Caravan Report

[35TangoTango]

I always remember her athletically blocking shots from behind - on players she let get past her.

In answer to Norm's definition, I don't think athleticism is just quickness, or that quickness has to me the biggest component.

 

[sybarite]

I always remember her athletically blocking shots from behind - on players she let get past her.

In answer to Norm's definition, I don't think athleticism is just quickness, or that quickness has to me the biggest component.

I don't really know how her quickness compared, although I thought she was as quick as any forward that we had had. But, I thought she could jump out of sight. Those blocks from behind often required that she be able to leap high enough to block the shot without touching the player. I remember the double blocks and the passes for breaks. She rebounded because of her athleticism. Although strong, she could jump high enough to contend with taller players. My first impression was of her jumping over everyone in the lane in the McDonald's All-American game, getting rebounds by being a foot higher than anyone else.

 

[SoonerNorm]

You don't have to be really athletic to rebound. Look at CP and Jo. Neither of those girls are quick nor can they jump high but they could rebound at a high level. They did so by positioning, good hands, and determination. I agree that Amanda could jump better than those two but that doesn't mean she's a great leaper. Compare her to Ny who could grab the rim. Amanda was not in that league.

 

[sybarite]

I think that where Tango and I disagree with the "lack of athleticism" of Amanda is in that we think that Amanda did what she did because she was an athlete and might have done better had she had a few basketball skills, like a shooting touch. It does lead to some interesting conjecture about what is meant when some suggest that we need more athletic prospects. Exactly what is meant by athleticism? I regard Amanda and Ny as being outstanding athletes, limited only by their lack of acquisition of basketball skills until they came to OU.

 

[SoonerNorm]

I always remember her athletically blocking shots from behind - on players she let get past her.

In answer to Norm's definition, I don't think athleticism is just quickness, or that quickness has to me the biggest component.

What is your definition of athleticism? What do you think Sherri meant by her comment involving Amanda?

 

[35TangoTango]

What is your definition of athleticism? What do you think Sherri meant by her comment involving Amanda?

(1) The ability to make your body perform in an above average way. It can involve speed, jumping ability, hang time,reaction time, or any combination of those.

(2) I have no clue about the comment involving Amanda. I have only heard it 2nd or 3rd hand, and I have no idea who she was talking about. Discounting it until there's more information.

 

[SoonerNorm]

(1) The ability to make your body perform in an above average way. It can involve speed, jumping ability, hang time,reaction time, or any combination of those.

(2) I have no clue about the comment involving Amanda. I have only heard it 2nd or 3rd hand, and I have no idea who she was talking about. Discounting it until there's more information.

Speaking of hang time, I have always thought that is a myth due to the laws of physics. Am I wrong about that?

 

[BanjoCharley]

You are correct with the exception of Wylie Coyote, gravity effects us all the same.

 

[sybarite]

There is a difference in jumping through an arc as opposed to going straight up and down. It's somewhat like going twenty-seven feet through the air with a long jump versus seven feet with a high jump. You would get a bit more "hang time" with a more horizontal jump, although you wouldn't jump as high. If you get a running start and jump, you can perceptibly hang in the air longer than if you just jump straight up. The force is in the vertical and horizontal vector.

 

[BanjoCharley]

Yes the force is determined by the vertical and horizontal vector however the sole determination of amount of time in the air (disregarding lift and air friction as well as escape velocity) is the height of the jump and gravity which is constant.

 

[35TangoTango]

Yes the force is determined by the vertical and horizontal vector however the sole determination of amount of time in the air (disregarding lift and air friction as well as escape velocity) is the height of the jump and gravity which is constant.

That's not absolutely correct. It's not the height of the jump, it's both the vertical and horizontal components of the lifting force. Think long jumper vs high jumper.

But here we are digressing again. Athleticism is not just speed.

 

[SoonerNorm]

That's not absolutely correct. It's not the height of the jump, it's both the vertical and horizontal components of the lifting force. Think long jumper vs high jumper.

But here we are digressing again. Athleticism is not just speed.

I agree it is not JUST speed. But, I don't think I've ever seen someone I thought was athletic that was slow.

 

[BanjoCharley]

I am sorry but you are not correct. Here is the formula for the amount of time in the air:

hang time equals t = √(2h/g)

T is the time, h is the height, and g is the gravitational constant. There is no horizontal component. I will see your thinking of a long jumper and raise you my degrees in Physics and Math. I won't comment on this again but try Googling "hang time physics formula."

 

[sybarite]

The formula applies to a vertical jump, i.e., jumping in place.

Can you get the same amount of vertical force in a standing jump as in a running jump that includes momentum?

 

[SoonerNorm]

I think what Banjo is saying is, horizontal distance is not included because you are only concerned with the time it takes to reach the peak of the jump. When you double that time, you then have the total time spent in the air as the drop takes the exact same time as the rise of the jump. Distance would not be a factor.

 

[sybarite]

I think what Banjo is saying is, horizontal distance is not included because you are only concerned with the time it takes to reach the peak of the jump. When you double that time, you then have the total time spent in the air as the drop takes the exact same time as the rise of the jump. Distance would not be a factor.

If only one formula applies, that is correct. Does only one formula apply?

 

[35TangoTango]

So does a football that is punted 40 yards in the air and 60 yards down field stay in the air the same length of time as a football punted 40 yards in the air and 5 yards down field?

 

[SoonerNorm]

So does a football that is punted 40 yards in the air and 60 yards down field stay in the air the same length of time as a football punted 40 yards in the air and 5 yards down field?

This is strictly my opinion and I am in no way as qualified to answer this as Banjo.

No. The ball that is kicked the shortest distance will have the lowest hang time (assuming they are kicked to the same height). Hang time is the total time an object or person is in the air. That could be 2.5 seconds if the ball only travels 5 yards or it might be 5 seconds if the ball traveled 60 yards down-field. So, when someone talks about a player's hang time, you are simply talking about the total time the player is in the air from the time of take off until he re-touches the floor and the distance he covers is irrelevant. It's only about time. Some players who jump really well will have a greater hang time than someone like me who doesn't jump well. But, the distance we both jump is not the issue, the issue is how long each of us stays in the air.

Banjo, where are you?

 

[sybarite]

This actually represents an opportunity to learn something, and I'm not sure that one formula is sufficient. We can be certain that F almost never equals MA. Other factors intercede. Physics is rarely simple enough for one formula to explain a phenomenon.

Yet, it may in this case. But, I have some questions that I would like to see explained. If the only thing that applies is the immediate force up and down in a vertical jump, why don't players just stand and dunk very often? Why do the players who are running appear to attain greater heights? Why do high jumpers simply not jump up rather than get a running jump? Why do long jumpers simply not do a standing broad jump?

Is it possible that a body in motion can generate more vertical force than one at rest? For this to be one simple formula, there are some questions that would appear to be applicable. The answers would be interesting.

 

[rrrsooner]

I used to work on Trajectory applications for Space Shuttle so I have some idea of how this works . In the most basic view, t = √(2h/g) is always the correct answer but there is some discrepancy when adding a horizontal component. I'll explain in a minute. The best long jumper is the one who is very fast (thus distance through the air before gravity pulls him to earth) and one who can get very high (vertical height thus taking gravity longer to return him to earth). So, if one jumps exactly straight up, the longest hang time is the person who can jump the highest. However (here's the rub), if the force used to jump upwards is modified to an angle (horizontally if you will), the hang time will really depend on how long it takes to reach the highest point (and thus gravity will return him (it in the case of a football being kicked) to earth. So a football kicked downfield 40 yards that reaches its highest point 30 yards downfield (and thus took longer to reach its highest point) will spend more time in the air than one which is kicked 5 yards downfield but has the same highest point as the former (confused yet ).

All that being said, if one thinks of hang time as the person with highest vertical jump or footbal kicked the highest, he's going to be right almost all the time.