Calipari takes on the NCAA

[bocabull]

Neither will the players in revenue producing sports. That's what we're trying to tell you.

Blake Griffin, Adrian Peterson, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Shabazz Napier, Johnny Manziel are athletes I have mentioned. I specifically said somebody like Cade Davis would not qualify. Can you read?

I have said time after time the large wealth management firms would deploy underwriting policies to determine who would qualify. Its obvious a lot of you don't have a clue how advisory services monetize their clients assets under management. Why do you think the Merrill Lynch guy loaned Tiny Gallon the money to pay his tuition? Because he wanted him as a client to charge 2% on his AUM once he became a pro.

What Calipari is proposing would legalize this type of arrangement and once regulated would benefit everybody while hurting nobody.

But again, it's obviously way over your head.

 

[DenverSooner]

But again, it's obviously way over your head.

Or yours.

 

[Section31]

Blake Griffin, Adrian Peterson, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Shabazz Napier, Johnny Manziel are athletes I have mentioned. I specifically said somebody like Cade Davis would not qualify. Can you read?

I have said time after time the large wealth management firms would deploy underwriting policies to determine who would qualify. Its obvious a lot of you don't have a clue how advisory services monetize their clients assets under management. Why do you think the Merrill Lynch guy loaned Tiny Gallon the money to pay his tuition? Because he wanted him as a client to charge 2% on his AUM once he became a pro.

What Calipari is proposing would legalize this type of arrangement and once regulated would benefit everybody while hurting nobody.

But again, it's obviously way over your head.

I wasn't the one who made the blanket distinction between revenue and non-revenue athletes. That was your intelligent interjection.

 

[Soonercuda]

Nonsense.

When you factor in the cost of EVERYTHING a player gets, not even AD or Manziel is worth more than they are getting.

If college football players are pissed about having to go to school for two years, they need to convince the NFL to start some kind of minor league system like baseball has, and like the NBA is sort of trying to do with the NBAD League. It isn't the fault of the NCAA that they have to go to school, and the NCAA doesn't owe them anything.

I find the bolded part of your post to be simply wrong...how do you measure worth...I measure it by fair market value in an open market. What do you think would happen if all NCAA rules were suspended and schools were allowed to offer salaries to players. I am quite sure there would be a huge bidding war and the top players in football and basketball (recruits and even moreso proven players) would be offered salaries in excess of $500,000/yr. In my way of thinking this is what would establish a players fair market value. We presently don't have an open market because the schools (employers) collude through the NCAA to restrict what is paid players.

As a fan I am perfectly happy with the current system. But considering we live in a society that values free market capitalism I don't believe the current system is fair particularly to the football and basketball players.

 

[Section31]

I find the bolded part of your post to be simply wrong...how do you measure worth...I measure it by fair market value in an open market. What do you think would happen if all NCAA rules were suspended and schools were allowed to offer salaries to players. I am quite sure there would be a huge bidding war and the top players in football and basketball (recruits and even moreso proven players) would be offered salaries in excess of $500,000/yr. In my way of thinking this is what would establish a players fair market value. We presently don't have an open market because the schools (employers) collude through the NCAA to restrict what is paid players.

As a fan I am perfectly happy with the current system. But considering we live in a society that values free market capitalism I don't believe the current system is fair particularly to the football and basketball players.

Not true. Most D1 schools are state funded and wouldn't be allowed to do this. You just can't compare the two since 99.9% of the players at a school get way more FROM the school than they give.

 

[Soonercuda]

Not true. Most D1 schools are state funded and wouldn't be allowed to do this. You just can't compare the two since 99.9% of the players at a school get way more FROM the school than they give.

Why....schools hire all sorts of employees. Schools presently compete for top students all the time and offer them scholarships and paid jobs. The students are allowed to negiotiate and have Universities compete to have them.

 

[Section31]

Why....schools hire all sorts of employees. Schools presently compete for top students all the time and offer them scholarships and paid jobs. The students are allowed to negiotiate and have Universities compete to have them.

State funded schools can only offer what the state allows. If you look at Bob Stoops actual salary, his base salary is fairly small and is limited by the state.

The average scholarship student doesn't negotiate squat. They are presented with what the scholarship covers, just like the athletes. They can decide whether to take it or not.

The problem with the comparison between the average student and the athletes are the athletes are receiving an ENORMOUS amount of aid as it relates to their sport which is essentially their job and that job covers the cost of all the expenses the university incurs providing those things. You have to remember that the school loses their asses on 99.9% of the athletes they are supporting. The Adrian Peterson's of the world, and there's very few of them, are the only ones who the university MIGHT get their money's worth on. Even that's tenuous at probably 99% of the schools.

 

[Soonercuda]

State funded schools can only offer what the state allows. If you look at Bob Stoops actual salary, his base salary is fairly small and is limited by the state.

https://data.ok.gov/Finance-and-Administration/State-of-Oklahoma-Payroll-Q1-2012/dqi7-zvab

Go to the above website...sort it by amount paid and you will see Bob got paid $1,024,024 by the State of Oklahoma for Q1 of 2012 (first payroll qtr that came up in my google search). It is a myth that the State restricts payment amounts to employees. OU can pay what it needs to get the talent required to run the University as Boren and the Board of Regents believes is prudent.

 

[Soonercuda]

The average scholarship student doesn't negotiate squat. They are presented with what the scholarship covers, just like the athletes. They can decide whether to take it or not.

I am sure you are correct that most scholarships are take it or leave it. However, not all of them are...top students particularly in highly sought after fields like engineering, hard sciences, etc. do negotiate and are competed for by Universities. Why shouldn't athletes that are highly sought after be allowed to do the same.

 

[Section31]

https://data.ok.gov/Finance-and-Administration/State-of-Oklahoma-Payroll-Q1-2012/dqi7-zvab

Go to the above website...sort it by amount paid and you will see Bob got paid $1,024,024 by the State of Oklahoma for Q1 of 2012 (first payroll qtr that came up in my google search). It is a myth that the State restricts payment amounts to employees. OU can pay what it needs to get the talent required to run the University as Boren and the Board of Regents believes is prudent.

That's my point. Bob actually makes 4-5 million. And he pays taxes on said earnings. The state only allows state funded pay to be a certain amount. Bob is a 15 year plus employee of the state. A proven money maker. He's paid for his performance and how that translates to the school making money. It's no different than the student athletes except 99%of them are WAAAAY overpaid. Why would we want to allow kids who have no market value on their own to hold a gun to our head? If the school is paying them, they HAVE to pay them all the same. When you average in the majority/non-starters, it's EASY to see they are compensated more than fairly.

 

[Section31]

I am sure you are correct that most scholarships are take it or leave it. However, not all of them are...top students particularly in highly sought after fields like engineering, hard sciences, etc. do negotiate and are competed for by Universities. Why shouldn't athletes that are highly sought after be allowed to do the same.

Possibly at private universities.

 

[Soonercuda]

That's my point. Bob actually makes 4-5 million. And he pays taxes on said earnings. The state only allows state funded pay to be a certain amount. Bob is a 15 year plus employee of the state. A proven money maker. He's paid for his performance and how that translates to the school making money. It's no different than the student athletes except 99%of them are WAAAAY overpaid. Why would we want to allow kids who have no market value on their own to hold a gun to our head? If the school is paying them, they HAVE to pay them all the same. When you average in the majority/non-starters, it's EASY to see they are compensated more than fairly.

The $1,024,024 is just for Q1 for Bob...multiply by 4 and you are over $4 million.

As to your other points, the free market will sort this out. Athletes that provide little value will only be compensated with a small compensation package (a scholarship or a 25% scholarship). Those with a lot of value will receive more.

Realistically a move to a free market based system won't happen overnight. Too disruptive and too many entrenched interest will fight it. But over time I think it will happen at least for the big money sports.

 

[Section31]

The $1,024,024 is just for Q1 for Bob...multiply by 4 and you are over $4 million.

As to your other points, the free market will sort this out. Athletes that provide little value will only be compensated with a small compensation package (a scholarship or a 25% scholarship). Those with a lot of value will receive more.

Realistically a move to a free market based system won't happen overnight. Too disruptive and too many entrenched interest will fight it. But over time I think it will happen at least for the big money sports.

Too many legalities to assign a player's worth. The irony is, the actual player with any kind of worth AND that are complaining aren't in school more than a couple of years anyway.

 

[Section31]

The $1,024,024 is just for Q1 for Bob...multiply by 4 and you are over $4 million.

As to your other points, the free market will sort this out. Athletes that provide little value will only be compensated with a small compensation package (a scholarship or a 25% scholarship). Those with a lot of value will receive more.

Realistically a move to a free market based system won't happen overnight. Too disruptive and too many entrenched interest will fight it. But over time I think it will happen at least for the big money sports.

I never found him on that list. I'd venture to guess that is check amount and not salary.

 

[BoulderSooner]

That is correct. There is an actual transfer of funds from the athletic dept. to the school for the cost of the athletes tuition. I don't know about the out of state part. I was under the assumption that all athletes tuition was paid at the instate rate. But, I could be wrong about that.

At lower levels of competition. Those without athletic scholarships. The institution may grant full or partial tuition waivers for ball players. At Div 1 the athletic department pays the freight out of revenues.

this is not at every school ... infact one of the ways subsidized Athletic depts function is by the school not making the AD pay the tution

 

[Soonercuda]

I never found him on that list. I'd venture to guess that is check amount and not salary.

If you want to see his name and pay...after you pull up the website scroll to the right and you will see a column titled "amount". Click on "amount" twice and it will sort it highest paid to lowest. As you would expect the highest paid are mostly coaches/Joe C/Holder at OU and OSU. Also highly paid are some Doctors at OUHSC.

 

[BoulderSooner]

That is simply a journal entry from 1 department to the other. There is very little variable cost of providing the education. Food & housing costs real money. Sitting in on existing classes does not.

at some schools you might be correct ... NOT at OU .. the athletic dept is run totally separate with a different (self sufficient budget)

OU ad donates money to the school almost every year ..

 

[Section31]

this is not at every school ... infact one of the ways subsidized Athletic depts function is by the school not making the AD pay the tution

It's still an expense to the university.

 

[snydrosooner]

I find the bolded part of your post to be simply wrong...how do you measure worth...I measure it by fair market value in an open market. What do you think would happen if all NCAA rules were suspended and schools were allowed to offer salaries to players. I am quite sure there would be a huge bidding war and the top players in football and basketball (recruits and even moreso proven players) would be offered salaries in excess of $500,000/yr. In my way of thinking this is what would establish a players fair market value. We presently don't have an open market because the schools (employers) collude through the NCAA to restrict what is paid players.

As a fan I am perfectly happy with the current system. But considering we live in a society that values free market capitalism I don't believe the current system is fair particularly to the football and basketball players.

So lets say AD could have gone straight to the NFL. Are you saying he would get a contract for 500,000 dollars as an 18 or 19 year old kid? I don't beleive that for a second. He may get paid, but it would be for much less until he proved himself. OU gave him the chance to prove himself. NFL does not want to pay these kids out of High school because they need more time to develop there bodies. This paying players is an NFL and player issue not a NCAA issue. The player does not have to go to college, but the NFL does not offer minor leagues. If they want to play in college, they need to live by the NCAA rules. If they don't want to live by NCAA rules, start your own proffessional league. I am not against making sure the students have spending money, but some of these arguments are reaching.

 

[Soonercuda]

So lets say AD could have gone straight to the NFL. Are you saying he would get a contract for 500,000 dollars as an 18 or 19 year old kid? I don't beleive that for a second. He may get paid, but it would be for much less until he proved himself. OU gave him the chance to prove himself. NFL does not want to pay these kids out of High school because they need more time to develop there bodies. This paying players is an NFL and player issue not a NCAA issue. The player does not have to go to college, but the NFL does not offer minor leagues. If they want to play in college, they need to live by the NCAA rules. If they don't want to live by NCAA rules, start your own proffessional league. I am not against making sure the students have spending money, but some of these arguments are reaching.

Yes in a free market world I think several schools, OU, Texas, Bama, Fla, etc would have lined up and offered $500k+ for an Adrian Peterson.