Can Capel coach basketball at an Elite level?

[Big Old Booger]

Yeah although Warren was the 2nd best player he recruited. But I agree with this assessment. It could be his coaching being bad instead of his recruiting though.

WW could have been the 2nd best player he recruited, but WW was a malcontent and really only played 1.5 seasons in Norman. He wasn't a lottery pick and frankly did more to destroy the program than build it up.

I'd say WW had the 2nd best amount of potential, but due to the factors above he was another recruiting bust, in a long line of Capel recruiting busts.

 

[thebigabd]

Capel is failing at an alarming rate. In just five years he will post 3 of the worst seasons in OU history and one season that was average at best. ou is not a program that celebrated seasons that were one game above .500 in conference play. now people act. Like that is some great accomplishment.

This is the main thing here... How people can ignore 3 out of 5 being terrible seasons for OU basketball, and just recently only winning 8 out of his last 20 games is beyond me.

This is OU basketball. Not Nebraska, not Colorado. Hell, they may have higher expectations than OU has right now.

 

[stoops4pres]

The only times longer longer got significant minutes prior to Capel he performed well. I know many failed to recognize longer would be goo but it was obvious the kid could score points. He was a top 100 recruit and had done it before Capel arrived. Johnson started as a freshman. How exactly did Tony Crocker develop?

If you're inferring that Longar wasn't a much better player from the time he stepped on campus up until his eligibility expired then I don't know if you were paying close attention; he significantly improved under Capel.

And the transformation may not have been as apparent, but Johnson was also a better player as his career progressed. The same can be said for Taylor and Blake (Blake was a stud as a freshman but improved tremendously the next year).

There's no doubt Capel has made some awful recruiting decisions and that is clearly showing right now. But just because he has struggled in that regard doesn't mean he nor his staff shouldn't be given credit for development amongst the players when they have proven to do so.

 

[quick release]

i guess phil jackson isnt really a good coach. He's always had the best player in the league so that must mean he cant win without the best talent.

 

[inoref]

i guess phil jackson isnt really a good coach. He's always had the best player in the league so that must mean he cant win without the best talent.

Last time I seen a NBA game it was a little different than the college game.
Capel is okay, not the best at game management but okay as a recruiter for OU.

 

[Big Old Booger]

If you're inferring that Longar wasn't a much better player from the time he stepped on campus up until his eligibility expired then I don't know if you were paying close attention; he significantly improved under Capel.

And the transformation may not have been as apparent, but Johnson was also a better player as his career progressed. The same can be said for Taylor and Blake (Blake was a stud as a freshman but improved tremendously the next year).

There's no doubt Capel has made some awful recruiting decisions and that is clearly showing right now. But just because he has struggled in that regard doesn't mean he nor his staff shouldn't be given credit for development amongst the players when they have proven to do so.

I always like your posts, but I have to disagree with you on LL. Capel had nothing to do with his development. If anything his development is due to the coach who left for a lateral job at Marshall. He was a good coach of big men.

 

[DenverSooner]

If you're inferring that Longar wasn't a much better player from the time he stepped on campus up until his eligibility expired then I don't know if you were paying close attention; he significantly improved under Capel.

And the transformation may not have been as apparent, but Johnson was also a better player as his career progressed. The same can be said for Taylor and Blake (Blake was a stud as a freshman but improved tremendously the next year).

There's no doubt Capel has made some awful recruiting decisions and that is clearly showing right now. But just because he has struggled in that regard doesn't mean he nor his staff shouldn't be given credit for development amongst the players when they have proven to do so.

For the most part, everyone improves. Longar was productive at OU every time he got significant mintues include when he was a freshman and sophomore under Sampson. There were only two games (one each year) where he got a lot of minutes but he put up big numbers both times. I fully expected Longar to score when he got his opportunity. The problem was that Taj and Bookout were simply better players. As a result, Longar did not get much opportunity under Sampson.

I personally don't see the development you claim to see. I really didn't even see great development in Blake Griffin. He was fantastic day one and made what I would call a fairly normal leap from his freshman to sophomore year. Blake was clearly a lottery pick his freshman year.

 

[stoops4pres]

I always like your posts, but I have to disagree with you on LL. Capel had nothing to do with his development. If anything his development is due to the coach who left for a lateral job at Marshall. He was a good coach of big men.

Not sure if you saw that I credited his staff as well in my previous post, but yeah I agree with your point: It wasn't just Capel that attributed or should be considered the source; his staff should be factored in as well for whatever improvements were made.

I'll just agree to disagree with you on whether or not Capel had anything to do with his development. I thought Longar made great strides compared to the beginning of his career until his career was over. But that's my opinion.

That's fine if you are going to give Cline credit but not Capel... But don't you think Capel should get recognition for hiring Cline on his staff? If you are going to give credit to Cline, I think crediting the man that made the decision to bring Cline along is fair.

 

[stoops4pres]

For the most part, everyone improves.

So since you say that Capel didn't have anything to do with the development of the players, are you saying that the players just improved on their own? With no tutelage or guidance? If that is what you are saying, then I think you are mistaken.

Longar was productive at OU every time he got significant mintues include when he was a freshman and sophomore under Sampson. There were only two games (one each year) where he got a lot of minutes but he put up big numbers both times. I fully expected Longar to score when he got his opportunity. The problem was that Taj and Bookout were simply better players. As a result, Longar did not get much opportunity under Sampson.

I also remember the games Longar did see some minutes in which he was a non-factor. Entirely different as opposed to his senior year, when he was a factor almost every game he played in. I also don't remember his post moves being near as efficient nor deep compared to later in his career. Not to mention, his foot work also improved greatly. Not all of this is strictly attributed to Capel, but I think its unfair for him not to receive any credit period.

I personally don't see the development you claim to see. I really didn't even see great development in Blake Griffin. He was fantastic day one and made what I would call a fairly normal leap from his freshman to sophomore year. Blake was clearly a lottery pick his freshman year.

Blake his freshman year: 14.7 ppg 9 rebounds 56% field goal

Blake his sophomore year: 22.7 ppg 14.4 rebounds 65% field goal

If you don't see a significant leap based on production alone, then I don't know what else to tell you. That's not including intangibles that I thought he improved on as well (i.e. passing out of double-teams). I think Capel deserves some credit instead of no credit at all for Blake's improvement.

 

[DenverSooner]

Blake his freshman year: 14.7 ppg 9 rebounds 56% field goal

Blake his sophomore year: 22.7 ppg 14.4 rebounds 65% field goal

If you don't see a significant leap based on production alone, then I don't know what else to tell you. That's not including intangibles that I thought he improved on as well (i.e. passing out of double-teams). I think Capel deserves some credit instead of no credit at all for Blake's improvement.

And a normal PF scores 6 as a freshman and 10 as a sophomore or something like that. The percentages are virtually identical. Blake's numbers improved inspite of Capel not due to Capel.

Longar scored big points both times he got significant minutes prior to his junior season. If you want to believe Capel did some great job of coaching Longar then believe that, I think Longar is responsible for Longar's improvement and that it was not as significant as most OU fans think. Not many guys can play 8-12 minutes a game and produce much. When Longar got 25+ his freshman and sophomore years he produced. Granted it was against weak competition but he produced. I fully expected Longar to score 10+ a game as a junior and senior and I said it on numerous occassions.

 

[stoops4pres]

And a normal PF scores 6 as a freshman and 10 as a sophomore or something like that. The percentages are virtually identical. Blake's numbers improved inspite of Capel not due to Capel.

The percentage increases might be the same, but it still doesn't equate from a low:moderate level (with the example you gave) as opposed to a very productive : outrageously productive level (with Blake's situation). I don't think its an every day occurrence that a player's production proliferates when they are already producing at a high rate.

Of course there were other factors that accompanied Blake's improvement (his training in the off-season, another year of experience), but I can't agree with the notion that he improved regardless of Capel's coaching. I don't think that's correct.

Longar scored big points both times he got significant minutes prior to his junior season. If you want to believe Capel did some great job of coaching Longar then believe that, I think Longar is responsible for Longar's improvement and that it was not as significant as most OU fans think. Not many guys can play 8-12 minutes a game and produce much. When Longar got 25+ his freshman and sophomore years he produced. Granted it was against weak competition but he produced. I fully expected Longar to score 10+ a game as a junior and senior and I said it on numerous occassions.

I guess its just me, but I'm not going to deduce that Longar would have contributed and was the same player throughout his entire career because his only two times to shine were against the worst opponents on OU's respective schedules. I agree that he would have shined more had he not been behind two good players in their own right with Taj and Bookout, but I saw improvements with the reasons (regardless of amount of playing time) I posted before. But that's my opinion.

And I'm not suggesting Capel nor his staff alone worked some miracle with Longar (or any of the players). Like I previously noted, other factors were included. All I'm saying is that I don't think Capel should be completely dismissed from the discussion; I don't think its a coincidence that the aforementioned players under his administration improved, nor was it just on the players alone. I think Capel deserves some credit.

 

[campbest]

And a normal PF scores 6 as a freshman and 10 as a sophomore or something like that. The percentages are virtually identical. Blake's numbers improved inspite of Capel not due to Capel.

Are you really equating that an increase from 6 ppg to 10 ppg is the same as 14.7 to 22.7 from a difficulty standpoint? This isn't the law of definite proportions.

 

[DenverSooner]

Are you really equating that an increase from 6 ppg to 10 ppg is the same as 14.7 to 22.7 from a difficulty standpoint? This isn't the law of definite proportions.

Yes, I am really suggesting that a freshman lottery pick going from 14.7 a game to 22.7 is not substantially different than a freshman starter that is not an NBA player going from 6 to 10 points a game. In both cases the difference is due primarily to adjusting to the speed, physical nature and defense at the college level compared to high school. Blake was in better shape and able to give better effort in his second year. He was also a smarter player from having played a season of college ball.

Jeff Capel did not make Blake Griffin a great player. Similary Blake Griffin did not make Jeff Capel a great coach. Blake Griffin did carry Jeff Capel. I am not going to knock Capel for Blake Griffin but many want to suggest Blake Griffin proves something about Coach Capel and this is ridiculous. Develop another player and then we can talk about it. Billy Tubbs produced a lot more than Wayman Tisdale and Tubbs was not responsible for Tisdale's greatness. Tisdale was simply great just like Blake Griffin.