Critique of Scott Drew

[Cheno]

It's not even close to the same as the scenarios I specifically pointed out. Do you really think that OU getting the players they have gotten the past 3 years, even coming off of probation, is anywhere close to schools like UMass and Rhode Island all of a sudden landing flat out NBA studs out of the clear blue sky??

Rhode Island got one stud in Lamar Odom because he got kicked out or whatever at UNLV and he knew the coach at Rhode Island. It was one isolated case. UMass got one stud in Marcus Camby because a) he was from the area and b) John Calipari is a great recruiter and was an up and comer.
Again, a single isolated incident. Is it really that hard to fathom a highly rated kid staying home to play?

 

[seniorsooner]

Rhode Island got one stud in Lamar Odom because he got kicked out or whatever at UNLV and he knew the coach at Rhode Island. It was one isolated case. UMass got one stud in Marcus Camby because a) he was from the area and b) John Calipari is a great recruiter and was an up and comer.
Again, a single isolated incident. Is it really that hard to fathom a highly rated kid staying home to play?

So you're really defending the recruiting practices of Calipari-era UMass and Harrick-era Rhode Island now? Really???

 

[Cheno]

So you're really defending the recruiting practices of Calipari-era UMass and Harrick-era Rhode Island now? Really???

No, I'm saying just because a school lands on big name recruit doesn't mean they are cheating. Again, who would have thought OU could land 4 MCDAA in 3 years? If anyone thought that was possible it was me. I've been trying to convince some OU fans for 5 years it was possible. They said it was impossible. Does that mean Capel cheated? I bet some other schools question that yet we all know it's absolutely not true and that Capel is just a fantastic recruiter. I think Drew is the same way. It's silly to just say he's a cheater (not saying you are saying that but others have).

 

[gspence]

he is cheating. I don't know what he is doing, but he is cheating. I've been told this by people who would know. Those Rick Barnes comment's say something IMO.

But the biggest thing is what I was told by someone who talked with FMBCQS who said the only one in the Big 12 that was cheating more than me was Scott Drew.

 

[BigTime]

Thanks for the post. It is an interesting perspective, and one that differs from folks that I talk to that are also well ingrained in the texas auu circuit.

I am not the type that likes to call every smaller/nontraditional school that gets a good recruit a cheater. I think it is a pretty aggie thing to do. I also think that to some degree nearly every program out there cheats in some form or fashion. That said, Baylor's name has come up so many times in discussions that I have had with folks that following recruiting closely in Texas.

Maybe it is not Drew specifically. Maybe it is the donors down there providing aau coaches and players with illegal benefits. I am really inclined to believe that SOMETHING is going on. There is just too much smoke.

But as others have mentioned, it is often very difficult to catch and stop this from going on in college basketball. Very difficult. It is actually much easier to catch little things like making too many phone calls than it is to catch donors giving aau coaches extra benefits. The latter is often handled with great discretion because all parties involved having a lot to lose if something goes wrong.

No matter what, there is no doubt in my mind that Tang and Drew are good recruiters. They are good at what they do.

 

[BigTime]

But to me it sure seemed odd that the article came out the day after Baylor beat Texas. Like I said in the original post. Barnes has a lot to gain to see Baylor stay down. Lose to Baylor consistently at UT and lose your job.

I don't think Barnes has to worry about losing his job even if he started losing a game to Baylor every couple years.

 

[seniorsooner]

Yeah, I'm sure Rick Barnes lies awake every night thinking about how he's going to deal with the super program building on the horizon in Waco.

 

[BigTime]

I think you can objectively look at their roster and the pipeline they have for the future (Perry Jones top 20 PF next year) and see why they will be playing in postseason tournaments most of the time.

The Big 12 is brutal, but right now you have 8 schools that will likely go to the NCAA or NIT every year: Kansas, OU, Texas, Missouri, K St, OSU, A&M and Baylor. Sadler is a hell of a good coach but I don't see them recruiting well enough to do it on a consistent basis.

Perry Jones won't be in the top 20 when the final rankings are out. Book it. *OVERRATED clap clap clap clap clap*


Man I would love to see what Sadler would do with Drew's talent.....

 

[BigTime]

Yeah, I'm sure Rick Barnes lies awake every night thinking about how he's going to deal with the super program building on the horizon in Waco.

No doubt. Now, if he started to lose to OU or A&M excessively then he really might need to worry. The whorn fans don't take to that too kindly.

 

[BigTime]

. Baylor's talent has been vastly over-rated. Jerrells, Dugat and Rogers were nice offensive players. But only Jerrells could play any defense. Drew sold playing time to the best players he could get at the time. He didn't have the luxury until recently to actually find great fits for his scheme- offensively and defensively.

I always chuckle when I read these sorts of comments. I wonder what Kelvin Sampson would have done with Jerrells, Dugat, and Rogers? He did far more with way less talented players during his early years at Oklahoma. What would Bob Knight get out of those kids? Eddie Sutton? How about in today's Big 12 coaching line-up? Saddler, Self, Martin (great motivator), Capel, Barnes, Ford (look what he did without a center)? I don't feel sorry for what Drew has had to work with during the last two (maybe even three years). The jury is still out on his coaching ability....no doubt about that.

You can teach kids how to hustle and play defense. Baylor has often looked unorganized, selfish, and uninspired with Drew at the helm. That's coaching more than lack of ability in my book. They have talent and athletic ability I can't tell you how many of BU games that I watched that team get out to huge leads and then just piss away the games due to lack of effort.

Congrats on the run through the NIT. Too bad you guys couldn't turn on the jets sooner when it actually mattered.

 

[Smash Williams]

First of all, welcome to the board, DFWHoopster. It's nice to hear different perspectives.

But to me it sure seemed odd that the article came out the day after Baylor beat Texas. Like I said in the original post. Barnes has a lot to gain to see Baylor stay down. Lose to Baylor consistently at UT and lose your job.

I'll be honest: I've been a little suspicious of Drew for a while simply because it's amazing that he draws such highly touted recruits to Baylor, especially in the midst of that near-death penalty. However, I have never accused Drew of cheating because I have nothing besides his recruiting success to base my suspicions.

With all of that said, the Barnes comments really struck a chord, because Barnes isn't the type of coach who just badmouths other coaches publicly. I can't remember him ever doing something like that before, and I'm sure I would remember if we did, because OU fans never forget any bad deed done by a Texas coach. Also, if he were worried about keeping other programs down, I would think OU and A&M would be much bigger priorities for Barnes. Hoewever, he didn't throw Kelvin Sampson under the bus when he surely knew about Sampson's extra phone calls (they were recruiting some of the same guys). He also didn't trash any A&M coaches, and he has far more to lose if A&M builds a basketball tradition (biggest in-state rival, huge school with a ton of money). I'm just not buying the explanation that Barnes would say those things about Drew simply because he has something to lose by Baylor's rise.

 

[Smash Williams]

You can teach kids how to hustle and play defense. Baylor has often looked unorganized, selfish, and uninspired with Drew at the helm. That's coaching more than lack of ability in my book. They have talent and athletic ability I can't tell you how many of BU games that I watched that team get out to huge leads and then just piss away the games due to lack of effort.

This.

Drew's players have plenty of athleticism and lateral quickness on the offensive end; those traits don't simply disappear on the defensive end. If there's one word to describe Drew's teams, it's "undisciplined." Poor shot selection and lack of defensive effort are a coach's responsibility to correct.

 

[cosmic_sooner]

all this just reeks slightly of BS just like Baylor/Drew slightly reek.

1. i would venture to say that the NCAA is nowhere near the ass of Baylor. give me a break. yeah, they were in deep ****e at one time, but the NCAA is a failed bumbling institution. when they do go up someone's ass, it's a lot better looking of an ass than Baylor.

it's hubris to think the NCAA is "checking up" on Baylor.

2. i enjoy the commentary and the well-written argument. but that's exactly what it is: an argument...for Baylor's innocence and sparkly-clean program.

3. it's pretty slimey and quite suspect to crawl onto a public message board and state that you have AAU connections, then pimp them. and Vito Corleone was only in the Olive Oil import business.

4. your #5 point, "Scott Drew is a good man". you're obviously a ringer. hey, im sure Drew is a go-getter and has just the cutest contagious personality that makes me want to shoot 2000 jumpers by lunchtime. but the fact is there's a lot of smoke.

 

[coolm]

DFW - I wouldn't be so quick to hop on the "drew outcoached _________" train.

It pretty much took the basketball IQ of a 5yo to see he should just stick them in a 2-3 defensively...to wit if you do asearch of posts here you will find I and a few others said exactly the same before he made the move.

I will give him kudos for having the temerity to shake things up that late, but it wasn't like he had much to lose at that point.

His teams have drastically underperformed and that is his responsibility. point blank. IF, however, he is doing all the other stuff 100% right (academics, recruiting etc...) then IMO he deserves to stay for a few more years and see it through because it will help their program in the long run and he might learn.

But I wouldn't go saying he's outcoaching anyone in this league...and DEFINITELY not Sadler. Not even close.

 

[Cheno]

DFW - I wouldn't be so quick to hop on the "drew outcoached _________" train.
It pretty much took the basketball IQ of a 5yo to see he should just stick them in a 2-3 defensively...to wit if you do asearch of posts here you will find I and a few others said exactly the same before he made the move.
I will give him kudos for having the temerity to shake things up that late, but it wasn't like he had much to lose at that point.
His teams have drastically underperformed and that is his responsibility. point blank. IF, however, he is doing all the other stuff 100% right (academics, recruiting etc...) then IMO he deserves to stay for a few more years and see it through because it will help their program in the long run and he might learn.
But I wouldn't go saying he's outcoaching anyone in this league...and DEFINITELY not Sadler. Not even close.

Great post. Well said. We had this discussion oh a month or so ago about whether Drew should still have a job at Baylor with how he's underperformed. Many said he should be gone, I feel he absolutely he should stay. From where the program was when he got there he's done a fabulous job. He's cleaned up the mess and he's a fantastic recruiter. He's had them in the NIT and then now the NCAA. Why in the WORLD would a school like Baylor give that up. Drew is fantastic for them.

 

[SoonerNorm]

If and when Drew does move on, it will be much easier for them to find a good coach to come in to replace him. It's a much more attractive job now than it was when he took over.

 

[Cheno]

If and when Drew does move on, it will be much easier for them to find a good coach to come in to replace him. It's a much more attractive job now than it was when he took over.

Totally agree. I just don't see Baylor at this point be able to get a better coach than Scott Drew. He's a fantastic recruiter. Hopefully his bench coaching blossoms as he's still a young coach.

 

[Flintheart Glomgold]

It's not even close to the same as the scenarios I specifically pointed out. Do you really think that OU getting the players they have gotten the past 3 years, even coming off of probation, is anywhere close to schools like UMass and Rhode Island all of a sudden landing flat out NBA studs out of the clear blue sky??

how does ou get a kid out of tulsa who's all world one year after a 9-18 season? how do they beat out georgetown for the kid when they're coming off an appearance in the national championship game?

it's not always dirty. sometimes it just works.

 

[seniorsooner]

how does ou get a kid out of tulsa who's all world one year after a 9-18 season? how do they beat out georgetown for the kid when they're coming off an appearance in the national championship game?

it's not always dirty. sometimes it just works.

I think you answered your own question. Oklahoma is a little different animal than Texas or other larger states. Some guys are going to be either a Cowboy or a Sooner, regardless of the circumstances. I don't see a lot of Texas kids growing up dreaming of playing for Baylor.

 

[tomkar98]

I think you answered your own question. Oklahoma is a little different animal than Texas or other larger states. Some guys are going to be either a Cowboy or a Sooner, regardless of the circumstances. I don't see a lot of Texas kids growing up dreaming of playing for Baylor.

This. :clap