Flagrant Fouls

[skyvue]

Tanner’s foul was viewed as “intentional” by the official. Thus, the crossed arms above the official’s head. The new terminology as of a few years ago is “flagrant.” The result is the same, two free shots and the ball out of bounds.

Tanner did nothing to disguise the foul. It was a foolish move on his part. He fouled the guy! Period.

How many times do we see a guy on a breakaway get fouled on purpose with no intentional/flagrant call? How often in the final two minutes of a game does the trailing team clearly foul on purpose, with no intentional/flagrant foul called?

How many times have we seen a player get called for a flagrant foul on a wayward elbow when clearly there was no intent on his part?

I'm not saying you're wrong, Ada, but if you're correct, it excuses/explains nothing--because there is rampant inconsistency in the calling of these intentional/flagrant fouls.

 

[Soonerinkc]

I’m glad you mentioned the erroneous out of bound call. I’ve been reading this thread to see if anyone would bring it up. If that call had been reviewed, it would have almost certainly gone against OU at a crucial part of the game

Tanner’s foul was viewed as “intentional” by the official. Thus, the crossed arms above the official’s head. The new terminology as of a few years ago is “flagrant.” The result is the same, two free shots and the ball out of bounds.

Tanner did nothing to disguise the foul. It was a foolish move on his part. He fouled the guy! Period. The official thought it was intentional. Right or wrong, it was a judgment call. The official could have just as easily called it a common foul, and IMO that’s what he should have done. But when Tanner left no doubt that he was there to take control of the middle, he left the door open for the official to judge what he did as intentional.

It’s the same foul as officials used to call intentional. Now it’s called a flagrant foul, “Flagrant One” in this case. The penalty for a Flagrant Two is two free throws, the ball out of bounds, and the offending player is ejected.

YUP...can't believe folks on here don't think he intentionally threw his elbow at him...it was because the tt guy knocked the crap out of him right before as Tanner was coming across the lane to post up.

Should Tanner's have been called a flagrant.?..that debatable but if the ref had called the TT foul ON Tanner first it wouldn't have happened. I'm more upset the TT foul wasn't called..

To each their own...

 

[Max Power]

This is certainly true, but MAN Oklahoma has been on the wrong side of flagrant calls seemingly 100% of the time this season!

It’s almost as if ou did something to piss off conference officials…

 

[AdaSooner]

How many times do we see a guy on a breakaway get fouled on purpose with no intentional/flagrant call? How often in the final two minutes of a game does the trailing team clearly foul on purpose, with no intentional/flagrant foul called?

How many times have we seen a player get called for a flagrant foul on a wayward elbow when clearly there was no intent on his part?

I'm not saying you're wrong, Ada, but if you're correct, it excuses/explains nothing--because there is rampant inconsistency in the calling of these intentional/flagrant fouls.

You’re right, Sky, when the coach on the team behind in the score is screaming at his players to foul to stop the clock, everybody in the arena and watching on television knows a foul is intentional.

If it’s too obvious I have seen it called before, but it’s rare, and rarer now than it used to be. I think it may be an accepted fact now fact that a foul to stop the clock is not intentional, unless it is excessive enough to harm someone.

As for the call in question. I don’t know how anyone can watch a replay of what Tanner did and ask why a foul was called? In the official’s judgment, the foul was intentional. The crossed arms above his head has been the signal for an intentional foul for as long as I can remember.

I think the official should have called it a common foul and moved on. However, Tanner should not have put himself in that position. It was not a smart thing to do.

 

[hoopsaustin]

You’re right, Sky, when the coach on the team behind in the score is screaming at his players to foul to stop the clock, everybody in the arena and watching on television knows a foul is intentional.

If it’s too obvious I have seen it called before, but it’s rare, and rarer now than it used to be. I think it may be an accepted fact now fact that a foul to stop the clock is not intentional, unless it is excessive enough to harm someone.

As for the call in question. I don’t know how anyone can watch a replay of what Tanner did and ask why a foul was called? In the official’s judgment, the foul was intentional. The crossed arms above his head has been the signal for an intentional foul for as long as I can remember.

I think the official should have called it a common foul and moved on. However, Tanner should not have put himself in that position. It was not a smart thing to do.

It's not even a foul.. its basic basketball.

 

[WaymanFan]

It’s almost as if ou did something to piss off conference officials…

Yeah...noticed the same in football...need to get to the SEC ASAP. That said, and questionable flagrant call aside, the officiating was actually fairly consistent last night. They were calling lots of charging calls against BOTH teams. All in all, TTech had 19 fouls called against them and OU 17. Since they weren't fouling down the stretch, it seems like the refs got it right for the most part. When the game was still in doubt, there was a loose ball that went off Goldwire, but the refs gave the ball to us. To me, that was a homecourt call - the ref isn't sure so he gives it to the home team.

 

[WichitaSooner]

It’s almost as if ou did something to piss off conference officials…

Refs work games in pretty much every conference so the guys with the whistles really have no reason to care if OU is changing leagues. Turn on a game any night of the week and you’ll see the same guys calling games all over the country.

 

[jaymOU]

The flagrant last night was a bad call, period. Not sure how that was upheld on review.

That said, it’s funny (not surprising) that no one has mentioned the missed call when the ball went out of bounds off Goldwire with a few minutes left in what was still a competitive game with three or four minutes left. Pretty much the opposite of the call that went against us against KU. After that game, so many people viewed it as the biggest play of the game. But when it went in our favor last night, it goes almost completely unmentioned. Point being, every team and fan base will find something to complain about in every game, especially if you lose. I will never be in the camp that thinks there is a conspiracy to screw a certain team. The only consistently shady thing I see is refs getting intimidated by the crown in Lawrence late in games. I think the vast majority of bad calls throughout the season are due to incompetence or simple mistakes.

I think if you watch the play again, it hits the TT player who is standing out of bounds before the ball hits the ground. It hits his foot right before it hits the ground.

 

[schoonerdriver]

Watching on TV, it seemed as if the ref was anticipating the call. He was so quick with the whistle and a little over the top with the intentional foul signal. He had to of seen what the Tech player did to begin with and waited for Tanner to take the bait. To me it was a common foul at most. Simple hip check something that happens frequently during all games with no common foul called let alone a flagrant.

 

[OrlandoSooner]

I thought Tanner's was clearly a foul. It was more than a strong post. As someone mentioned above, the timing of it mattered also. It was right after the "chippiness" following the tie up.

I'm in the camp that the official should have called the foul (not intentional) and talked to both captains or coaches about the saltiness. Calling a foul to make a point is OK, but turning a common foul a flagrant? Meh - too punitive.

Goldwire's "kick" out of bounds. I would have liked to have seen additional replays. One view looked like it may have caught a TT foot on the way out of bounds, but not sure if that was the right angle to use. Either way - bad calls go both ways. I always feel for the big guys matched up against smaller players. It seems "easy" for a big dude to truck a guy Gibson's size to the ground and look like a charge when it may have been little more than a simple bump.

I might be an "old", but my pet peeve is how officials allow 3 steps on the perimeter when receiving a pass and getting into the offense. There is no advantage to the offense, but a general sloppiness to the play.

 

[cowboysooner]

College officiating is completely incompetent and ruining the game. Too much contact allowed. The 3 seconds in the lane rule is completely ignored even when the player is holding the ball in the lane the entire time. And finally, the official are just missing too many calls (particularly wrong since there are 3 officials). I have just seen too many calls that TV plainly shows they got wrong and they consistently miss that a defendant has his feet on or inside the semi-circle and call a charge.

Every few years, they will talk about this at the NCAA and tell everyone they are going to emphasis cleaning up the game but back off after Tom Izzo, Huggins and others ***** about the refs becoming the focal point of the game.

Not just me, Jay Bilas was calling the Texas/ Kansas game and constantly talked and complained about the physical nature of the game. Once he said he saw 5 uncalled fouls on one possession. Another time, he said a football game has broken out.

I guess some like it, I don't. You take your life in your hands to drive to the basket anymore. Not sure how we got to this point.

 

[WichitaSooner]

If college basketball would just make a decision to fix the charge/block call, I would be able to live with most of the other crappy calls. It’s disgusting how many charges are called when a help defender slides under a guy who is driving to basket or in the process of going up for a layup/dunk. 90 percent of those should be called blocks. That call should be officiated then way it is in the NBA. Force guys to actually play defense rather than just position themselves to get run over while not making any legitimate effort to defend.

 

[Soonerinkc]

If college basketball would just make a decision to fix the charge/block call, I would be able to live with most of the other crappy calls. It’s disgusting how many charges are called when a help defender slides under a guy who is driving to basket or in the process of going up for a layup/dunk. 90 percent of those should be called blocks. That call should be officiated then way it is in the NBA. Force guys to actually play defense rather than just position themselves to get run over while not making any legitimate effort to defend.

agree...I've seen more times than not the defender actually move over after the off player is in the air...or starting their jump.