Will Ray Willis start

[elmocarp]

Willis has the second best offensive skills of all our perimeter players. Last year he just didn't know how to play in a game situation or when to take his shots.

OK, I want to be really careful here, because I'm certainly not looking to "bedowngrade" any of our guys, but what is this based on? People say stuff like this about him all the time, and I understand where it comes from (pick up games, high school, coach's comments), but shouldn't things like knowing how to play in a game factor into the evaluation of his talent?

The little bit I saw of Willis last year led me to only one conclusion (and this might be unwarranted too)...He is a guy who has allowed his ability to produce in an informal setting get in the way of his ability to produce in the setting that counts. If you have played ball, been around ball, or just been a good fan for a while, then you have seen plenty of guys like this. The Willis we have all seen just didn't get it yet. And that's all we have to go on guys. We can hope that the light has come on and that he can step in this year, but I find it hard to say definitively whether or not he will. To quote my friend Michael Lombardi, "Hope is not a plan."

Furthermore, I think it should be noted that part of a player's "skill set" is his ability to "play in a game situation." In fact, I'd put it damn near the top of the list. To say that he is better offensively than Crocker or Cade, guys who have seen real minutes every year they have been at OU seems a little wishful. Even TMG and Pledger, as newcomers, seem to have as much of an offensive "skill set" as Willis, and we pretty much know just as much about them as we do Ray.

Also, I don't know what the deal is with people not believing that Cade is legit. I think people see a white guy who shoots threes and they think, "role player, but he is a limited player." Then they see a black guy in Willis, so they think, "He might be behind Cade right now, but he has way more upside." Bottom line is Cade kept Willis on the bench all year and gave us some big minutes. And for all of his offensive limitations, Crocker shot us into the Elite Eight last year.

I don't think we are at the place as a program anymore where we have to hope a guy on the bench is going to blossom so we can have a decent year. If Willis turns out to be a player, great. If not, that's great too. We have guys on the team who have already proven they can play and talented guys coming in behind him. And if he transfers, great again, there's another scholarship for a guy who can come in and be a player.

Again, this is in no way meant to be an anti-Willis post, I just think any talk of what he will or won't do is a total guess. And ultimately, I think the team isn't built around his development. I don't think "scoring 3 man" is the real question facing this team next year.

 

[MNsooner]

Wow. Great post Elmo. I would say that there is more reason to be optimistic about Ray than you let on though. Most of his mistakes looked like normal lower class men mistakes. And, he is about at the point when most guys make that jump. Let's just hope it happens for him and the team.

 

[Seymore Cox]

OK, I all the time, and I understand where it comes from (pick up games, high school, coach's comments), but shouldn't things like knowing how to play in a game factor into the evaluation of his talent?want to be really careful here, because I'm certainly not looking to "bedowngrade" any of our guys, but what is this based on? People say stuff like this about him

First it's based on what Coach Capel said. Last year coach Capel said Willis was there fourth best offensive player. He said this in the middle of the season. If you believe what coach said, that would put him behind Griffin, Warren, and Crocker. Second, if you look at how he has play extended minutes in limited action, albeit against tomato cans, he was very prolific. In games where he has had more than ten minutes, he averaged .6pts per minute. That puts him over 20pts in a 40minute game. Now do I think if he plays 40 minutes do I think he'll have 20pts a game? No. But I definetely think he's able to put the ball in the basket. Lastly, he's a good shooter. He's got good elevation on his jumper and his legnth helps him get his shot over alot of defenders. He had 5 3ptrs in 5 games. 1 3ptr a game is pretty good.

Now, he's got a lot to work on. He doesn't understand how to set up his shot, which is why he took bad shots. He's got to understand how to catch and shoot and he has to understand how to set up screens and rub his defender. He would definetely benefit from watching alot of Rip Hamilton and Reggie Miller on film. Also he has to figure out how to get higher percentage shots. He can't rely on long range jumpers. Little curl screens to get 15ft jumpers and catch fakes, and one dribble moves are things he needs to work on. With him he can either turn into a guy like Terrell Harris and or Brandon Rush, guys that can get a variation of shots or he can become a Josh Carter or Tony Crocker, guys who are limited to just long range perimeter shots.

 

[DenverSooner]

Exactly. All we've seen of Ray Willis is chucking up bad shots and turning the ball over during the last 5 minutes of blowout games.

That sure is negative. What I saw was a guy with talent that was also prone to making mistakes due to making poor decisions as opposed to lacking talent. Ray Willis clearly demonstrated he had the confidence to take a man off the dribble and to shoot the deep shot. He also showed that he did not necessarily pick the best opportunities to do those things. I really think you have to realize that all of these guys come to OU after having just dominated in high school. Some come in timid, some come in confident. Both can and often do make big contirbutions before they leave.

I will not profess to be a great basketball mind. I really am just a fan, but sometimes I read the internet and wonder if some of the so called OU fans are either a fan or a great basketball mind.

 

[Cheno]

OK, I want to be really careful here, because I'm certainly not looking to "bedowngrade" any of our guys, but what is this based on? People say stuff like this about him all the time, and I understand where it comes from (pick up games, high school, coach's comments), but shouldn't things like knowing how to play in a game factor into the evaluation of his talent?

The little bit I saw of Willis last year led me to only one conclusion (and this might be unwarranted too)...He is a guy who has allowed his ability to produce in an informal setting get in the way of his ability to produce in the setting that counts. If you have played ball, been around ball, or just been a good fan for a while, then you have seen plenty of guys like this. The Willis we have all seen just didn't get it yet. And that's all we have to go on guys. We can hope that the light has come on and that he can step in this year, but I find it hard to say definitively whether or not he will. To quote my friend Michael Lombardi, "Hope is not a plan."

Furthermore, I think it should be noted that part of a player's "skill set" is his ability to "play in a game situation." In fact, I'd put it damn near the top of the list. To say that he is better offensively than Crocker or Cade, guys who have seen real minutes every year they have been at OU seems a little wishful. Even TMG and Pledger, as newcomers, seem to have as much of an offensive "skill set" as Willis, and we pretty much know just as much about them as we do Ray.

Also, I don't know what the deal is with people not believing that Cade is legit. I think people see a white guy who shoots threes and they think, "role player, but he is a limited player." Then they see a black guy in Willis, so they think, "He might be behind Cade right now, but he has way more upside." Bottom line is Cade kept Willis on the bench all year and gave us some big minutes. And for all of his offensive limitations, Crocker shot us into the Elite Eight last year.

I don't think we are at the place as a program anymore where we have to hope a guy on the bench is going to blossom so we can have a decent year. If Willis turns out to be a player, great. If not, that's great too. We have guys on the team who have already proven they can play and talented guys coming in behind him. And if he transfers, great again, there's another scholarship for a guy who can come in and be a player.

Again, this is in no way meant to be an anti-Willis post, I just think any talk of what he will or won't do is a total guess. And ultimately, I think the team isn't built around his development. I don't think "scoring 3 man" is the real question facing this team next year.

Fantastic post Elmo. Agree 100%.
Let's be honest....Ray Willis has some great God-given talent but so do a lot of guys. He first has to show on and off the court he's dedicated. I hope to heck that is the case. After he shows that, he still has a pretty salty group of perimeter players to beat out for a starting spot. I just don't see anyway he starts over WW, Crocker, TMG or Cade. And to be honest, I'll be surprised if he plays more than Pledger. I hope I'm wrong because if I am then OU will have a fabulous team because those guys are good.

 

[j2d2]

In those games where Crocker completely disappears, Willis would give us a chance to score some points and take some scoring pressure off the rest.

 

[elmocarp]

In those games where Crocker completely disappears, Willis would give us a chance to score some points and take some scoring pressure off the rest.

Crocker almost NEVER "completely disappears." He always plays his butt off and is always a top level defender. That stuff matters as much or more than scoring does.

 

[BigTime]

Crocker almost NEVER "completely disappears." He always plays his butt off and is always a top level defender. That stuff matters as much or more than scoring does.

There were games last year where Crocker completely disappeared (the Arkansas game during the first half). Let's hope that he is consistent with his defense as he was during the second half of last season. He has grown leaps and bounds in that department since his freshman season. It really gives me hope for Ray in the future....

 

[Cheno]

There were games Willie Warren completely disappeared last year.
Crocker gets a bad rap. He was the 4th option on offense last year. He wasn't looked to score a bunch.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Crocker gets a bad rap. He was the 4th option on offense last year. He wasn't looked to score a bunch.

I'd say he was the 3rd option most of the time, but point taken.

 

[Cheno]

I'd say he was the 3rd option most of the time, but point taken.

Possibly but it seemed like Taylor Griffin really became that 3rd option as the season progressed. His game really stepped up. Basically there were 3 NBA players playing with T Crock. I think he will elevate his game this year from a numbers standpoint.

 

[Seymore Cox]

There were games Willie Warren completely disappeared last year.
Crocker gets a bad rap. He was the 4th option on offense last year. He wasn't looked to score a bunch.

There were games where WW disappered, but there were stretches of the season where Crocker disappeared. Not acceptable for a veteran.

 

[shytnik]

Came into this one late, but I also see all the positive comments about Willie and have seen nothing to support them. I don't dislike the kid and I certainly hope he produces. Sure he has a lot of potential, but it's just that. When he was brought in to OU it was as a SF, but one of the things working against him is that he is so slight at 6'6 170. He hasn't put on the weight to be able to get in and mix it up.

I think the 4 guard line up will only be for certain situations. We have some really good big men this year and I think when that comment was made it was out of concern for a significant drop off down low without Blake. Guyss have stepped it up in the off season though. With Wright, Allen, Gallon, Fitzgerald, now Honore and even Hardrick, they may not have a ton of experience but I see us having two big men on the floor most of the time and as a starting set.

He's not going to take time from Crocker, Tony is too valuable a defender as well as a very capable scorer. Right now I don't see him getting around Cade Davis either. For that matter Steven Pledger at 6'4 221 has a larger frame and shoots the ball better. Now he is a freshman and maybe not ready for this level yet, but from what little I've seen of Willis, I just don't see him as a starter or the 6th man. Hope I am wrong and he has a break out year, but I am certainly not expecting that to happen.

 

[Cheno]

There were games where WW disappered, but there were stretches of the season where Crocker disappeared. Not acceptable for a veteran.

Fair comment but a lot of that, IMO, goes back to him being a 4th option type of guy and an afterthought to Blake and Willie. I felt Tony got forgot about at times last year. And I'm not saying that was necessarily wrong because when you have two stallions like Blake and Willie you ride them.
It just was what it was. I think Tony will have a very good season and be a top 3 scoring option this year.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Fair comment but a lot of that, IMO, goes back to him being a 4th option type of guy and an afterthought to Blake and Willie. I felt Tony got forgot about at times last year. And I'm not saying that was necessarily wrong because when you have two stallions like Blake and Willie you ride them.
It just was what it was. I think Tony will have a very good season and be a top 3 scoring option this year.

If tony was forgotten he only had himself to blame. WW and BG only averaged 37pts combined, so Tony had plenty of opportunity to contribute on the other 45. Tony shot bad and got down on himself. Both WW and BG tried to break him out of his slump. Luckily he broke out of it against the Cuse.