeff. TMG or Penn; which one would you rather have next year? I don't think it is much of a contest.

Nick,

I agree that they could (especially if Anderson and Obi are on from deep) but I would hope that you would agree that there is a better chance that we would continue the two year streak of sweeping them next year in the regular season.

 

[thebigabd]

I bet if every single Big 12 coach could choose between TMG and Ray Penn to be their starting point guard, all 12 would select TMG and not think twice.

 

[HoHum]

Why did Mason Griffin's high school team only go 15-11? According to maxpreps that is. Did he miss any time, or did he have a really bad supporting cast?

Note: 4 games don't have scores.

 

[BigTime]

Why did Mason Griffin's high school team only go 15-11? According to maxpreps that is. Did he miss any time, or did he have a really bad supporting cast?

Note: 4 games don't have scores.

19-11 and lost in the play-offs to then undefeated Strake Jesuit. From what I understand (kcoukid may know better), the Madison Marlins didn't have a lot of talent on that team besides TMG.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I would like for you to answer the question, jeff. TMG or Penn; which one would you rather have next year? I don't think it is much of a contest.

I would pick TMG... but again, that's not the point.

Whether or not TMG is better than Penn doesn't have any impact on whether or not Penn can be an effective point guard.