About Stephen Pledger

gracefor24 said:
My response, if you note, was directed to sharp1 who said that "recruiting rankings mean nothing". Otherwise there is nothing that I posted that would disagree with what you have written.
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I also think it's important to stay away from these broad declarative statements like "recruiting rankings mean nothing." That, of course, is demonstrably untrue.

For me the bottom line is that some information is always better than no information, and more information is better than less information. We don't have to make a false choice like "If I have to pick between Coach Capel and the recruiting experts, I pick Coach Capel." Well, me too, but we don't have to do that. I say take it all in. Coach Capel, recruiting rankings, the schools that recruited the player, youtube videos, message board posters' first hand account, etc. You can and should weigh those differently, but I think it's silly to dismiss recruiting rankings out of hand simply because they are imperfect. So is Jeff Capel.
 
Tony said:
I also think it's important to stay away from these broad declarative statements like "recruiting rankings mean nothing." That, of course, is demonstrably untrue.

For me the bottom line is that some information is always better than no information, and more information is better than less information. We don't have to make a false choice like "If I have to pick between Coach Capel and the recruiting experts, I pick Coach Capel." Well, me too, but we don't have to do that. I say take it all in. Coach Capel, recruiting rankings, the schools that recruited the player, youtube videos, message board posters' first hand account, etc. You can and should weigh those differently, but I think it's silly to dismiss recruiting rankings out of hand simply because they are imperfect. So is Jeff Capel.
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Great post. Coaches make recruiting mistakes all the time and so do talent evaluators but for the most part they are pretty reliable.

Trusting internet posters on the other hand is not all that reliable. :)
 
sharp1 said:
I said all that to say, there more wrong about kids then right. You and I can pick Shaq, Tyreke Evens, Oj mayo, Mike Beasely, Derrick Rose...Remember they also Picked Marvin Williams, Maurice Evans, Bill walker, sean May, Ray Felton, Kwame Brown...Just to name a few.

Look at a kids skill set, see him play then judge, I've seen lots of AAU ball...Most of the one that get they Hype...dont' deserve it.
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what .. the guys you critized them about .. are all in the NBA ... and williams evans and felton play major roles ... and may has just been hurt ..

what are talking about ..
 
All I know concerning Pledger and next year is that Pledger, Davis, Willis and Tony Crocker all pretty much play the same position. Somebody from that group is either going to have to redshirt, transfer or just sit on the bench.

And I agree that we should have learned our lesson with Neysmith and Willis about Pledger coming right in and having a big role. He's a very similar recruit, status wise.
 
I guess we won't be hearing back about where his rankings came from?

:)
 
Tony said:
I also think it's important to stay away from these broad declarative statements like "recruiting rankings mean nothing." That, of course, is demonstrably untrue.

For me the bottom line is that some information is always better than no information, and more information is better than less information. We don't have to make a false choice like "If I have to pick between Coach Capel and the recruiting experts, I pick Coach Capel." Well, me too, but we don't have to do that. I say take it all in. Coach Capel, recruiting rankings, the schools that recruited the player, youtube videos, message board posters' first hand account, etc. You can and should weigh those differently, but I think it's silly to dismiss recruiting rankings out of hand simply because they are imperfect. So is Jeff Capel.
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Great post Tony! Spot on.
Gotta love the internet. In a thread about Stephen Pledger you can read about how "recruiting rankings mean nothing" then you can go to any Tiny Gallon or TMG thread and read about how highly ranked they are. :ez-laugh:
 
As I've said, I'll be happy if he we get any production out of Pledger next year. I recall stating Cade Davis was a 4 year role player and getting blasted. I think Pledger has a higher ceiling, but that's what we're getting for now. For now.
 
Cheno said:
Great post Tony! Spot on.
Gotta love the internet. In a thread about Stephen Pledger you can read about how "recruiting rankings mean nothing" then you can go to any Tiny Gallon or TMG thread and read about how highly ranked they are. :ez-laugh:
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You can also read posts like the one below from people who aren't that keen on the rankings, and yet they understand the difference between recruits like Tiny and TMG and those in the high end or just out of the top 100:

AdaSooner said:
Recruits in the top 50 who are candidates to be selected as a MickeyD AA or to the Jordan Classic are another matter entirely. In most cases, those kids are legit, although as Faithful pointed out, politics can (and does) play a role in their selection to those all-star teams.
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That still doesn't mean the rankings experts don't miss the mark on kids who deserve to be ranked a lot higher. Isn't that the point a few posters (myself included) have tried to make on this thread? I'm not predicting Steven Pledger or anyone in our 2009 class will have an immediate impact next year, and that includes TMG and Tiny. Freshmen usually experience a few bumps along the way in their transition from high school to college. What I am saying is that Pledger is better than his ranking on Rivals and Scout, and IMO he is going to surprise a few people.
 
I think Pledger is going to have a nice impact as a freshman. He shoots at a high percentage (3 pt, 2 pt and free throws). More importantly, in addition to score his stat lines indicate he rebounds, defends, and passes. If the information that has been provided on this board has been accurate, he had some really nice games against some top notch players in AAU ball.


I am pretty excited about Stephne Pledger. I think he is going to contribute more than Cade Davis did as a freshman and Cade made a very nice contribution as a freshman. My hope is that Pledger forces Coach Capel to play him about 15 minutes a game (what I mean by forces is that his performance in practices mandates time).
 
Cheno said:
Great post Tony! Spot on.
Gotta love the internet. In a thread about Stephen Pledger you can read about how "recruiting rankings mean nothing" then you can go to any Tiny Gallon or TMG thread and read about how highly ranked they are. :ez-laugh:
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I understand what you are saying but I believe a top 100 ranking is a big deal. There are over 300 D-1 programs. If each school takes 3 players a year (and that is actually low when you consider 13 scholarships divided by 4 years = 3.25) a top 100 player is (assuming the rankings are accurate) in the top 10% of all D-1 freshman. That is a really big deal and any kid ranked in the Top 100 has the potential to have a major impact at the college level.
 
DenverSooner said:
I understand what you are saying but I believe a top 100 ranking is a big deal. There are over 300 D-1 programs. If each school takes 3 players a year (and that is actually low when you consider 13 scholarships divided by 4 years = 3.25) a top 100 player is (assuming the rankings are accurate) in the top 10% of all D-1 freshman. That is a really big deal and any kid ranked in the Top 100 has the potential to have a major impact at the college level.
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Oh, I totally agree with what you said and Ada above. I think Pledger is going to surprise people. I think he's better than his ranking. I also think a top 100 ranking is very good. I just find it funny when people (not you too) say "recruiting rankings mean nothing" when "their" guy is rated what they think but then when the rating is what they think then they are hyping up rankings. Just makes me smile and shake my head. :D
But also keep in mind many of us, including myself, thought Ray Willis wasn't ranked high enough and was a sleeper. IMO, he was a disappointment as a freshmen. And I think a lot of it was just maturity. I guess that's why once you get past the top 50 or so it's really a crap shoot on what a guy will become. That being said, I think Pledgers skill set (mainly a dead eye shooter) has the makings of a big-time sleeper.
 
it'd be cool if we could all spell his name correctly.

i have lofty expectations of the kid, and i think he has the tools to be a big time player when it's all said and done.
 
Cheno said:
But also keep in mind many of us, including myself, thought Ray Willis wasn't ranked high enough and was a sleeper. IMO, he was a disappointment as a freshmen. And I think a lot of it was just maturity. I guess that's why once you get past the top 50 or so it's really a crap shoot on what a guy will become. That being said, I think Pledgers skill set (mainly a dead eye shooter) has the makings of a big-time sleeper.
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But Ray had some bad breaks. He got set back by the stabbing. I also think Omar was better than people think. It is just tough to put a solid senior on the bench because they have experience and don't make mistakes. When Ray did get in, he had a tendency to force things. Ray needs to learn to do things other than score so he can get some PT and then he will shine.
I still have high hopes for Ray and think he might still be underrated.
 
DenverSooner said:
But Ray had some bad breaks. He got set back by the stabbing. I also think Omar was better than people think. It is just tough to put a solid senior on the bench because they have experience and don't make mistakes. When Ray did get in, he had a tendency to force things. Ray needs to learn to do things other than score so he can get some PT and then he will shine.
I still have high hopes for Ray and think he might still be underrated.
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Trust me Denver, I haven't given up on Ray but my post was more an indication that to expect Pledger to come in his freshmen year and be very good may not be fair to him. It takes some time with kids with Ray Willis being a prime example. That being said, I also felt Willis had a disappointing season and more so for things that happened off the court than on. Like I said, I haven't given up on him but I'm not holding my breath either. I'm hoping he matures from his freshmen year and I think he will. He made a lot of mistakes but he also showed some resilience by sticking it out and not leaving.
 
I also think a top 100 ranking is very good. I just find it funny when people (not you too) say "recruiting rankings mean nothing" when "their" guy is rated what they think but then when the rating is what they think then they are hyping up rankings. Just makes me smile and shake my head.
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I guess I would fall in the category of recruiting rankings mean nothing. Well not exactly nothing, but not as much. You put the caviot on players in the top 100. I put in more in the caviot of top 50-75. You just have to be informed on what some of these recruiting guys are trying to do. In OU's case, they have been very kind on some recruits. I think Naismith and Early had no business as top 100 players. Same case with TG not being ranked at all. We all know politics plays a certain role in these things along with a kids work ethic, conduct, and team depth. When Matt Wenstrom makes the McDonalds team, you know politics plays a part. When the Wears make the McDonalds team you know that rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, of course schools are going to be more partial to their recruits. You sight Thomas Robinson as a guy at KU who will be a player, but with KU's depth, he might not leave the bench. It's obvious that Travis Releford was a little overrated. Alot of KU fans had Quintrell Thomas in the starting lineup. Kyle Hardrick spent most of his career in the top 150 based on nothing. The flip side is a guy like Keiton Page who was out of the top 150, but if anyone saw the guy play, they knew he was a player. Sad part about Keiton is he was the leading scorer at the Nike camp and still didn't get in the top 150.

So I think their definetely is an evaluation aspect to things that get's fuzzed out by the political aspect. We know rivals likes two things, tall players and players that commit to big schools. Rivals right now has Josh Smith, a 6'11 player out of Seattle as the top player. This guy isn't a top 20 guy in my opinion. Also, Rivals is going to continue to pump the recruiting efforts of KU and UK due to the coaching aspects, the fact they have great recruiting staffs, and the fact that talking about those schools pays the bills with subscriptions. Anybody those schools will sign will generally get a boost in the ratings.
 
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I don't see where Pledger gets much time next year. It's not that I think he is a poor player, just that he is a freshman and will be competing for playing time at the wing, where we have a number of returning players, including both starters. Crocker, Davis and Willis all play the wing, with Crocker being a three year starter, and WW, provided he isn't at the point, is the other returning starter. Like most freshman, I think Pledger will bide his time next year, and then try and get in the rotation his sophmore year.

I think Capel thinks more of Davis and Willis as players than most on this board. It is a little too early to see how they are going to turn out. For the record, I think both have a lot of potential, although I'm not sure we will see them break out next year. It could be the year after.

I have only seen video highlights of Pledger, and he looked really good in the clips. It strikes me that Capel has a pretty good eye for talent and if he has liked and recruited Pledger for a couple years then thats good enough for me.

when evaluating kids, I like to compare them to other kids. Here are my comparisions: TMG= Lawson, Pledger= Kelly Newton with better handles, Tiny= blair with an outside shot, Fitzpatrick= kid that started for George mason in the middle 2 years ago when they made their run in the tournament (can't think of his name, but was about 6'8, big and strong.) or the kid that started for A &M for the 3 years before this year (name escapes me at the moment). I have watched tiny play several times, but have only seen the others on video.
 
cowboysooner said:
I think Capel thinks more of Davis and Willis as players than most on this board.
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I think it is clear that Coach Capel thinks highly of Cade Davis. He got solid minutes as a freshman and the bulk of the back-up minutes as a sophomore.
 
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