Critique of Scott Drew

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Hello Sooner Fans. I have been a long time visitor to this site and decided to register a login after reading the comments on Scott Drew and the commitment of Nolan Dennis.

I went to high school on the East Coast and grew up a huge ACC fan but have been in the Dallas area since the early 90s and have switched my allegiance to big 12 basketball.

I am a hoops junkie and have formed many friendships on the AAU circuit, with referees and high school coaches. I think the big 12 has the best collection of coaches in the country if you look at the total package of recruiting and game-planning.

Capel is up there with Self and Anderson in my book as the top coaches in the league. I do want to set the record straight on Scott Drew because I have a friendship with one of the coaches on the Baylor staff.

Some comments:

1. Drew is aggressive as hell in his recruiting tactics. He forms relationships with parents, coaches, mentors, grandparents and relatives of the players that he is targeting starting in the 8th grade.

2. The NCAA is so far up Baylor's butt after the Bliss scandal... Scott Drew runs everything by his compliance office. And I mean everything. He takes risks like hiring John Wall's AAU coach. That may or may not pay off. But he did it right- offering a job without conditions of getting the player. No other school does that. They get the LOI and then hire the coach. Drew will do anything within legal limits to gain an advantage. But he doesn't cheat. To say that Baylor is paying players is just a baseless nonsense claim.

3. The jury is out on whether Drew will be a great X's and O's guy. He showed me a lot in March this year. One of the hardest things to do in sports is to take a team that has underachieved all year and make adjustments and right the ship.

My opinion is that Drew outcoached Sadler, Self, Barnes, John Thompson III, Seth Greenberg, Jeff Lebo and Steve Fisher in putting together an impressive run at the end of the season. He used a 2-3 zone instead of playing man-to-man. They executed out of bounds plays to Rogers for dunks and Dunn for open 3's multiple times. Baylor had some ridiculous 82% FG percentage on inbounds plays in the post-season. That is good coaching.

4. Baylor's talent has been vastly over-rated. Jerrells, Dugat and Rogers were nice offensive players. But only Jerrells could play any defense. Drew sold playing time to the best players he could get at the time. He didn't have the luxury until recently to actually find great fits for his scheme- offensively and defensively.

OU and UT have been able to recruit terrific defensive players that also have good offensive skills. Occasionally, you all find a Blake Griffin or Willie Warren that can take over a game. Baylor has been taking what they can get up until last year. But their coaches will admit that they have had a lot of defensive deficiencies (small guards, clumsy bigs). Until they landed Udoh, they had no one to defend the rim with any skill. Diene was serviceable but had terrible knees.

5. Last point I promise. Scott Drew is a good man. AAU coaches like him. High school coaches like him. Players like him. He has good men on his staff and a great set of "yes sir, no sir" kids on his team.

Barnes and Bobby Knight have been critical of him in public because they are in the good ol boys club and Drew is not. Drew has used some aggressive tactics going head to head for recruits that some would label negative recruiting. Drew and the Baylor coaches wear obnoxious oversized BAYLOR shirts. Drew doesn't seem to know his place. How dare he try to recruit a player that Texas, Kansas or OU is after.

Naturally, the traditional powers want to see Baylor stay down where they belong. But Drew is kind of like a young Calipari without the sleaze factor. One article planted by Barnes and UT labeled Drew a phony. That's BS in my book. He's a Bible Thumper, but that is who he is. He lives his faith. He is honest with his players and staff. They love the guy. He's one of those freaks that is positive every single day and that starts to be contagious to people around him.

It pisses a lot of people off. But that is not his fault. He is who he is. He thinks he is going to build a powerhouse at Baylor. And he just might.

OU has had his number. But to be fair, only the last two years really count. He was severely handicapped until 2 years ago. And 3 of those 4 games were close.

I admit to being a fan of Baylor. I admire what Drew has done there. It is one of the most remarkable turnarounds in college basketball history. I grew up watching Coach K revive basketball at Duke and it reminds me some of Duke's early years. I am not saying Baylor will ever be Duke... I also root for OU, Missouri and A&M. I like the way each of those programs are headed. Drew and the coaches have good relationships with those staffs to my knowledge.

Dennis' commitment wasn't out of the blue. Baylor has been on him hard since he was in the 8th grade. Baylor has been coaching all of their commitments to keep Baylor's name out of the media even if they are considered the leader. They did that with Udoh, Acy, AJ Walton and Nolan Dennis.

I am hearing that they are very much in the running for John Wall. Don't be surprised if he commits to Baylor.

The Big 12 will be the toughest league next year bar none. And Baylor's resurgence is a good story for the league. I doubt they will be knocking OU or Texas out of the driver's seat any time soon. But don't underestimate them. They are ready to play with the big boys and Drew can coach. I think that label on him will disappear in the years to come.

Since this is a public forum, I felt compelled to set a few things straight and defend a man that some on here are dragging through the mud.
 
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No offense, but some of this is unbelievably over the top. I'm not discounting what you're saying, because I think you make some valid points, but you're obviously not coming from an objective point of view.
 
DFW thanks for sharing. I understand where you feel the need to defend. You sound like a good person. Just realize this is the internet and you are going to have people who have no idea what they are talking about screaming "cheaters" everytime a program like Baylor gets a kid. To my knowledge Drew has never been in trouble for breaking rules and certainly nothing to warrant the cheater tag. It's irresponsible for anyone to suggest otherwise without proof.
I've been critical of Drew for his X's and O's. He's certainly a fantastic recruiter and the turnaround he's done at Baylor is anything short of miraculous. Nice post.
 
No offense, but some of this is unbelievably over the top. I'm not discounting what you're saying, because I think you make some valid points, but you're obviously not coming from an objective point of view.

But the people screaming "cheaters" just because he's a good recruiter are coming from an objective point of view? Come 'on. Drew has done nothing to warrant the tag. Until he does he shouldn't be labeled that. Bottom line.
 
I'm not saying they are either. I'm just saying some of the statements he makes basically wreak of fanboyism. "One of the most remarkable turnarounds in college basketball history." Really? Why? Because you went to the tournament one year and got dusted in the first round? Then the next year you were one of the most disappointing teams in the NATION for 95% of the year?
 
Thanks for the post. I hope you continue posting here in the future, good fans from other schools make this board better imo.

Personally, I don't think Drew is cheating. Like you said, the NCAA is so far up the ass of that athletic department, he'd have to be a moron to try anything. But negative recruiting in the form of "you can go there and ride the bench for a few years, or come to baylor and be a star..." that seems like a possibility, based solely on the fact their tradition immediately puts them at a disadvantage. And actually, I have no problem with that.

But this:

Dennis' commitment wasn't out of the blue. Baylor has been on him hard since he was in the 8th grade. Baylor has been coaching all of their commitments to keep Baylor's name out of the media even if they are considered the leader. They did that with Udoh, Acy, AJ Walton and Nolan Dennis.

I am hearing that they are very much in the running for John Wall. Don't be surprised if he commits to Baylor.

Why would Baylor not want the publicity of a high major recruit considering them??? That makes no sense to me.

Anyway, I'm sure Drew is a good guy, but I've seen him out-coached many times, and not out-talented, if that makes any sense. He did turn it on late this year, so I guess we'll see next season.
 
Dave Bliss had them borderline shutting down the program. Now Baylor is making a real push to be a perenial NCAA team. I don't know if it's the greatest turnaround in history but it certainly belongs in the discussion.
 
I like this statement right here:

Drew will do anything within legal limits to gain an advantage.

That seems to insinuate that Drew is just "outworking" people, right? You know I can think of a coach that used to roam these parts that thought he was just "outworking" people too. That didn't turn out too well for him in the end. When you start pushing the boundaries and convince yourself that you're just working harder than everyone else by doing so, you can get yourself in some trouble.

Let me just say that I'm not saying that Drew IS cheating nor do I have any "proof" of him doing so. However, we have seen this type of thing in college basketball before. All of a sudden UMass had Marcus Camby. All of a sudden Rhode Island had Lamar Odom. And so on and so forth. He just needs to be careful, because as you have alluded to the University of Baylor cannot afford any sort of inpropriety to be linked to their b-ball program, or they are going to have some seriously dark days ahead.
 
Why would Baylor not want the publicity of a high major recruit considering them??? That makes no sense to me.

Spiff, Drew might like to stay low profile under the radar so other coaches don't negative recruit him. If I'm a top coach and a great program and a kid tells me he's considering strongly going to Baylor I'd be like "why in the hell would you go to Waco to play for a weak program that never gets into the big dance?". To me its probably smarter for Drew to stay under the radar.
Heck, he got WW to commit without his momma even knowing so that tells me DFW comment about Drew probably has some legs.
 
Dave Bliss had them borderline shutting down the program. Now Baylor is making a real push to be a perenial NCAA team. I don't know if it's the greatest turnaround in history but it certainly belongs in the discussion.

Please. Let's ease up on the hyperbole a bit. I swear sometimes in sports we have a memory that goes back about 5 years max.

And I don't quite make the connection between having one tournament season and being close to being a "perennial NCAA team".
 
Let me just say that I'm not saying that Drew IS cheating nor do I have any "proof" of him doing so. However, we have seen this type of thing in college basketball before. All of a sudden UMass had Marcus Camby. All of a sudden Rhode Island had Lamar Odom. And so on and so forth.

But that's like saying all of a sudden OU is on probation and gets a new coach and then signs 4 MCDAA in a 3 year period that Capel must be cheating. It just isn't true. If others were making that claim we'd all be pissed. And rightfully so. Scott Drew is a really, really good recruiter. Couldn't that be enough? And lets be honest, he's getting some kids who were highly rated and had some high accolades but as we've seen them play they really weren't as good as their rankings. And if you look back they really weren't kids that were recruited real hard by a lot of the heavyweights. Tweety Carter and Lacedius Dunn are not great players in my mind, certainly not deserving of the MCDAA hype they received. It's not like he was beating out Duke and UNC for these kids.
 
Great first post. Without knowing him, I probably wouldn't discount what you said about him personally. The turnaround has been very good, don't think its even close to the best ever, but very good. Now if he wins a ship...

However, I think #3 and #4 are a stretch.

The jury is out on whether Drew will be a great X's and O's guy. He showed me a lot in March this year. One of the hardest things to do in sports is to take a team that has underachieved all year and make adjustments and right the ship.

I guess. But why did it take so long to right the ship? They stunk prior to March. Changing defenses isn't new to sports or college basketball. Shouldn't it be the norm? I give him credit for the change, but still they underachieved. Not to mention, NIT runs are nice, but they are only....NIT runs. :confused:

Baylor's talent has been vastly over-rated. Jerrells, Dugat and Rogers were nice offensive players. But only Jerrells could play any defense. Drew sold playing time to the best players he could get at the time. He didn't have the luxury until recently to actually find great fits for his scheme- offensively and defensively.

I disagree. Not only did those guys mentioned have above average offensive skills, but they had tons of experience. Not to mention Dunn and Carter, or the couple of stiffs that could be thrown in. Even talented teams don't typically make long postseason runs until they get the experience, particularly at PG. Look around the Big 12 last season, and you will notice why BU had bigger expectations. They should have been a lot better. Not many other teams had an NBA caliber player at PG. Personally, I think it will be a little rough for Baylor this season, they still have some nice parts, but Jerrells bailed them out a lot. Not sure they have the go to guy that can get into the paint or score when needed.
 
Thanks for the post. I hope you continue posting here in the future, good fans from other schools make this board better imo.

Personally, I don't think Drew is cheating. Like you said, the NCAA is so far up the ass of that athletic department, he'd have to be a moron to try anything. But negative recruiting in the form of "you can go there and ride the bench for a few years, or come to baylor and be a star..." that seems like a possibility, based solely on the fact their tradition immediately puts them at a disadvantage. And actually, I have no problem with that.

But this:



Why would Baylor not want the publicity of a high major recruit considering them??? That makes no sense to me.

Anyway, I'm sure Drew is a good guy, but I've seen him out-coached many times, and not out-talented, if that makes any sense. He did turn it on late this year, so I guess we'll see next season.

Thanks for the comments and the class of the comments so far. It is a strange strategy. I think it stems from a couple of left at the altar situations in recruiting where they lost the guy at the end that they were leading on. Darrell Arthur is the most prominent. My buddy on staff there tells me they get their share of "Baylor's sucked and will always suck comments by other coaches and handlers."

They have felt it a more successful strategy to stay under the radar- encouraging players to name other leaders but to only mention Baylor as one they are considering.

A&M up until recently has had some of the same issues. Drew does need to improve on his gameplanning- no question. I think they are in the process of addressing that. I am probably not at liberty to say, but it might be a guy who is stilll young and looking to get back into coaching after a couple of mediocre stints in the NBA. But he knows the game well and would be a valuable addition to Drew.
 
Spiff, Drew might like to stay low profile under the radar so other coaches don't negative recruit him. If I'm a top coach and a great program and a kid tells me he's considering strongly going to Baylor I'd be like "why in the hell would you go to Waco to play for a weak program that never gets into the big dance?". To me its probably smarter for Drew to stay under the radar.
Heck, he got WW to commit without his momma even knowing so that tells me DFW comment about Drew probably has some legs.


Well, damn. Now I feel like an idiot.

So now, I have no problems with his post.

Other than that the deifying of Scott Drew did get a little old. ;)
 
Spiff, Drew might like to stay low profile under the radar so other coaches don't negative recruit him.

March 15, 2009, 12:17 am
Barnes Has Stern Words for Baylor
By Thayer Evans

“There’s a line that he knows that he can’t cross with me,” Barnes said of Drew. “He knows that. He definitely knows that.”

Drew has a reputation in college basketball circles for recruiting by talking negatively about other schools.

“If they’re saying things about us, I would think they wouldn’t,” Barnes said. “I’ve had that discussion that it’s going to be above board in terms of how things need to be done.”

Asked if he had anything else to say about Drew’s recruiting practices, Barnes said, “I wish I could.”

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/rick-barnes/?scp=3-b&sq=barnes&st=nyt
 
Please. Let's ease up on the hyperbole a bit. I swear sometimes in sports we have a memory that goes back about 5 years max.

And I don't quite make the connection between having one tournament season and being close to being a "perennial NCAA team".

I think you can objectively look at their roster and the pipeline they have for the future (Perry Jones top 20 PF next year) and see why they will be playing in postseason tournaments most of the time.

The Big 12 is brutal, but right now you have 8 schools that will likely go to the NCAA or NIT every year: Kansas, OU, Texas, Missouri, K St, OSU, A&M and Baylor. Sadler is a hell of a good coach but I don't see them recruiting well enough to do it on a consistent basis.
 
Please. Let's ease up on the hyperbole a bit. I swear sometimes in sports we have a memory that goes back about 5 years max.

What????? You need to read up on what happened at Baylor.

I mean a player killing another player, coaches paying players, coaches telling kids to lie about the dead player to the NCAA so the coach wouldn't get in trouble, the first time ever the NCAA told a team they could play no non-conference games, coaches turning their cheek to drug abuse amongst the team, Bliss getting a 10-year show cause and so on and so on.
It was quite possibly the biggest utter disaster in the history of college basketball. The NCAA called it as serious a case since SMU football 20 years prior.
Here's a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_basketball_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_basketball_scandal
 
But that's like saying all of a sudden OU is on probation and gets a new coach and then signs 4 MCDAA in a 3 year period that Capel must be cheating. It just isn't true. If others were making that claim we'd all be pissed. And rightfully so. Scott Drew is a really, really good recruiter. Couldn't that be enough? And lets be honest, he's getting some kids who were highly rated and had some high accolades but as we've seen them play they really weren't as good as their rankings. And if you look back they really weren't kids that were recruited real hard by a lot of the heavyweights. Tweety Carter and Lacedius Dunn are not great players in my mind, certainly not deserving of the MCDAA hype they received. It's not like he was beating out Duke and UNC for these kids.

It's not even close to the same as the scenarios I specifically pointed out. Do you really think that OU getting the players they have gotten the past 3 years, even coming off of probation, is anywhere close to schools like UMass and Rhode Island all of a sudden landing flat out NBA studs out of the clear blue sky??

And as far as Baylor's talent being "overrated", that's a very convenient excuse to use. Baylor was coming off a tournament season with 95% of their roster returning, and for 4 months they fell flat on their face. So all of a sudden those players who took them to the tournament the year before are now overrated. You can't blame it all on the players being overrated when you want to take credit for what those exact same players did just the year before.
 
What????? You need to read up on what happened at Baylor.

I mean a player killing another player, coaches paying players, coaches telling kids to lie about the dead player to the NCAA so the coach wouldn't get in trouble, the first time ever the NCAA told a team they could play no non-conference games, coaches turning their cheek to drug abuse amongst the team, Bliss getting a 10-year show cause and so on and so on.
It was quite possibly the biggest utter disaster in the history of college basketball. The NCAA called it as serious a case since SMU football 20 years prior.
Here's a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_basketball_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_basketball_scandal

There is no doubt Drew has done an excellent job with the program since that. However, my point is that we throw around statements like "this is one of the greatest ever..." WAAAAY too often in sports. Let's not be Bill Walton here. Let's have a little perspective. Baylor has made one NCAA tournament under Scott Drew and that was as a 9 or 10 seed (can't remember). And they got bounced in the first round. Let's not start pitching any movie scripts just yet.
 
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