Current Events Thread

[steverocks35]

If YOUR guy isn't going to change things, it makes you look like a moron when you complain when the next guy of the opposite party doesn't either.

These aren't new "problems."

It was a complete non-sequitur, we were talking about Trump throwing a fit that Washington and Cleveland are changing the racist names of their teams. President Obama supports them changing their names and has said so repeatedly.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You really think that tweet isn't racist? He's throwing a fit because the teams want to change their racist names.

I really think it isn't racist at all. Why do teams choose mascots? out of disrespect for the item? No of course not. Do we need to rename the Irish? The Braves? The Sooners? Where do you draw the line?

And calling Senator Warren an "Indian" and "Pocohontas" is also racist, and idiotic.

No, it is insulting the individual for her lies, not for her "race"

 

[thebigabd]

You guys blame trump for everything. You guys don’t get laid, trumps fault. Your faces are ugly, must be trumps fault. You’re ignorant, trumps fault. Can’t get a good job, trumps fault. Uneducated Imbeciles, trumps fault. You’re triggered and your feeling get hurt everyday, it’s trumps fault.

Who did you guys blame for all your problems prior to 2016?

Red Herring: Something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. The red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I grew up in a town of about half natives. My wife, kids, in-laws, & most of my friends back home are native. I’ve asked a lot of them on this topic when the redskins controversy was still going on 5-10 years ago. Here is what they said in regards to each name:

All took offense to redskins.
All took offense to savages.
A little less than half took offense to Indians.
Very few took offense to chiefs. Mostly said you aren’t supposed to have more than one, so I guess more ignorant than offensive to those few.
None took offense to braves, Aztecs, blackhawks, seminoles. Even though a few expressed their opinion on how the tomahawk chant is a little offensive.

Of course these people don’t represent every native, just the 20 or so that know sports that I asked on the subject.

I understand how redskins can be offensive. And I personally wouldn't care if it was changed. But it creates a slippery slope on other renamings.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You guys blame trump for everything. You guys don’t get laid, trumps fault. Your faces are ugly, must be trumps fault. You’re ignorant, trumps fault. Can’t get a good job, trumps fault. Uneducated Imbeciles, trumps fault. You’re triggered and your feeling get hurt everyday, it’s trumps fault.

Who did you guys blame for all your problems prior to 2016?

Bush...duh

 

[steverocks35]

You guys blame trump for everything. You guys don’t get laid, trumps fault. Your faces are ugly, must be trumps fault. You’re ignorant, trumps fault. Can’t get a good job, trumps fault. Uneducated Imbeciles, trumps fault. You’re triggered and your feeling get hurt everyday, it’s trumps fault.

Who did you guys blame for all your problems prior to 2016?

Bigotry and racism aren't really a problem for me personally since I'm white, but since I care about other people I'm against it.

 

[steverocks35]

I understand how redskins can be offensive. And I personally wouldn't care if it was changed. But it creates a slippery slope on other renamings.

Slippery Slope is a specific type of logical fallacy. A logical fallacy is a flawed argument. ... Examples of Slippery Slope: If we allow the children to choose the movie this time, they are going to expect to be able to choose the school they go to or the doctors they visit.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Red Herring: Something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. The red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic

There is more than one way to be racist or non racist.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Slippery Slope is a specific type of logical fallacy. A logical fallacy is a flawed argument. ... Examples of Slippery Slope: If we allow the children to choose the movie this time, they are going to expect to be able to choose the school they go to or the doctors they visit.

They aren't a fallacy at all. it is a legitimate concern.

You give an inch, and a mile is taken. The phrase has meaning and it isn't a fallacy to point it out. It doesn't mean an action shouldn't be done, but it is prudent to bring up consequences of actions.

 

[steverocks35]

There is more than one way to be racist or non racist.

Do you even know what you're talking about?

 

[steverocks35]

They aren't a fallacy at all. it is a legitimate concern.

You give an inch, and a mile is taken. The phrase has meaning and it isn't a fallacy to point it out. It doesn't mean an action shouldn't be done, but it is prudent to bring up consequences of actions.

It's a definite logical fallacy. "If the Redskins change their name then the Fighting Irish might change theirs!"

So what? That's not a reason.

 

[thebigabd]

I really think it isn't racist at all. Why do teams choose mascots? out of disrespect for the item? No of course not. Do we need to rename the Irish? The Braves? The Sooners? Where do you draw the line?

Many of those names aren't in reference to a skin color or physical characteristic.

My position on this is simple... It's not up to us, as white people, to decide what is racist. The National Congress of American Indians want the names changed and say they are racist. Many of the tribes have that position. Although, I have seen polling that shows 90% of Native Americans are not offended, although only 500 were polled.

White people don't have the experience that black people, asians, native americans, etc have. We read about our history and all the successes we have had. They read their history and its above slavery, oppression, genocide, exclusion, etc. How can I possibly understand their experience?

If the tribes want it changed.... then change it. It's not up to me and you.

It looks racist to me (see below), but again, if the tribes and leadership have a position that they want it gone, then so be it. That is the only reasonable position.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It's a definite logical fallacy. "If the Redskins change their name then the Fighting Irish might change theirs!"

So what? That's not a reason.

It is a reason. The consequences of an action should be considered.

Pretty soon it could be names that are in no way insensitive except to the people that aren't even represented by the group it supposedly offends. Like the Braves, or Chiefs, or Irish, etc.

We are seeing it play out right now in hyperspeed. Police allowed statues of confederate generals and figures to be vandalized and torn down. Regardless of the opinion of it those statues should be there, more statues were torn down. And pretty soon you have George washington, fredrick douglas, and Abe's statues coming down.

That is the slippery slope. It doesn't mean the first action shouldn't be done...but it isn't incorrect to consider the ramifications and prepare for what they may be.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Many of those names aren't in reference to a skin color or physical characteristic.

My position on this is simple... It's not up to us, as white people, to decide what is racist. The National Congress of American Indians want the names changed and say they are racist. Many of the tribes have that position. Although, I have seen polling that shows 90% of Native Americans are not offended, although only 500 were polled.

White people don't have the experience that black people, asians, native americans, etc have. We read about our history and all the successes we have had. They read their history and its above slavery, oppression, genocide, exclusion, etc. How can I possibly understand their experience?

If the tribes want it changed.... then change it. It's not up to me and you.

It looks racist to me (see below), but again, if the tribes and leadership have a position that they want it gone, then so be it. That is the only reasonable position.

I understand....the problem I see is like you stated...the majority of the tribes don't care and the vocal opposition is driven by a very small percentage. So decades of tradition and history is torn down for a small few.
Where do you draw the line? What about Chiefs? What about Braves? What about Sooners? What about Irish? What about Vikings? What about.....

 

[sheepdogs1]

I understand....the problem I see is like you stated...the majority of the tribes don't care and the vocal opposition is driven by a very small percentage. So decades of tradition and history is torn down for a small few.
Where do you draw the line? What about Chiefs? What about Braves? What about Sooners? What about Irish? What about Vikings? What about.....

If people look for trouble they will find it. It's nothing new.

 

[WTSooner]

So just how many people have to be offended by something before we force it to change? There is a lot of stuff that I don't like, that I find offensive, but I'm a grown ass man so I keep my mouth shut (most of the time) and go on living my life.

Let's say for a minute that Native Americans have every right to be offended by the Redskins name, or the Indians name or logo. So what? That is the BS kind of offended that doesn't really affect "real life". If they don't like those things, for the most part, they can avoid them. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I grew up in the "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" era. Words rarely have any affect on me. I don't much care what people say (obviously there are exceptions to what I consider acceptable, especially in public). Say what you want about me. About my family. About my looks. About my state. About my ethnicity. About my beliefs. Just don't actively "oppress" me. Don't "stand in my way." But words man. I just don't get it. Grown people letting the name of a football team cause them grief? Sorry, but I don't have to be a minority to think that is silly.

 

[WTSooner]

I understand....the problem I see is like you stated...the majority of the tribes don't care and the vocal opposition is driven by a very small percentage. So decades of tradition and history is torn down for a small few.
Where do you draw the line? What about Chiefs? What about Braves? What about Sooners? What about Irish? What about Vikings? What about.....

Cowboys. Rangers. I think you could argue both of them have "sketchy" pasts, depending on how you want to define things.

It's ridiculous.

 

[steverocks35]

Cowboys. Rangers. I think you could argue both of them have "sketchy" pasts, depending on how you want to define things.

It's ridiculous.

What if they were the Washington N-words, would you care then? Some things have racist connotations and some things don't. Naming a sports team a derogatory name for a race of people that have been subject to genocide and discrimination for a few hundred years is not the same as "Cowboys."

 

[steverocks35]

By the way, Northeastern State University changed its name from "Redmen" to "Riverhawks" several years ago, way ahead of the curve.

 

[WaymanFan]

The Native Americans need to vote on whether the Washington Redskins should change their team name. From what I have heard in the past, only a very small minority are offended by the word "Redskins". As far as I'm concerned, their opinions should be the only one that matters.