GIVE LON CREDIT thread ....

[SoonerinNC]

There are several factors that have been overlooked.

We have had a lot of close games. We won all of them pre-conference. We have lost many of them during conference play. Exceptions are Kansas State and Baylor at home where we got blown out. This team is not that far away.

This conference is the most balanced in many years. It's strength is evidenced in how many teams have beat or played Kansas close. Kansas still has a lot of talent. Only OSU and maybe West Virginia is not in most every game.

Our senior class has overall underperformed. Muni has been almost non-existant, James has fallen off his earlier performance and Odomes has up and down games. Being without an effective center has put the team in a real tough position. Good to not hear the bench Doo cries now.

We are hurting at point guard. Too bad we didn't get the Baylor guy instead of Calixte. Wonder how Baylor and Iowa State get all of those high talent transfers. I like Jamal for a lot of reasons but except for a couple of games has been no threat to score. Maybe it would have been better if Jordan Shepard had stayed.

I think Lon is a good coach but he seems to prefer the diamond in the rough to the elite one and done guys. He has a great track record of turning programs around but has usually lacked the super star that helps win championships. His top players are usually the diamond in the rough like Buddy who I believe was a 3* coming out of high school. It is possible he prefers to stay away from the cess pool that exists in the recruiting of the elites. Unfortunately the "diamonds" in our senior class have not developed like Buddy and Isaih.

But when you consider our history OU has rarely landed the blue chippers and the ones we have had (Wayman, Adams, Blake and TY) have primarily been Oklahoma kids.

I really think his poorest job at OU was last year when he seemingly allowed TY to run out of control and lost all team unity.

 

[sperry]

That was a nice performance yesterday. I'm still hopeful (although not optimistic) that we pick up 3 more wins and sneak into the tournament.

 

[BCSooners]

I gave Lon credit earlier....but let's not salivate over the tremendous job he's done during the conference portion...because it hasn't been the case. I think Lon can coach really well at times...but a segment of coaching is finding the right guys to get the job done. And more specifically.....having the right guys in the right place in your system to have success within your plan. To be candid, this season (in conference) has been a disaster thus far. I would love nothing more than for this group to prove me wrong.....and find a way to right the ship. And I'm hopeful that they can.....but I'm not optimistic.

The losing streak doesn’t mean he isn’t doing a good job, sometimes a losing season is when a coach does his best. McNeace is hurt & no true difference maker (which to an extent is Lon’s fault).

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

It's interesting that some of the people who've been bashing Lon are the same ones who were saying before the season that this team would have 20 losses and be as bad as the team 2 years ago. Now, they're complaining that the team will "only" win 17 or 18 games.

Lots of goalpost moving around here.

 

[cvangild]

It's interesting that some of the people who've been bashing Lon are the same ones who were saying before the season that this team would have 20 losses and be as bad as the team 2 years ago. Now, they're complaining that the team will "only" win 17 or 18 games.

Lots of goalpost moving around here.

I have thought that EXACT thing!!! I mean, this team has actually surpassed their expectations...yet LK is still ripped and many think we should FIRE him and put a top 15 recruiting class at risk!!?? I mean Saturday's game was a perfect example of what 80%+ of our issues have been in conference play......SHOOTING!! We have shot it HORRIBLY over the past month...3 pt % under 30%, FT % has been nelow average (with SEVERAL key misses recently), yet some think that's all on LK?? I guess Lon just coached "better" Saturday which caused CJ, Manek and company to actually MAKE some open 3's instead of missing open shots. Same with FT'S!! We hit key FT's down the stretch!! The end of the Baylor game was a total diaster mainly because key players could hit a effin FT at crunch time!! We had a SENIOR who is our leading scorer and is shooting 80% from the FT line miss not one buy TWO FT's badly..then we turn the frickin ball over...so we end up with ZERO points on a possession where we could have gotten 0-5 points. Sorry..but that's on the players!

 

[skyvue]

If, as so many have suggested, the non-conference wins now don't count for much because those teams aren't very good, then asking how it could be said that the team and Coach Kruger have let us down is a perfectly valid question. Because no one could deny that the heightened expectations (compared to those widely held entering the season) were brought on by those early-season wins.

So either those wins don't count for much or they do, but if they don't, Coach Kruger is off the hook, since the team was predicted to finish exactly where they are currently situated in the standings. The only possible complaint that could still stand is about recruiting, and the 2019 class of recruits appears to be a very strong answer to that complaint.

 

[steverocks35]

If, as so many have suggested, the non-conference wins now don't count for much because those teams aren't very good, then asking how it could be said that the team and Coach Kruger have let us down is a perfectly valid question. Because no one could deny that the heightened expectations (compared to those widely held entering the season) were brought on by those early-season wins.

So either those wins don't count for much or they do, but if they don't, Coach Kruger is off the hook, since the team was predicted to finish exactly where they are currently situated in the standings. The only possible complaint that could still stand is about recruiting, and the 2019 class of recruits appears to be a very strong answer to that complaint.

He might be “off the hook” for the record but he’s “on the hook” for the lack of hustle we’ve seen from this bunch, the disorganization with our offensive sets, the lack of discipline in not blocking out and the head-scratching substitution pattern. He’s also on the hook for our overall lack of talent. He is getting paid more money than most of us will ever dream of making and the buck stops with him when it comes to the product on the floor.

Edited to add: The player development has also been abysmal.

 

[WTSooner]

He might be “off the hook” for the record but he’s “on the hook” for the lack of hustle we’ve seen from this bunch, the disorganization with our offensive sets, the lack of discipline in not blocking out and the head-scratching substitution pattern. He’s also on the hook for our overall lack of talent. He is getting paid more money than most of us will ever dream of making and the buck stops with him when it comes to the product on the floor.

Edited to add: The player development has also been abysmal.

Yep. I agree that we're lacking some talent. My prediction at the beginning of the season was that we'd be a bubble type team at best. Sure, the OOC record, even if against worse competition than we thought, changed that. But I expected two things. One, better results in Big 12 play. We should be more competitive than we've been. And second, better coaching. Or more active coaching. Lon coaches his talented teams the same way he coaches his not so talented teams. I think that is a mistake. This team needs Lon to be micro-managing them, so to speak. He needs to be controlling the game more than he did when Buddy and the crew were seniors. I haven't seen enough of that, and I think it affects our W/L record. Those are my two biggest complaints.

 

[thebigabd]

I didn't read all the responses... but this is a funny thread. They've beaten two teams in the league, and you win a game and its all of a sudden "hey praise the coach, we won a game"... TCU is under .500 in the league and didn't even have their best player.

Is it all or nothing? He wins a game and is a good coach again, loses a game and is a bad coach?

I mean, it stopped the bleeding and that is great and all.... but it can't be great coach right after a win, and terrible coach right after a loss.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I didn't read all the responses... but this is a funny thread. They've beaten two teams in the league, and you win a game and its all of a sudden "hey praise the coach, we won a game"... TCU is under .500 in the league and didn't even have their best player.

Is it all or nothing? He wins a game and is a good coach again, loses a game and is a bad coach?

I mean, it stopped the bleeding and that is great and all.... but it can't be great coach right after a win, and terrible coach right after a loss.

Obviously. I think that's exactly the point many of us are making. That is, it is flatout ridiculous to blame every loss on him and act like he is just sitting over there not doing anything to put the team in a position to succeed. And yes, it would also be stupid to act as if one win means someone is a good coach. But if a vocal minority on the board are going to nitpick every timeout he doesn't call in a loss, it's also fair to point to specific things he did to help us win Saturday.

And please stop with the myth that they were missing their best player. Not even a TCU fan or coach would pretend he is their best player.

 

[thebigabd]

And please stop with the myth that they were missing their best player. Not even a TCU fan or coach would pretend he is their best player.

He averages 14.8 points and 4.6 rebounds per game. He leads the team in the 3pt makes by double digits... He is .1 (point 1) points away from being their leading scorer in 10 less minutes per game than the actual leading scorer. He does that at 6'7''... Look at the stretch of games he had leading up to the OU game:

14/6 against KU
17/7 against ISU
12/7 against OSU
17/2 against Texas Tech
22/6 against Florida
15/11 against Texas
12/2 against WVU
30/2 against OU

Maybe we are splitting hairs with the "best player", which is debate on their team... But he is either the first or second best player on their team.... and he has been on a terror prior to missing the OU game.

Come on dude...

 

[coolm]

I didn't read all the responses... but this is a funny thread. They've beaten two teams in the league, and you win a game and its all of a sudden "hey praise the coach, we won a game"... TCU is under .500 in the league and didn't even have their best player.

Is it all or nothing? He wins a game and is a good coach again, loses a game and is a bad coach?

I mean, it stopped the bleeding and that is great and all.... but it can't be great coach right after a win, and terrible coach right after a loss.

all your points are well taken. at least he's trying to do something and that makes me happy(-ier). I've also seen Doolittle smiling on the court much more and ever since he started smiling again he's played better.

 

[scrybe]

It completely wrecks a poster's credibility when he/she makes ridiculous claims that Kruger is a sorry coach and/or that he should have coached this year's OU team to a much better record in conference play. Lon has taken, what, three different teams to a Final 4? How many coaches whose D-1 careers spanned 20-30 years never reached a single FF?

If you want to talk about a lack of elite recruiting by Lon, then, yes, we can have THAT conversation. But Oklahoma has never been – and will never be – able to recruit on the same level as Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, etc.

Edit: And I'd like to add that reading this thread has given me a terrible headache.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It is really quite amazing to me that they have not quit and that is a credit to Lon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

why? they are competitors. Have we gotten so used to playings quiting that we now think it is the norm? It isn't. It is a credit to the individual players that they still have the heart to compete..which is what they should be doing.

And it was a great win...but 1 win isn't going to get me too excited. Give me another win vs texas and I'll start to believe we figured something out.

 

[AdaSooner]

I didn't read all the responses... but this is a funny thread. They've beaten two teams in the league, and you win a game and its all of a sudden "hey praise the coach, we won a game"... TCU is under .500 in the league and didn't even have their best player.

Is it all or nothing? He wins a game and is a good coach again, loses a game and is a bad coach?

I mean, it stopped the bleeding and that is great and all.... but it can't be great coach right after a win, and terrible coach right after a loss.

A majority of posts on this thread praised the team for not giving up, complimented the players and the coaching staff for getting a conference road win, and gave Lon props for keeping TCU off balance by using a match up zone and man to man defense effectively.

He has tried versions of a zone for short periods before, but not to the extent we saw on Saturday. I’m one of a number of posters who have said more than once we should be using a zone when our man to man isn’t working. To be honest, that happens much too often because this team has too many weaknesses (as in players who can’t stay with their man) to rely on a man defense. It has been even less reliable with our only shot blocker unable to play.

Nothing I said in response to a good win changes anything. Most of my complaints have been centered around recruiting and developing players since our final four run, not coaching. If I have to eat crow and apologize for everything I said next season, I’ll be the happiest fan on this board! Until then, I will be honest about how I feel if there is a reason to criticize the coaches, but especially if I have something positive to say.

 

[WTSooner]

It completely wrecks a poster's credibility when he/she makes ridiculous claims that Kruger is a sorry coach and/or that he should have coached this year's OU team to a much better record in conference play. Lon has taken, what, three different teams to a Final 4? How many coaches whose D-1 careers spanned 20-30 years never reached a single FF?

If you want to talk about a lack of elite recruiting by Lon, then, yes, we can have THAT conversation. But Oklahoma has never been – and will never be – able to recruit on the same level as Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, etc.

Edit: And I'd like to add that reading this thread has given me a terrible headache.

If you are going to give him credit, you can at least get the number of FF's he's been to right. Two. He's been to two.

 

[Max Power]

BTW mike Boyton and the Cowboys beat TCU tonight.

 

[thebigabd]

BTW mike Boyton and the Cowboys beat TCU tonight.

That TCU team REALLY sucks without Noi.

 

[tooney]

Yep. I agree that we're lacking some talent. My prediction at the beginning of the season was that we'd be a bubble type team at best. Sure, the OOC record, even if against worse competition than we thought, changed that. But I expected two things. One, better results in Big 12 play. We should be more competitive than we've been. And second, better coaching. Or more active coaching. Lon coaches his talented teams the same way he coaches his not so talented teams. I think that is a mistake. This team needs Lon to be micro-managing them, so to speak. He needs to be controlling the game more than he did when Buddy and the crew were seniors. I haven't seen enough of that, and I think it affects our W/L record. Those are my two biggest complaints.

The last minute of the first half was terrible....up seven with the ball with less than a minute remaining......frogs score five to finish the half when we should have had a two to one possession to end the half.

The last few minutes of the last half.....silly mistakes and questionable decisions....

 

[WichitaSooner]

The last minute of the first half was terrible....up seven with the ball with less than a minute remaining......frogs score five to finish the half when we should have had a two to one possession to end the half.

The last few minutes of the last half.....silly mistakes and questionable decisions....

We did have a two for one. Our senior point guard, who was only on the court because Bieniemy had two fouls, handed the ball to TCU on consecutive possessions. And Lon responded appropriately by benching Calixte the entire second half.