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The article explained why it's an outdated system and why change is needed to keep up with the current times. You won't discuss that, you are just hung up on the 1st paragraph instead of arguing over what the article is discussing. You aren't having a discussion over my stated intent (which is the depth of the article) because you are a dip****.

Bc its dumb af. Its represents the majority of the states. It wasnt designed to keep people from voting blah blah blah. Dishonest argument.

Youre the one that cant read and understand SCOTUS opinions haha
 
Switzerland is the closest... they practice direct democracy. The have elected representation, a constitution, etc but the people are allowed to vote on issues directly like we can here at the state level.

They are such a great case study because many of my conservative/libertarian friends think that Democracy always means that people with nothing will vote for things that hurt people with more. But the results in a country that does this does not appear to show that.

Real Examples:

In February 2020, the "left parties" of Switzerland got enough signatures to get a national vote to bring in government housing, housing cooperatives, etc. 57% voted against it. The measure was defeated.

In 2016, a public vote went up to provide Universal Basic Income. Classic example where you would think the "mob" would vote in favor of getting free government money. It was massively rejected by nearly 80% of voters. They didn't vote for their free govt money.

In 2014, a public vote went up to raise the national minimum wage to 22 francs an hour.... Sounds like a socialist thing right? 76% of the voters REJECTED IT. A huge majority.

In 2015, there was a proposal to add additional taxes on any energy that was not renewable.... This sounds like a socialist thing, right? It was rejected by 92% of voters.

In 2014, the government was gridlocked on immigration reform. As middle eastern migrants were pouring into Europe... they let the citizens directly decide how to handle it. The voters in Switzerland voted to NOT ALLOW mass migration into Switzerland.

There are tons of great examples of real democracy at work in Switzerland... These are just a few examples....

We also have great examples of direct democracy at the state level. Many of the examples of real democracy in America at the state level show people REJECTING tax increases, government initiatives, etc. I have a meeting in a few minutes but I will list out some examples of that.

Its really hard to compare a country with 8.5 million pop to a country with 328 million pop
 
Bc its dumb af. Its represents the majority of the states. It wasnt designed to keep people from voting blah blah blah. Dishonest argument.

Youre the one that cant read and understand SCOTUS opinions haha

The SCOTUS had to rule on this because 18 states had no rule for if the elector voted against the popular vote of their state. and 17 of the 32 states that had rules had no punitive measure for if it happened. The system is flawed and doesn't truly allow every vote to count the same as others.
 
This doesnt disprove the utility of the EC. Just that the rights that were granted werent as expansive as now. There is not a single thing wrong with the electoral college

Ugh. Then why don't the states use the EC to elect a governor?
 
It was not unanimous amongst the founders.... and one of their key reasons for creating it was because they didn't trust the general public to vote. They didn't think citizens should decide it directly. They didn't think they were responsible enough or educated enough to vote. That's just the truth of it. They also feared that people with nothing would vote against all the land-owners (like themselves) in that situation.
and it is still needed...more than ever. It is funny how the more things change, the more they stay the same.

If there is a blue wave this fall and Democrats win control of everything, it won't change the fact that people want real democracy, it won't change that the EC is inherently anti-democratic, etc. I would get rid of it under any circumstance. Blue power, red power, whatever.
Easy to say that now. Why weren't you saying it under Obama?

Lets be real guys. This will be a non issue if dems win. It will be THE issue if they lose
 
The article explained why it's an outdated system and why change is needed to keep up with the current times. You won't discuss that, you are just hung up on the 1st paragraph instead of arguing over what the article is discussing. You aren't having a discussion over my stated intent (which is the depth of the article) because you are a dip****.

I don't care about the article. We were talking about the SC decision.

You are just looking at headlines.

In no way is that SC decision discrediting the EC at all. zero. zilch
 
Ugh. Then why don't the states use the EC to elect a governor?

You are really good at unknowingly making the case against your position lol

If the US was the size of an average state, you wouldn't need teh EC today.
 
The SCOTUS had to rule on this because 18 states had no rule for if the elector voted against the popular vote of their state. and 17 of the 32 states that had rules had no punitive measure for if it happened. The system is flawed and doesn't truly allow every vote to count the same as others.

Anything that needs a fix or improvement is flawed and should be destroyed. Got it.

Your car's side mirror doesnt move anymore when you push the button? Take it to a car crusher for scrap! Biden 2020
 
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Ugh. Then why don't the states use the EC to elect a governor?

Maybe they should. I actually thought about that the other day when oklahoma had a vote on some issue ha. Cities went 1 direction. All 1000 Rural counties went other way
 
I don't care about the article. We were talking about the SC decision.

You are just looking at headlines.

In no way is that SC decision discrediting the EC at all. zero. zilch

Well I was talking about the article.

It’s showing the need to get rid of it because they are having to rule on issues like this.
 
You are really good at unknowingly making the case against your position lol

If the US was the size of an average state, you wouldn't need teh EC today.

Why not? All the countries that still use it are the size of an average state besides India (but their real power is from the PM).
 
Well I was talking about the article.

It’s showing the need to get rid of it because they are having to rule on issues like this.

OK. sure seemed like you were referencing the SC decision and not the article. But i'll take you at your word
 
Anything that needs a fix or improvement is flawed and should be destroyed. Got it.

Your car's side mirror doesnt move anymore when you push the button? Take it to a car crusher for scrap! Biden 2020

Any system that is better for the country should be implemented. If my 1804 pickup has a ton of issues, but I can fill out some paperwork & get an updated, better working truck then I’ll probably do that.
 
Why not? All the countries that still use it are the size of an average state besides India (but their real power is from the PM).

I don't care about small countries I've never heard of.

When you have people confined to a geographic area, there is a large chance that they have similar opinions. The larger and more populated the area becomes, the more differences you will see.

If the US was the size of many of the European countries, I would agree that the EC isn't needed.

But the US has a large population within a very large land mass and many different beliefs.
 
OK. sure seemed like you were referencing the SC decision and not the article. But i'll take you at your word

My wording at the beginning absolutely made it sound like the decision. So I definitely see where there was confusion caused on my part.
 
I don't care about small countries I've never heard of.

When you have people confined to a geographic area, there is a large chance that they have similar opinions. The larger and more populated the area becomes, the more differences you will see.

If the US was the size of many of the European countries, I would agree that the EC isn't needed.

But the US has a large population within a very large land mass and many different beliefs.

Many different beliefs. So why doesn’t my belief and vote get used at all?
 
Any system that is better for the country should be implemented. If my 1804 pickup has a ton of issues, but I can fill out some paperwork & get an updated, better working truck then I’ll probably do that.

But if your 1804 has only a broken tail light and you fix the tail light, you've got a perfect badass 1804 truck that doesnt need replaced
 
Many different beliefs. So why doesn’t my belief and vote get used at all?

Bc it wasnt the default rule so you as the movant have to clear unbelievable hurdles to change it. Tough luck. Look forward to hearing the continued *****ings for the next 50+ years of my life
 
But if your 1804 has only a broken tail light and you fix the tail light, you've got a perfect badass 1804 truck that doesnt need replaced

Ok so what is the “tail light” that can be replaced to make the EC a more viable system that truly reflects the vote of every American citizen equally?
 
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