Crean vs. Kruger

[Sawyer]

Capel only gets 50% credit for Blake.

Willie Warren, Tommy Mason Griffin and Tiny Gallon may have been 'big-time' recruits but they weren't big-time players or teammates.

That leaves three guys are good team players.

TMG and Gallon didn't exactly have a ton of elite offers, either. They were talented, but they were also flawed, and a lot of coaches recognized that.

I wouldn't call Pledger or Fitzgerald big time recruits.

 

[seniorsooner]

I don't know that he takes 100% of the blame for this, but by the end of Capel's tenure we were reduced to recruiting guys that ORU might (Washington, Thompson) or might not (Ahmed) be interested in. Washington has turned out to be a decent enough "end of the bench" Big XII player, but Thompson and Ahmed had absolutely no business sniffing a Big XII roster.

 

[WaymanFan]

I don't know that he takes 100% of the blame for this, but by the end of Capel's tenure we were reduced to recruiting guys that ORU might (Washington, Thompson) or might not (Ahmed) be interested in. Washington has turned out to be a decent enough "end of the bench" Big XII player, but Thompson and Ahmed had absolutely no business sniffing a Big XII roster.

I think some of that blame falls on Orlando T. Once that happened, Coach Capel was relegated to just filling out a roster. He did bring in two pretty big recruits in that early signing period with Cameron and T.J. To say that Capel was a "horrid" recruiter is obviously ridiculous being that he signed three McDonald's All-Americans in his five years...one more than Billy Tubbs and as many as Kelvin Sampson.

What Coach Capel lacked that Lon Kruger has proven he doesn't lack is recruiting INSTINCTS. Granted, Kruger is going to make mistakes (like with Arent so far), but he'll definitely find some gems along the way...always has in the past.

I would also agree that the Indiana comparisons aren't apples-apples since they are probably locked in as the 6th best college basketball program over the past 50-75 years. I'm just not going to be looking for any patterns with what Tom Crean has done.

 

[thebigabd]

I certainly wouldnt call Fitz or Pledge "big time" recruits, and especially not Cameron Clark. I wouldnt even call Cameron Clark an "average" big 12 player.

 

[seniorsooner]

To say Clark isn't even an average big 12 player is stupid.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Capel was a horrid recruiter? Talk about mentally challenged.

Blake Griffin
Willie Warren
Tommy Mason Griffin
Tiny Gallon
Stephen Pledger
Andrew Fitzgerald
Cameron Clark

all big time recruits

not to mention that Cade Davis turned out to be a good players, on top of all the juco all-americans that Capel got that at the time some of you thought were great. I personally dont care if a guy is a juco all-american. It just means they are the best of the guys that couldnt make it to D-1 in the 1st place.

Clown post.

Warren, Gallon and TMG were all head cases that hurt the program more by coming here than they did if they had gone somewhere else. Heck, Gallon landed us on probation because Capel had to pay to get him here.

Griffin doesn't even come to OU if Taylor isn't here. So, I'm not going to credit Capel for that one.

That leaves Pledger, Fitz and Clark. All 3 of which have major flaws.

However, that wasn't really the point of my post. How about Chris Early, Tony Neysmith, Ray Willis, Kyle Cannon, Orlando Allen and the number of other players he recruited who were here 1 or 2 years and never contributed? Is he still a great recruiter after all those misses?

If he's such a great recruiter, why did he spend so much time on Lucas, Barnes, Terrence Jones and all the other high profile recruits with ZERO backup plan?

If he's such a great recruiter, why wasn't he able to convince Scotty Reynolds and Damion James to stay after he was hired?

I'm waiting for your answers to these questions.

 

[DenverSooner]

Capel was good at landing some big names and pretty bad at finding the 3 star guys that could really help a program or he was bad at teaching kids. Perhaps it was a little bit of both.

 

[Ham]

I totally agree. You build perennial success with 3 star players that hang for all 4 seasons
and improve bit by bit. It was one thing Kelvin was pretty damn good at.

You get to the next level every once in a blue moon, but to have teams competing
in the Big XII tourney that aren't embarassing...give me a couple of 3 star guys with a good
attitude over a 5 star that is anything less than an undeniable talent.

Most guys are about the same level of sheer talent.
There is an upper Calipari-like crust, and there is surely a lower crust.
And what distinguishes those guys in the middle are physical attributes and attitude.
It's easier for most coaches to recruit attributes than attitude. It takes a lot more investment to find the guys like Crocker and Davis, who we'd kill to have had on this years squad. If only for attitude.

 

[stoopified]

Uhhhh. Mike Davis and his Indiana team kicked our butts in the final 4. As Big said, a down Indiana is better than an elite OU.

And SS of course Sampson crushed Indiana just like he left OU in a mess for Capel.

Capel haters allos don't want acknowledge that Capel Capel had to deal with the fallout of KS Phonegate 1 just like Crean had to deal with Phomegate 2.The fact that Capel had a far superior record after 5 years apparently means nothing.The haters still say Crean can coach and Capel can't.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Capel haters allos don't want acknowledge that Capel Capel had to deal with the fallout of KS Phonegate 1 just like Crean had to deal with Phomegate 2.The fact that Capel had a far superior record after 5 years apparently means nothing.The haters still say Crean can coach and Capel can't.

Capel couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag.

The team he inherited after "phonegate 1" was far superior to what he left Kruger.

Also, Sampson had 2 of the better recruits in the nation in the bag for Capel yet he couldn't close the deal. I guess that's Sampson's fault, too, though right? :facepalm

 

[Ham]

Capel had to endure a year of "phone-gate" and then Blake Griffin showed up.
I only hope Lon's second year is half as fortuitous.

I am not a Capel hater. I always liked him and think he'd be a good coach at most places.
He was fine here until he struck out.

Strike one - putting all of the eggs in the Houston Duo basket.
Strike two - some of those replacement 'eggs' were in desperation.
That led to two crap seasons in a row. And all of that would have been relatively fine, otherwise...I think he'd still be coaching here (even if firmly on the Hot Seat) if not for...
Strike three - NCAA trouble.

We'll see how in demand Capel is with the job openings this off season.
There's a couple of decent ones already. I'm not talking Illinois-caliber, but...just say, Air Force.

 

[WaymanFan]

Also, Sampson had 2 of the better recruits in the nation in the bag for Capel yet he couldn't close the deal. I guess that's Sampson's fault, too, though right? :facepalm

No, that's Joe Castiglione's fault for not hiring a seasoned head coach to replace Kelvin. We've been down that road a million times...and nearly six years later, it's STILL Joe Castiglione's fault. On top of that, Joe C didn't even require these guys to spend a certain amount of time with Coach Capel before releasing them from the LOI. Without that condition, those two guys were not going to play for a mid-major head coach they never heard of no matter who it was...can't believe there are still posters who need that explained to them.

 

[garyeb2]

No, that's Joe Castiglione's fault for not hiring a seasoned head coach to replace Kelvin. We've been down that road a million times...and nearly six years later, it's STILL Joe Castiglione's fault. On top of that, Joe C didn't even require these guys to spend a certain amount of time with Coach Capel before releasing them from the LOI. Without that condition, those two guys were not going to play for a mid-major head coach they never heard of no matter who it was...can't believe there are still posters who need that explained to them.

That's right. Except for Scottie Reynolds. He was from Virginia and Capel was no stranger to him.

 

[WTSooner]

No, that's Joe Castiglione's fault for not hiring a seasoned head coach to replace Kelvin. We've been down that road a million times...and nearly six years later, it's STILL Joe Castiglione's fault.

That is nonsense. Jeff Capel was one of the best young coaching names in the game at the time. I've listed out before all the reasons it was a good hire on paper. If Capel hadn't ended up at OU, he'd have ended up somewhere similar within a year or so. How was anybody to know that Capel wouldn't be able to adjust on the fly. That he'd try to recruit the best of the best, and when that failed, he'd have no backup plan. I'm sure had that come up in the interviewing process, Joe C. would have moved on.

 

[garyeb2]

That is nonsense. Jeff Capel was one of the best young coaching names in the game at the time. I've listed out before all the reasons it was a good hire on paper. If Capel hadn't ended up at OU, he'd have ended up somewhere similar within a year or so. How was anybody to know that Capel wouldn't be able to adjust on the fly. That he'd try to recruit the best of the best, and when that failed, he'd have no backup plan. I'm sure had that come up in the interviewing process, Joe C. would have moved on.

Nonsense is alittle strong isn't it? I mean if Joe C. gets credit for hiring a young Stoops that worked out. Why wouldn't he get the blame for hiring a young Capel that didn't? I thought Capel was a good hire at the time. I was wrong. So was Joe C.

 

[WTSooner]

Nonsense is alittle strong isn't it? I mean if Joe C. gets credit for hiring a young Stoops that worked out. Why wouldn't he get the blame for hiring a young Capel that didn't? I thought Capel was a good hire at the time. I was wrong. So was Joe C.

Because you can't always look at the end result as your reason for something going good or bad. Yes, I know, at the end of the day the W's and L's are all that mattered. Joe C. cannot predict the future though. He did his homework, and he, along with a lot of other people that are educated in such matters, thought Jeff Capel would do well at OU. Jeff Capel had the tools and ability to be a good coach for us. The fact that he wasn't, I don't get how you can put that on Joe C. Joe didn't recruit for Capel. Joe didn't do anything to make Jeff's life as OU's HC more difficult. Capel simply didn't do the things it takes to run a successful program at OU, despite having the ability to do just that.

 

[allday92]

Common denominator between Indiana and Oklahoma: both got screwed by Kelvin Sampson.

 

[Big Old Booger]

No, that's Joe Castiglione's fault for not hiring a seasoned head coach to replace Kelvin. We've been down that road a million times...and nearly six years later, it's STILL Joe Castiglione's fault. On top of that, Joe C didn't even require these guys to spend a certain amount of time with Coach Capel before releasing them from the LOI. Without that condition, those two guys were not going to play for a mid-major head coach they never heard of no matter who it was...can't believe there are still posters who need that explained to them.

You make good points, however, Capel lost them when he decided to place a phone call instead of going to visit with them in person. That was part of Capels problem, he had such a high view of himself he thought kids would die to play for an ex-Duke star so much that they would fall over themselves if he called them. He was wrong.

 

[WaymanFan]

You make good points, however, Capel lost them when he decided to place a phone call instead of going to visit with them in person. That was part of Capels problem, he had such a high view of himself he thought kids would die to play for an ex-Duke star so much that they would fall over themselves if he called them. He was wrong.

If you are saying that Jeff Capel had an opportunity to meet with these guys in person and chose not to, then I'll admit to being completely wrong and put the blame directly on him...but are you sure it really went down that way? I have my doubts...it seems he went to bat with "Strike-3".

 

[WaymanFan]

That is nonsense. Jeff Capel was one of the best young coaching names in the game at the time. I've listed out before all the reasons it was a good hire on paper. If Capel hadn't ended up at OU, he'd have ended up somewhere similar within a year or so. How was anybody to know that Capel wouldn't be able to adjust on the fly. That he'd try to recruit the best of the best, and when that failed, he'd have no backup plan. I'm sure had that come up in the interviewing process, Joe C. would have moved on.

Sorry...can't see McDonald's All-Americans playing for a mid-major coach. Those two committed to play for Kelvin Sampson, not OU (regardless of the fine print in the LOI). If Joe C landed a big name who was well-established, that would have been a different story.

Coach Capel not having a backup plan when he failed to land the top prize was a frustration we all shared; not just the OU fans who couldn't wait for him to be fired.