Depth

[sdcloud9]

I look for the newcomers to play quite a bit in the pre-conference games, LK will know his best combinations when the Big 12 comes around.

It will be challenging to find minutes for everyone but that's a good problem to have right now.

Spangler's minutes are the key, imo. He has worn down the past two years (or had injuries, idk). More bodies in the post is a good thing/

 

[WTSooner]

I look for the newcomers to play quite a bit in the pre-conference games.....

I don't necessarily disagree, but he'll also have to be careful, as our OOC games are against quality competition. I doubt LK will want to give wins away just to get those guys experience. It's one reason I wish we had 1-2 more "easy" OOC games on the schedule.

But it'll work itself out.

 

[NickZepp]

We pretty much have the starters set. There won't be a ton of bench play most of the year. If Lattin's offensive game isn't as developed as it needs to be I could see him put to the bench. But other than that I don't see a lot of extra playing time at the other positions barring foul trouble. We are basically going to replace one guards minutes and probably a post player minutes.

 

[AdaSooner]

I don't think anyone isn't excited about the new guys, but it's not either/or. Expecting a pair of freshman to step right up and immediately replace two experienced upper classmen is asking a lot, to say the least.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that Odomes and James have higher ceilings than Booker and Hornbeak, but will they be better as true freshmen than Hornbeak and Booker would have been as a senior and a junior, respectively? That's doubtful. If they are, I'll be thrilled, but also very surprised.

You're right, there is no substitute for experience. Thus, it would be foolish to expect our two freshmen to be as good from the get-go as Booker and Hornbeak might have been if they had stayed for their junior seasons.

Having said all of that, I think it's reasonable to assume that Odomes and James have the potential to be at least as good as Booker and Hornbeak were as freshmen. Both of those players logged quality minutes their first season, which is essentially what I think we can expect from Odomes and James (assuming his recovery is complete and he is able to go full speed this fall).

While I was a big time supporter of Je'lon and Frank. Both players were slowed by injuries their second season. But the fact remains that they did not put up earth shattering numbers at any point of their career at OU.

Je'lon's best season was as a freshmen, when he saw action in all 32 games and made 29 starts (first 20 and final nine)... Averaged 5.6 points, 2.7 rebounds, 1.7 assists and 1.0 steal in 22.7 minutes per game... Shot .374 from field, .333 from 3-point range (25-for-75) and .739 from free throw line. Hampered by a foot injury his sophomore season, he came off of the bench in all of the 29 games he played in to average 5.1 points, 1.8 rebounds and 2.6 assists in 18.2 minutes a contest... Shot .398 from the field, .224 from 3-point range and .764 from the free throw line... Posted a 1.95 assist-to-turnover ratio... Averaged 6.8 points and 3.4 assists over season's final 10 games (.525 field goal shooting).

Don't get me wrong, Je'lon Hornbeak was one heck of a player and I would have been very happy to see him finish his career in a Sooner uniform. I referred to him as the most fundamentally sound of the three freshmen guards OU signed that year. Hield and Cousins were the other two. But, the facts and his stats speak for themselves. IMHO, it's not unreasonable to assume that Odomes in particular is capable of performing equally as well his freshman season.

Booker was not nearly as versatile as Hornbeak. He was a huge asset when he was making his shots from three. Not so much when his shots weren't falling. Following a promising freshman season when he made 37% of those shots, his average dropped to just over 30% his sophomore season. I wish Frank had been able to come back this season, because we will miss his ability to score from deep and his experience. But the truth is, he was pretty much of a one trick pony who never really showed a knack for scoring off of the dribble or by taking the ball to the rim on a consistent basis.

My point is, experience at the D-l level aside, I don't see matching what Booker brought to the team as a major hill to climb. Hornbeak was a different story. He was a very versatile guard who was a more than adequate back up at the point.

 

[usedtobe1]

Good points Ada. I want to add that Hornbeak and Booker came in during a time when OU didn't have much experience or depth. Hornbeak, Hield, and Cousins almost got to play by default..... Kruger didn't have much choice. When Booker came in, they needed some backup from someone who could create some perimeter offense. The freshmen next year can be better players but yet not get the minutes because of all the experience in front of them.

It's a good problem to have.

 

[sperry]

I expect that the combination of the two will be a large upgrade over Booker. It's not ragging on Booker to say he wasn't very good, it's just the truth. Hornbeak is a different story, as once again we will not have a real backup point guard, and even if Hornbeak was no star, he could at least run the point competently for 15 minutes per game.

 

[DenverSooner]

I don't get saying Booker wasn't very good. He averaged a bit over 14 minutes a game and 5 points with 1.4 rebounds per game. He was the second best free throw shooter by percentage on the team. If you double his minutes (to a starter role) and extrapolate his numbers, he would have 10 points and 3 rebounds per game. That is actually pretty darn good in my opinion. It isn't star player good but it is really good for a typical starter. You also have to cut the guy some slack for working through a back injury during the early part of the season. Perhaps if he had not had that injury he would have shot a higher percentage and added a point to his per game average.

 

[Zimwillett]

I don't get saying Booker wasn't very good. He averaged a bit over 14 minutes a game and 5 points with 1.4 rebounds per game. He was the second best free throw shooter by percentage on the team. If you double his minutes (to a starter role) and extrapolate his numbers, he would have 10 points and 3 rebounds per game. That is actually pretty darn good in my opinion. It isn't star player good but it is really good for a typical starter. You also have to cut the guy some slack for working through a back injury during the early part of the season. Perhaps if he had not had that injury he would have shot a higher percentage and added a point to his per game average.

Agreed. My major complaint about Frank, and it's been raised here, is that his game was extremely limited. Last season about 82% of his shots were from 3, and many of those were horribly ill-advised.

I'm still in the camp that would rather have an experienced guy like Frank coming off the bench over a true freshman, but I can definitely see why some are excited about the possibility of bench players with more expansive offensive games.

 

[dahldennsull]

Just to add more information on the Frank argument, for a lot of the threes he made, you could say his man took him off the dribble and scored on the defensive end. On the whole, he could outshoot his man when he was hot, but you had to get him going from deep. As Zim mentioned, he didn't exactly take a lot of other shots or have other parts to his game. When he tried to drive he turned it over a lot, and would get lost a lot on defense. I think that was a big reason for stretches he wouldn't play, I just don't think the coaches could trust him like they could other players to do the other stuff needed than 3 pt shooting.

 

[SoonerinNC]

If you remember in 12-13 Kruger started the three freshmen ahead of Fitz, Clark and Grooms who had only 9 starts between them (Grooms had 8). Cousins faded at the end and Grooms got some of the starts. Fitz was a senior and the other two were juniors.

I felt at the time that Kruger decided that the freshmen's upside trumped the experience of the others.

I think how much upside he sees in the newcomers and how long he expects them to take for them to reach a level where he can trust them will determine how much they get early quality practice time. 2012-13 was the year that Kruger had most of his practices available on line. He had the three frosh working consistently with Osby and M'Baye from the beginning.

We should know early on what role he expects the newcomers to play. Also he has the summer workouts to evaluate them.

As for Booker, I thought that in his freshman year he was showing signs of becoming an excellent all-around player. But he regressed last year and was inconsistent. And seemed to force the game rather than let it come to him. He played with a bad back for a while and bad backs and basketball do not go well together. I speak from experience. Had a sore back for a half dozen games my sophomore year in high school. You can't hardly do anything.

 

[Zimwillett]

If you remember in 12-13 Kruger started the three freshmen ahead of Fitz, Clark and Grooms who had only 9 starts between them (Grooms had 8). Cousins faded at the end and Grooms got some of the starts. Fitz was a senior and the other two were juniors.

I felt at the time that Kruger decided that the freshmen's upside trumped the experience of the others.

I think how much upside he sees in the newcomers and how long he expects them to take for them to reach a level where he can trust them will determine how much they get early quality practice time. 2012-13 was the year that Kruger had most of his practices available on line. He had the three frosh working consistently with Osby and M'Baye from the beginning.

We should know early on what role he expects the newcomers to play. Also he has the summer workouts to evaluate them.

As for Booker, I thought that in his freshman year he was showing signs of becoming an excellent all-around player. But he regressed last year and was inconsistent. And seemed to force the game rather than let it come to him. He played with a bad back for a while and bad backs and basketball do not go well together. I speak from experience. Had a sore back for a half dozen games my sophomore year in high school. You can't hardly do anything.

I don't dispute that Lon will play true freshmen if they're ready, but this is a very different team from the 2012/13 roster. Hield, Cousins and Hornbeak got starter minutes by default that season. Pledger and Grooms were the only upperclassman guards on scholarship.

This year, Kruger returns 3 seniors and a junior at guard. Three of those guys have averaged about 30 minutes per game the last two seasons. Woodard, Cousins, and Hield will average about 30 (or more) per game again this season. That doesn't leave a lot of minutes for Odomes, James, or Walker. Even fewer if Buford factors in at all as a wing. Because of that, I'd wager all the money currently in my wallet that one or two of those 3 aren't getting anything more than mop up time by the end of the season. It's a good problem to have.

 

[AdaSooner]

I was a Frank Booker fan from the time he committed to OU to his departure last year. In case some of you don't remember, I'm the one who said before he even arrived on campus that he had the potential to be the best three point shooter in OU history. I'm not too proud to admit that I might have gone a little overboard with that bold prediction.

Booker was a good player. He just never reached the lofty heights I expected when he signed with OU. The problems he had with his back was definitely a factor in his development last season. But, as I pointed out earlier and others have also said, he was limited in what he could do offensively. Does that mean he didn't do some things well? Absolutely not. Frank had his moments, and I for one was hoping he would finish his career at OU. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way.

But, by the same token, I'm not going to pretend that what he brought to the team last year can't be replaced by one or both of our two talented freshmen. I repeat, we'll miss Frank's experience. I don't believe the team will miss a beat when it comes to the athleticism and talent Odomes and James will bring to the game on offense as well as defense.

I was wrong about Booker setting the OU three point shooting record. Time will tell if I'm wrong about the two freshmen being more than adequate replacements for our former Sooner.

 

[sooner333]

I won't rag on Booker. He was practically to sole reason we beat Dayton and got to play in the Sweet 16. I could never forget a Sooner who was the primary reason for an NCAA Tournament victory.

The Alex Spaulding corollary.

 

[sperry]

I don't get saying Booker wasn't very good. He averaged a bit over 14 minutes a game and 5 points with 1.4 rebounds per game. He was the second best free throw shooter by percentage on the team. If you double his minutes (to a starter role) and extrapolate his numbers, he would have 10 points and 3 rebounds per game. That is actually pretty darn good in my opinion. It isn't star player good but it is really good for a typical starter. You also have to cut the guy some slack for working through a back injury during the early part of the season. Perhaps if he had not had that injury he would have shot a higher percentage and added a point to his per game average.

He was a poor defender, a poor ball handler, and was not a good shooter. Extrapolating bench players numbers from a small sample size is not a worthwhile exercise. I honestly believe he woudl ahve been fighting tooth and nail with James and Odomes to keep his minutes had he stayed.

 

[SoonerTraveler]

If I had my druthers, I would take an experienced bench player that is a proven contributor to a Sweet-16 team over a freshman that will go through growing pains learning the college game. The fact is that “young players and transfers” go together like “marriage and divorce.” Hornbeak and Booker, by their own actions, decided to divorce themselves for the OU basketball program. I look forward to watching the players that want to be here.

Over the years, the players that have left the program do not have a memorable record of becoming all-star type players. Ryan Humphrey is the one player I recall that left OU and really excelled at his next school. I guess Lawrence McKenzie also did quite well.

 

[cowboysooner]

Lattin, Spangler, Hield, Cousins and Woodard, with Walker off the bench, is a pretty good team that could be as good as last years team with some improvement from walker and lattin.

I am pumped to see if any of the 6 newcomers can make a difference. Manyang, McNease, Buford, Odomes, James and Alade.

I haven't seen enough or any of these guys to have an opinion yet on what they might bring. Here is what I hope:

Manyang and McNease can man the 5. Lattin, improves his offensive game, and can split time with Spangler at the 4. Buford, has sufficiently improved his ball handling to get back up minutes on the wing. Walker has improved enough to play back up point (instead of cousins). Odomes or James can score at the high D1 level and can give some additional depth on the wing.

There appear to be reasons to believe some or all of this wish list could come true. If so, we will be markedly better next year. Of course, if manyang or Mcnease are impact players at the 5, then we might could really make a run. I look forward to seeing these guys live and getting a feel for whether any of this is possible.

In any event, we will be more athletic and have an experienced team that should be able to defend, handle the ball and score. I would worry a little about rebounding.

 

[DenverSooner]

I honestly believe he woudl ahve been fighting tooth and nail with James and Odomes to keep his minutes had he stayed.

Possibly, maybe even probably but I disagree that he wasn't very good. I thought Frank Booker was a solid player. I wish I wasn't very good like Frank Booker.

 

[Salt City Sooner]

If I had my druthers, I would take an experienced bench player that is a proven contributor to a Sweet-16 team over a freshman that will go through growing pains learning the college game. The fact is that “young players and transfers” go together like “marriage and divorce.” Hornbeak and Booker, by their own actions, decided to divorce themselves for the OU basketball program. I look forward to watching the players that want to be here.

Over the years, the players that have left the program do not have a memorable record of becoming all-star type players. Ryan Humphrey is the one player I recall that left OU and really excelled at his next school. I guess Lawrence McKenzie also did quite well.

Out of that same class, Drew was pretty solid @ Xavier as well.

 

[BCSooners]

Out of that same class, Drew was pretty solid @ Xavier as well.

Brandon Faust

 

[ChongoChingi]

He was a poor defender, a poor ball handler, and was not a good shooter. Extrapolating bench players numbers from a small sample size is not a worthwhile exercise. I honestly believe he woudl ahve been fighting tooth and nail with James and Odomes to keep his minutes had he stayed.

I believe he left because he saw this coming. He knew he was going to be losing minutes to younger players. Maybe even coach told him that he was going to have to fight hard for his limited minutes. I always thought he thought a lot of himself and was a bit of a prima donna. And it looks like he left when he heard that the road ahead was going to be tougher.