Youth

[InTheKnow]

Believe it not, this isn't a dog Jeff, or bag on the OU team thread.

I'm just sick of reading the blanket statement that you can't win with youth, when good teams do it all the time. It is also hard to believe that the recruiting places missed on ALL of our high-end recruits currently on the team. That might be the case. Or it might be on 1 or 2 of them. I really think part of the problem is the way Capel treats them, and the freedom he has given them on and off the court.

Very true. All you need to do is look back to the "Fab Five". But, it takes a special kind of coach to win with freshman talent like what UK has this season. All those egos would be a huge challenge to deal with. I still believe Capel is a good, solid coach, but I don't believe he was quite ready for what hit OU this season. How many young coaches would be? Not many, IMO.

 

[bocabull]

Kentucky's top 7 in minutes yesterday with Rivals recruiting ranking:

John Wall - 5 star - #1 in the nation
DeMarcus Cousins - 5 star - #2 in the nation
Patrick Patterson - 5 star - #17 in the nation
Daniel Orton - 5 star - #22 in the nation
Eric Bledsoe - 5 star - #23 in the nation
DeAndre Liggins - 4 star - #28 in the nation
Darius Miller - 4 star - #42 in the nation.

To put this in perspective Blake Griffin was a 5 star ranked #23 in the nation (tied for the 5th best prospect on this Kentucky team). Kentuckly has no Cade Davis, Tony Crocker, Ryan Wright even playing let alone starting.

If OU was playing

TMG
WW
Blake
Tiny

and 3 other top 30 recruits this might be a valid conversation.

 

[NickZepp]

TU is not saying we should be a top 2 team in the country right now. He's saying we shouldn't be out of the NIT right now. Youth isn't the reason we are just so bad.

 

[soonerroby]

Very true. All you need to do is look back to the "Fab Five". But, it takes a special kind of coach to win with freshman talent like what UK has this season. All those egos would be a huge challenge to deal with. I still believe Capel is a good, solid coach, but I don't believe he was quite ready for what hit OU this season. How many young coaches would be? Not many, IMO.

No freshman no matter their recruiting hype could have a bigger ego than Calipari. Maybe that helps his coaching young talent?

 

[chiron]

For every young team that is successful, one can find a young team that isn't.

ie. exception to every rule kind of thing. For most any argument, at least a single contradiction can be found

 

[bocabull]

Youth isn't the reason we are just so bad.

Correct. OU has been starting 2 seniors and a junior. The problem is those guys only give us 25 ppg on the season.

 

[NickZepp]

Correct. OU has been starting 2 seniors and a junior. The problem is those guys only give us 25 ppg on the season.

Freshmen haven't done much better in conference play. Only TMG has shown up out of the freshmen for the most part.

 

[bocabull]

It's all good Nick. Ever since Blake left early, based on the James/Reynolds defection and the limited scholarships from probation, this was going to be the leanest year. We all hoped 4 freshmen and Willie could carry us but it was too much of a stretch.

If Willie leaves next year will be a little lean too but hopefully he stays and we can be about what Missouri is this season with our 4 freshmen being 4 sophs to go along with WW.

Then in 2 years assuming no more exits we will finally be back to full strength.

 

[BAsooner]

Tiny is below the rim player. How could you say hes not

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Tiny is below the rim player. How could you say hes not

Since when does it even matter? My God. Kevin Bookout was a below the rim PF. So was Eduardo. Most are.

 

[Cheno]

Why is UK so good, considering they have one junior in their top 8 point scorers? The rest are split 3 (frosh) and 4 (sophs). They also have a first year coach.
You can say Wall, but I don't buy that the difference in Wall and TMG is the difference in being a top 3 team, and missing the NIT. Cousins was rated below Tiny, wasn't he?
On paper, I bet the talent is pretty similiar. Credit to Calipari for getting his kids to play hard and together.

I agree with you that youth is just an excuse. I disagree that the talent level between UK's players and OU's players is close. Kentucky's are much more talented. Calipari is a very good coach. I don't like him but gotta admit he's one of the best.

 

[38red]

Since when does it even matter? My God. Kevin Bookout was a below the rim PF. So was Eduardo. Most are.

It matters when RW, Tiny and Fitz don't even see or have the athleticism to challenge guards going for layups all day! Bookout was a very good help defender, his basketball IQ was better than any post player we have by a long shot. Fitz is the closes tho.

How much better would we be defensively with just Orton! and he the 3rd post at UK.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

How much better would we be defensively with just Orton! and he the 3rd post at UK.

Not very. Our guards can't defend, and having one "decent" big isn't going to change that. Too many holes for any one player to make a notable difference.

Also, why are we recruiting bigs that are neither athletic nor basketball smart?

 

[38red]

Not very. Our guards can't defend, and having one "decent" big isn't going to change that. Too many holes for any one player to make a notable difference.

It would change a lot. TC wouldn't be playing the 4 95% of time, and he is your best defensive guard!

TMG/ww
TC/ww
CD/tc
Fitz/ RW/TG
Orton/tg

The games that we have match up problems at the 4 go zone.(which is most) A player like Orton would make our zone better too!

 

[SoonerfanTU]

It would change a lot. TC wouldn't be playing the 4 95% of time, and he is your best defensive guard!

TMG/ww
TC/ww
CD/tc
Fitz/ RW/TG
Orton/tg

The games that we have match up problems at the 4 go zone.(which is most) A player like Orton would make our zone better too!

Crocker has done fine against most 4's. We haven't lost any games b/c Crocker didn't slow down the other team's PF. And if you add an extra big, you hurt the offense by replacing one of our 4 best players this year (TMG, WW, Crocker, Davis) with a big man that certainly won't help on defense.

Pick your poison. This team has more problems then defense at the center position.

 

[oSuJeff97]

I agree with you that youth is just an excuse. I disagree that the talent level between UK's players and OU's players is close. Kentucky's are much more talented.

But I don't believe the OP was arguing that OU should be ranked #2 either.

Just that, given the level of talent, they shouldn't be staring down the barrel of a losing season.

 

[38red]

Crocker has done fine against most 4's. We haven't lost any games b/c Crocker didn't slow down the other team's PF. And if you add an extra big, you hurt the offense by replacing one of our 4 best players this year (TMG, WW, Crocker, Davis) with a big man that certainly won't help on defense.

Pick your poison. This team has more problems then defense at the center position.

Not denying the problems. but it puts TC on the best guard(Clemente). Its easier to help a post player on d than it is a guard on d. It would make us a better defensive team, which is your biggest problem.

We dont have him so doesn't matter too!

 

[38red]

But I don't believe the OP was arguing that OU should be ranked #2 either.

Just that, given the level of talent, they shouldn't be staring down the barrel of a losing season.

All our "level of talent" is on the O too! Not any talent on D!

 

[topcat]

How many more games would we have won if Cal were coaching here? Or Sampson?

I put the blame at Jeff's feet for a lot of the personnel problems for this year.

 

[Romulus]

wonder what the records of the schools would be if Calipari was coaching this OU team and Capel was coaching the Kentucky team