Dashawn Harden

[BanjoCharley]

Ouch

 

[soonerstar]

I think it was the Central Michigan game where she had the consecutive turnovers Oliver is talking about.

 

[AustinTXSooner]

I think it was the Central Michigan game where she had the consecutive turnovers Oliver is talking about.

In that game, she had turnovers in two consecutive possessions. We had 24 turnovers that game. We did have turnovers on 5 straight possessions, but they were not all on Morgan.

17:03 Turnover Hook
16:33 Turnover Ellenberg
16:24 Turnover Griffin
16:09 Turnover Hook
15:34 Turnover Hook

 

[mikeareese]

I remember someone posting some twitter posts. Harden had nothing but compliments for Coale and how she missed it. I wish Harden had stuck it out. No doubt she could have helped OU this year.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Central Michigan, yes.

And excuse me it was 3 out of five, not four or five straight. After the third one, Sherri sat her down for awhile.

But let's just not conveniently overlook the point I was making.:facepalm

 

[AustinTXSooner]

Central Michigan, yes.

And excuse me it was 3 out of five, not four or five straight. After the third one, Sherri sat her down for awhile.

But let's just not conveniently overlook the point I was making.

I believe your point was that your criticisms were opinions "based upon observation and/or a fact".

I was just pointing out that "facts" are not always what one thinks they are.

 

[SoonerNorm]

That's good, because I sure don't. You are flat out saying that Sherri doesn't play her best players, and that specifically Dashawn didn't get the same opportunities that Morgan did.

I disagree. The general charge that Sherri plays favorites, not the players that can help the team, is shown to be false just by her record. You don't win that much without knowing who your best players are and getting them on the floor and playing together.

The specific charge that Morgan got favors is bogus for the same reasons. DaShawn did some spectacular things on occasion when she played. However, the team did not do as well with DaShawn running the offense as they did with Morgan, and that's what it's all about. The PG position was Harden's to lose, and she lost it.

That said, I don't think playing time was the reason she left. When one transfers from D1 to JUCO, the reason is usually grades.

Tango, I believe it was you who said a few months ago that you wished that Sherri would put Sharane in the starting 5 and leave her there realizing she would make mistakes. But, you thought it would be beneficial in the long run.

I think that is really no different than what some feel about Harden. No, she wasn't as good as Morgan overall but, she showed the most potential, just like you saw the potential in Sharane. Would Sharane be where she is today without the experience she's gotten? I don't think so. Would Harden improved at OU if she would have gotten that much experience? I absolutely think so.

We don't really know why Sherri would not tolerate many mistakes on her part that she would if it were Whitney, Aaryn, or Morgan. The only thing we know is, she was always about 1 bad pass away from the bench. To say that Harden was not on a short leash just isn't reality.

 

[35TangoTango]

Tango, I believe it was you who said a few months ago that you wished that Sherri would put Sharane in the starting 5 and leave her there realizing she would make mistakes. But, you thought it would be beneficial in the long run.

I think that is really no different than what some feel about Harden. No, she wasn't as good as Morgan overall but, she showed the most potential, just like you saw the potential in Sharane. Would Sharane be where she is today without the experience she's gotten? I don't think so. Would Harden improved at OU if she would have gotten that much experience? I absolutely think so.

We don't really know why Sherri would not tolerate many mistakes on her part that she would if it were Whitney, Aaryn, or Morgan. The only thing we know is, she was always about 1 bad pass away from the bench. To say that Harden was not on a short leash just isn't reality.

Oliver wrote that his opinions were based on observations/facts. Then others exposed that the observations/facts that he based his opinions on were wrong. I think the same thing applies to you here. First, your quote of me about Sharane does not exist in my memory bank. I don't believe I said anything like that. Second, about Harden, I don't have the same recollection about Harden being pulled for mistakes any quicker than anyone else. What I remember about Harden is that she really had no clue as to how to be a distributor point guard. The fact that you seem to forget is that the team has 20 hours a week of practice, and that in large part time on the floor in games is earned in practice, and none of us had observations of those practices.

All that said, Harden wasn't kicked off the team, and there is no evidence that she left because she was unhappy about playing time. So it would seem that the observations/facts upon which you are basing your opinion ("the only thing we know is..."), are wrong.

Understand, this is not an attack, this is criticism.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Oliver wrote that his opinions were based on observations/facts. Then others exposed that the observations/facts that he based his opinions on were wrong. I think the same thing applies to you here. First, your quote of me about Sharane does not exist in my memory bank. I don't believe I said anything like that. Second, about Harden, I don't have the same recollection about Harden being pulled for mistakes any quicker than anyone else. What I remember about Harden is that she really had no clue as to how to be a distributor point guard. The fact that you seem to forget is that the team has 20 hours a week of practice, and that in large part time on the floor in games is earned in practice, and none of us had observations of those practices.

All that said, Harden wasn't kicked off the team, and there is no evidence that she left because she was unhappy about playing time. So it would seem that the observations/facts upon which you are basing your opinion ("the only thing we know is..."), are wrong.

Understand, this is not an attack, this is criticism.

Perhaps I was thinking of someone else rather than you with regard to Sharane.

I certainly agree that playing time is earned in practice. It appears that Harden practiced well enough to see the court because she played. What sent her back to the bench in swift order were mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I think mistakes should send players to the bench but how many times have we seen other players make 4, 5, or 6 tornovers and stay in the game? Several. That is why several of us believe strongly Harden was on a much shorter leash than some of the others who made as many or more mistakes than she did.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

The only facts that have been proved wrong is that I attributed 2 of the five straight turnovers in the Central Michigan game that I should have contributed Aaron and Nicole -- and I got my games mixed up when I said it was Tennessee.

Of course the numbers weren't really my point. That's why I didn't go back to check. I knew Morgan got pulled during that stretch because she was making bad decisions at there were consecutive turnovers, but less than five.

That's when you, Darth, Austin or whomever else it was, started trying to misdirect the thread and put words in my mouth and that of others.

The real points that I was talking about where:

1. That Harden got pulled regularly when she made mistakes, which probably didn't make her too happy. The comparison with Morgan was just that. It was to show that Harden was on a shorter leash than some players who also were making mistakes.

2. That Harden probably left for a variety of reasons, EXCEPT that she was mad that Morgan was getting preferential treatment because Hook was dating Coale's son. The whole agrument was made by another poster and is specious and out of line to begin with. And I said so in my first post following that statement.

3. Finally, Tango, and others, I argued that your claims that Coale never plays favorites is ridiculous. We know she does have favorites. All I said is every coach does that. It's their perogative. I NEVER, EVER said that Coale was playing less talented players than others because the less talented players were her favorites. In fact, in a response to Tango's and Darth's attack, I argued the opposite was true because she doesn't have the bodies and talent to do that.

Others have argued on this board, Tango, over why Sherri wasn't starting Sharane more at the first of the season. I don't know if you were one of those or not, but I think you might have been. I'm not going back to check 6 months worth of posts to see if I'm right or not.

Horse's butts do that because they cannot successfully argue/disagree the original point of a comment.

I think we have all pretty well stated our positions on this subject. The battle lines are drawn like they always are here. No one is going to change anyone's minds.

So, I'm moving on. You guys can do what you like.

 

[AustinTXSooner]

Harden was on a shorter leash because she made mistakes at a much higher rate than anyone else. Harden was making a turnover for every 6 minutes played. The next closest was Campbell at 10.5 minutes per turnover.

Here are the players who had 5 or more turnovers in a game that season:

Player A: 8, 7, 7, 6, 5, 5
Player B: 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5
Player C: 7, 6, 6, 6, 5
Player D: 6, 6, 5, 5
Player E: 5, 5

I'll let you guess who they are.

 

[KCRuf/Nek]

I find it amusing that we're agrguing about individual turnovers concerning a team that year after year is as likely to have 20+ as they are less.