Big Ten, ACC, Pac-12 alliance ?

[NickZepp]

This alliance is a joke. It's not even that solidified after a press announcement. They basically said they may schedule each other sometimes. LMAO.

 

[BCSooners]

This alliance is a joke. It's not even that solidified after a press announcement. They basically said they may schedule each other sometimes. LMAO.

Yep. Nothing was signed, and they built up this announcement just to basically say nothing.

 

[thebigabd]

Looking like BYU is target #1 for the Big 12, which I think is a great move.

All media outlets seem to agree at this point that expansion is the only option left for the remaining Big 12 schools... Nobody else took them in.

BYU - UCF - Boise State - Cincinnati make it a very good league for football.

They are going to have to grow the conference, there is no doubt... It's going to take 4-5 recruiting cycles for BYU, UCF, Boise, etc to really get to a P5 level that can go week in and week out if they get chosen... But long term I think there is a ton of promise.

I still think they should add two more and get to 14 to really change things up... At first I was thinking San Diego State and UNLV, because of premier locations and UNLV's new facilities (which is the best stadium for football in the world, arguably)... But I also like the option of adding one of the "out west" teams and another team from the east coast.... like South Florida, or East Carolina, etc.

East Carolina is kind of an interesting prospect.....

• In 2016 they were very public about wanting to join the Big 12...
• The Chancellor, President, and Athletic Director informed the Big 12 they want in... They went as far to say that they "deserve" to be in the Big 12.
• They have nearly 30,000 enrollment
• It's in an excellent recruiting area
• It creates another EST school along with UCF, Cincy, and WVU.
• It's the traditional "state school" campus and atmosphere
• They have a traditional football stadium with 50,000 capacity
• They wear purple uniforms
• They have significant potential if elevated to a better league

Division A
Oklahoma State
BYU
Kansas State
Kansas
Boise State
Iowa State
San Diego State/UNLV

Division B
TCU
Texas Tech
UCF
ECU
Baylor
WVU
Cincinnati

The league goes coast to coast.... has excellent potential in basketball, and adds the best "up and comers" available.... In basketball that's easily a 7 bid league.

East Carolina, San Diego State, etc would need to build... and that's fine. They need to grow their programs. When I first started watching Big 8/Big 12 football I remember OU and Nebraska beating teams like OSU and Baylor 60-0.

In 2000 Nebraska beat Baylor 59-0.... In 2001 Nebraska beat Baylor 48-7... But they built their program over time.... Nebraska fell off, and Baylor came up. It's happened before, and it will continue to happen as things shake up.

All the talk about these guys joining other leagues is over... the only option left is Big 12 expansion.

 

[WTSooner]

Expanding "coast to coast" isn't the answer. Even with adding teams, they take home amount for the Big 12 teams is about to decrease rather substantially. I really doubt WVU and EC want to travel to the West Coast for games, and vice versa. There is a reason no conferences are currently set up that way. I really don't think it's the answer.

BYU is annoying and not a great cultural fit, BUT the remaining Big 12 might not have an option but to consider them. As for UCF, EC, and Cincy, I'm not sure why they would jump to leave the AAC. Big 12, even after expansion, isn't a lock to succeed long-term. Matter of fact, I still think the long-term layout is that we end up with 4 or even 2 main football conferences.

We'll see how it all plays out, but I don't think it's as easy as you make it seem. And I still think Memphis (FedEx money) and Houston (metro-area, quality programs, and Fertita money) make a lot of sense.

 

[NickZepp]

Estimates say the Big 12 will go from making around 40 million a year to around 15 a year. Now the buyout from OU/Tx will probably make it more for a year or two but it'll still be substantially less than nearly 40 million these programs make. The first chance any of these programs have to go to major conferences they will take. So it'll have no long term stability. You can't make losing over 20 million a year work long term.

 

[thebigabd]

Expanding "coast to coast" isn't the answer. Even with adding teams, they take home amount for the Big 12 teams is about to decrease rather substantially. I really doubt WVU and EC want to travel to the West Coast for games, and vice versa. There is a reason no conferences are currently set up that way. I really don't think it's the answer.

BYU is annoying and not a great cultural fit, BUT the remaining Big 12 might not have an option but to consider them. As for UCF, EC, and Cincy, I'm not sure why they would jump to leave the AAC. Big 12, even after expansion, isn't a lock to succeed long-term. Matter of fact, I still think the long-term layout is that we end up with 4 or even 2 main football conferences.

We'll see how it all plays out, but I don't think it's as easy as you make it seem. And I still think Memphis (FedEx money) and Houston (metro-area, quality programs, and Fertita money) make a lot of sense.

The best bet is to simply make the most competitive league possible. All other issues can be worked out. The better the league, the better the TV money, etc.

The league I put forth is a legit league. Boise, Cincy, BYU, and UCF just add so much football value and potential. You could limit the travel by not going to California, and by having a coherent division setup.

In the setup below... OSU would play BYU, KSU, Kansas, Boise, UNLV, and ISU every year. Then rotate 3 games against the other division.

In your example... you say UCF wouldn't want to go west. But in their division they would play Cincy, ECU, WVU, TCU, Tech, and Baylor every year... Then rotate 3 games in the other division. Sometimes that would be Oklahoma, Kansas, etc. They would only end up going to west 1-2 times a year. Not a big deal.

Division A
Oklahoma State
BYU
Kansas State
Kansas
Boise State
Iowa State
UNLV

Division B
TCU
Texas Tech
UCF
ECU
Baylor
WVU
Cincinnati

All focus should be the best league possible, and I think this provides that. There are only 2 teams in this league that will take a lot to fully develop, and thats ECU and UNLV.

If you chop UNLV and go with Memphis for FedEx money, it would look like this (and the travel becomes better too). Memphis also has a lot more basketball potential in this scenario. I'd be fine swapping UNLV for Memphis if I was choosing expansion. They've been a lot better in football and basketball, and have Fedex. It's also more centrally located. UNLV has the best football venue in the world, and would add more "out west" for BYU and Boise, but whatever.

Division A
Oklahoma State
BYU
Kansas State
Kansas
Boise State
Iowa State
TCU

Division B
Texas Tech
Memphis
UCF
ECU
Baylor
WVU
Cincinnati

 

[hoopsaustin]

The best bet is to simply make the most competitive league possible. All other issues can be worked out. The better the league, the better the TV money, etc.

The league I put forth is a legit league. Boise, Cincy, BYU, and UCF just add so much football value and potential. You could limit the travel by not going to California, and by having a coherent division setup.

In the setup below... OSU would play BYU, KSU, Kansas, Boise, UNLV, and ISU every year. Then rotate 3 games against the other division.

In your example... you say UCF wouldn't want to go west. But in their division they would play Cincy, ECU, WVU, TCU, Tech, and Baylor every year... Then rotate 3 games in the other division. Sometimes that would be Oklahoma, Kansas, etc. They would only end up going to west 1-2 times a year. Not a big deal.

Division A
Oklahoma State
BYU
Kansas State
Kansas
Boise State
Iowa State
UNLV

Division B
TCU
Texas Tech
UCF
ECU
Baylor
WVU
Cincinnati

All focus should be the best league possible, and I think this provides that. There are only 2 teams in this league that will take a lot to fully develop, and thats ECU and UNLV.

If you chop UNLV and go with Memphis for FedEx money, it would look like this (and the travel becomes better too). Memphis also has a lot more basketball potential in this scenario. I'd be fine swapping UNLV for Memphis if I was choosing expansion. They've been a lot better in football and basketball, and have Fedex. It's also more centrally located. UNLV has the best football venue in the world, and would add more "out west" for BYU and Boise, but whatever.

Division A
Oklahoma State
BYU
Kansas State
Kansas
Boise State
Iowa State
TCU

Division B
Texas Tech
Memphis
UCF
ECU
Baylor
WVU
Cincinnati

No one cares about unlv.. not even unlv students (im marrying an unlv/native las vegan - she never went to 1 game ever). LV'ers largely don't even like the raiders being in las vegas or their stadium, they prefer their actual home team golden knights.

 

[NickZepp]

The Irate 8 are better off not expanding and keeping the money they get from OU/Tx for longer time and hoping the Pac 12 collapses in a few years and add schools like the Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, Utah in a few years. Maybe add some other schools around that time to get to 16 and get a reasonable deal. That is the only hope they got.

 

[WTSooner]

The best bet is to simply make the most competitive league possible. All other issues can be worked out. The better the league, the better the TV money, etc.

That is not true. It's all about tv money, and that is all about viewership.

It doesn't matter how good some of those teams are, there just aren't going to be enough eyeballs watching them week in and week out to generate that kind of income. It's just not going to happen. I was slow to accept that as well. If that stuff mattered at all, financially, this realignment stuff would be happening a lot differently. The fact that it isn't just points back to the fact that it's all about the viewership.

 

[thebigabd]

That is not true. It's all about tv money, and that is all about viewership.

It doesn't matter how good some of those teams are, there just aren't going to be enough eyeballs watching them week in and week out to generate that kind of income. It's just not going to happen. I was slow to accept that as well. If that stuff mattered at all, financially, this realignment stuff would be happening a lot differently. The fact that it isn't just points back to the fact that it's all about the viewership.

Wrong mindset.... it's all about TV money if the old conference alignments were holding up, but now they are destroyed.

Top Tier - Primary motivation is TV money

• Pac 12
• Big 10
• SEC
• ACC

Tier II - TV money is a consideration, but just having a league is a bigger concern

• Mountain West
• American
• Conference USA

Third Tier - TV money is minimal, and the conferences are more aligned geographically
MAC
Sun Belt

If the Big 12 does what I suggest, they will have more of the Tier II mentality but the conference itself will be stronger than the Tier II schools... They would basically be carving out a spot of their own between Tier II and Top Tier.

You guys aren't presenting legitimate options... For the remaining Big 12 schools, they are just going to have to get smaller and have less TV money. There is no way around it. They have no options left. You guys claim that they can't live on $20 million less in TV money... Why not? UCF survives without huge TV money... Boise survives without huge TV money.

Waiting for the Pac 12 to fail isn't a proactive option... Plus all the schools you mentioned there would be scoffed at for the same reason you guys are scoffing at BYU, UCF, Boise, and Cincy.... Colorado, Arizona, etc aren't much different. Colorado sucks horribly, so does Arizona... UCF, Boise, Cincy, and BYU are all much better options.

It's not like the facilities of the remaining programs are ANY different than whats at the proposed expansion schools...

 

[Sooner04]

abd,

Every bit of this is about TV money. All sense of fairness, rivalry, geography.....it's all out the window.

 

[thebigabd]

abd,

Every bit of this is about TV money. All sense of fairness, rivalry, geography.....it's all out the window.

Right, for all the programs in the "First Tier" conferences. The other conferences get like $8 million a year. Big deal. The big 12 is no longer in that list.

You guys are still operating with the mindset that the remaining Big 12 teams are First Tier. They are now $10 million a year TV deal teams. Maybe more.... but not much.

Don't apply OU standards to ISU, Boise State, Kansas State, OSU, Texas Tech, etc.

 

[WTSooner]

Right, for all the programs in the "First Tier" conferences. The other conferences get like $8 million a year. Big deal. The big 12 is no longer in that list.

You guys are still operating with the mindset that the remaining Big 12 teams are First Tier. They are now $10 million a year TV deal teams. Maybe more.... but not much.

Don't apply OU standards to ISU, Boise State, Kansas State, OSU, Texas Tech, etc.

I see what you are saying, but I think tv markets and eyeballs still matters. Those conferences will have tv contracts coming up at some point too.

 

[thebigabd]

I see what you are saying, but I think tv markets and eyeballs still matters. Those conferences will have tv contracts coming up at some point too.

Sure, and when the Big 12 raids the best teams from the MWC and AAC the value will increase for the Big 12, and decrease for those other leagues. Maybe the new Big 12 will be like $12 to $15 million a year teams.... and MWC will stay around $5 million along with the American.

The MWC will then move and pick up teams like Idaho and some other crap teams with no potential to replace Boise State... The American will probably raid C-USA... C-USA will raid the sun belt, etc... Or maybe the American and C-USA join forces. Who knows.

 

[NickZepp]

abd,

Every bit of this is about TV money. All sense of fairness, rivalry, geography.....it's all out the window.

The AAC is trying to go coast to coast essentially and it's a disaster. The fact is the Big 12 as it will be may be a decent basketball league with teams like Memphis. Cincinnati. BYU added. But that won't give them any real football money which is where you get money to pay for everything else. The Irate8 are best off not adding a ton of teams because they would lose the buy out money from OU/Tx faster. They are already going to lose their future contract money and be around the level of the AAC or MWC in tv deals. If a PAC 12 collapses then you got a chance to add enough teams in a region to maybe give you close to the money you lose from OU/Tx but it's still not at that level. But adding teams right away would be losing money right away that they won't get back.

 

[WTSooner]

The PAC is not going to collapse.

 

[thebigabd]

The AAC is trying to go coast to coast essentially and it's a disaster. The fact is the Big 12 as it will be may be a decent basketball league with teams like Memphis. Cincinnati. BYU added. But that won't give them any real football money which is where you get money to pay for everything else. The Irate8 are best off not adding a ton of teams because they would lose the buy out money from OU/Tx faster. They are already going to lose their future contract money and be around the level of the AAC or MWC in tv deals. If a PAC 12 collapses then you got a chance to add enough teams in a region to maybe give you close to the money you lose from OU/Tx but it's still not at that level. But adding teams right away would be losing money right away that they won't get back.

Disagree, but understand your position.

 

[NickZepp]

The PAC is not going to collapse.

It's not likely but I don't see them getting that good a deal when their TV contract comes up in a couple years. They can't even get the PAC 12 network on all providers as it is. The real reason they won't expand anytime soon is because they aren't getting enough money.

 

[hoopsaustin]

The AAC is trying to go coast to coast essentially and it's a disaster. The fact is the Big 12 as it will be may be a decent basketball league with teams like Memphis. Cincinnati. BYU added. But that won't give them any real football money which is where you get money to pay for everything else. The Irate8 are best off not adding a ton of teams because they would lose the buy out money from OU/Tx faster. They are already going to lose their future contract money and be around the level of the AAC or MWC in tv deals. If a PAC 12 collapses then you got a chance to add enough teams in a region to maybe give you close to the money you lose from OU/Tx but it's still not at that level. But adding teams right away would be losing money right away that they won't get back.

I'm sure part of the contract of any new teams going into the big/small 12 would say that they are disclaiming any interest in the funds from any prospective buy out from OU/UT. And any new team added, stands to gain way more $$ and prestige leaving their even crappier conferences (other than they run the risk of the big/small 12 dissolving later on down the road, but i think most teams will make that leap even just for the instant credibility boost) So i do not see the buyout money being an issue.

Something will get worked out on our leaving before 2022 season IMO.

Idk if big/small 12 will add new teams or if it will dissolve.. i think it largely depends on KU and then most likely, OSU (as much as it pains me to actually acknowledge that their "brand" has grown..).

 

[WaymanFan]

Well, here are the four favorites to make up the new Big XII Conference:

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...p-candidates-big-12-expansion-sources-confirm

It's probably the best they can do under the circumstances...BYU is a bit "high maintenance", but overall, not a bad list. Adding Cincinnati gives WVU a local rival, Houston (thanks to Kelvin) will help with basketball, but need to upgrade their football program. UCF appears to be the weak link here...but dipping into the Florida market may be more lucrative than Idaho.