Harden trade dumbest move since?

[SoonerBounce13]

what trade was he talking about?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Nonsense. I constantly said if the Thunder were a real title contender they had to pay him and add more assets ignoring salary cap implications. Nobody blows up a young Finals team unless they can't afford to play with the big boys.
.

what trade were you referencing in that thread linked above by smash?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

How many times have I said over the years that 5 nickels does not equal a quarter? You can never get full value for a quarter.

Not an "assumption" how many times have I said it? 50?

but getting some value is better than no value...which is what the thunder would have gotten without trading harden. Presti tried. He knew how good harden was. others didn't. OThers didn't view him as a quarter. Washington wouldn't give up beal.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I think everybody assumed Martin was a rental, so I wouldn't call losing him unlucky. At the end of the day, the guys that were brought in aren't that impressive. They're all easily replaced except Adams, and labeling even him a "great asset" strikes me as an overstatement.

Yes, some of these guys will contribute, but you can get contributions from FA's. It's not like you'd be replacing guys like Lamb with a corpse.

Adams is impressive. especially for a young big. mcgary is going to be really good.

 

[Eielson]

Adams is impressive. especially for a young big. mcgary is going to be really good.

Adams is an asset. Not a great one, but a good one. Ultimately, for this trade to be viewed as anywhere near acceptable, you have to bank on Adams becoming an all-star caliber player, and I'm not counting on that. We'll see, though. You can package all the other players combined from that trade and wouldn't even be able to sniff the 1st rounder for them.

As a Lakers fan, we've had a lot of struggles these last few years, but it's been easy to add "quality" players that add something to the team. At the end of the day, it's incredibly easy to fill your roster with guys like Jordan Hill, Jodie Meeks, Wesley Johnson, Ryan Kelly, Jordan Clarkson, Trevor Ariza, Earl Clark, etc. with 2nd round draft picks and cheap contracts. Those guys are important, and we may have won one less championship without Ariza, but you don't need to trade guys like Harden to get them.

I'm not saying Presti is bad. In fact, I think he's great, but great GMs make bad trades, and this was one of them. Also, it's not like OKC would have had to watch Harden walk away for nothing and had nothing to say about it. They could have traded him a year later.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Ultimately, for this trade to be viewed as anywhere near acceptable, you have to bank on Adams becoming an all-star caliber player,

That isn't close to being accurate imo. Again, harden wasn't going to resign. you go and get the best offer you can.

You can package all the other players combined from that trade and wouldn't even be able to sniff the 1st rounder for them.

Not true either imo. Lamb, martin, mcgary would get you a 1st rounder easily

but great GMs make bad trades, and this was one of them.

In hind sight it wasn't a great trade but still isn't bad.
They got three first rounders, two second rounders, and a rental player that actually made the team better after harden left. All for a 6th man that hadn't proven he could lead a team

Also, it's not like OKC would have had to watch Harden walk away for nothing and had nothing to say about it. They could have traded him a year later.

don't think that is accurate. it was either trade him when they did or let him walk

 

[NickZepp]

BTW Harden broke a record for most turnovers by a player in a game last night.

 

[Eielson]

That isn't close to being accurate imo. Again, harden wasn't going to resign. you go and get the best offer you can.

You don't trade a dollar for 4 quarters in the NBA, and this is more like two quarters and a few dimes/nickels.

Not true either imo. Lamb, martin, mcgary would get you a 1st rounder easily

Lamb has virtually no trade value. With Martin's contract and his age/injury-history, I'm not sure he has a lot of trade value at this point, either. Perhaps you could get a late first round pick if it all matches up.

Even if you throw in Adams, you'd be lucky to get above 10, and would probably fall in the 10-15 range. Not very impressive for an MVP candidate.

In hind sight it wasn't a great trade but still isn't bad.
They got three first rounders, two second rounders, and a rental player that actually made the team better after harden left. All for a 6th man that hadn't proven he could lead a team

You can make the case that it had potential to be good, but it wasn't. Harden is the real deal, and those picks didn't amount to much. Perhaps it wasn't dumb (I'd disagree), but knowing how the future turned out, it was bad.

don't think that is accurate. it was either trade him when they did or let him walk

No. He was a restricted FA; not unrestricted.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Lamb has virtually no trade value. With Martin's contract and his age/injury-history, I'm not sure he has a lot of trade value at this point, either. Perhaps you could get a late first round pick if it all matches up.

Even if you throw in Adams, you'd be lucky to get above 10, and would probably fall in the 10-15 range. Not very impressive for an MVP candidate.

We are talking about at the time of the trade.
And Adams was drafted in the teens. If you trade him and martin and mcgary and lamb, you are going to get higher than waht adams was drafted at. Its not even close

 

[SoonerBounce13]

You can make the case that it had potential to be good, but it wasn't. Harden is the real deal, and those picks didn't amount to much. Perhaps it wasn't dumb (I'd disagree), but knowing how the future turned out, it was bad.

sigh. No point in arguing with somebody that doesn't know what it takes to structure a championship team. moving on

No. He was a restricted FA; not unrestricted.

So other teams could have him given him a max deal right? Thunder weren't going to match it.

I know this is hard for some to understand, but with RW, KD, and serge, harden is not worth a max to the thunder. he isn't. his talents are redundant to what the team already has. His presence, even at his mvp level, isn't going to amount to as much benefit as using the money on a team need would.

 

[bocabull]

That isn't close to being accurate imo. Again, harden wasn't going to resign. you go and get the best offer you can.[/quote

Harden was under contract in 2012-2013 for $5.82 million, then the Thunder would extend the qualifying offer of $7.64 million for the 2013-2014 season making him a restricted feee agent in the summer of 2013. Any offer he signed with another team the Thunder had the right to match.

Back to the original question. Name a dumber trade ever. A team USA player at a position of need, on a young finals team, traded with no chance of losing him to free agency for a minimum of 2 years and even then having a right to match.

This guy ends up 2nd in MVP voting, 1st team All NBA and leads his team to the conference finals. Show me any trade ever even close to this.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Harden was under contract in 2012-2013 for $5.82 million, then the Thunder would extend the qualifying offer of $7.64 million for the 2013-2014 season making him a restricted feee agent in the summer of 2013. Any offer he signed with another team the Thunder had the right to match.

Again, the thunder weren't going to match what Harden would get.

a position of need,

wrong

traded with no chance of losing him to free agency for a minimum of 2 years

He played three of the four years of his rookie contract with the thunder. after his fourth year he would have been a restricted free agent no?

This guy ends up 2nd in MVP voting, 1st team All NBA and leads his team to the conference finals. Show me any trade ever even close to this.

Show me where a team already had two max players on the roster already that also needed the ball in their hand.

 

[Eielson]

And Adams was drafted in the teens. If you trade him and martin and mcgary and lamb, you are going to get higher than waht adams was drafted at. Its not even close

That's certainly not true. GMs love to actually make their own picks, and just because somebody was drafted at a certain spot doesn't mean he holds that value. You're not going to get a #1 pick for Anthony Bennett.

sigh. No point in arguing with somebody that doesn't know what it takes to structure a championship team. moving on

That's silly. OKC fans pretend to know all about what it takes to win championships, but their franchise hasn't won a ring since 70's. I'm a Lakers fan, and have had the pleasure of watching 5 championship teams already this century. It's the superstars that win rings; not the role players. If you're a good GM, you can fill your roster with role players without having to use many resources, and certainly not MVP candidates.

So other teams could have him given him a max deal right? Thunder weren't going to match it.

Just because you match doesn't mean you have to keep him forever. Grab your ring and trade him later.

I know this is hard for some to understand, but with RW, KD, and serge, harden is not worth a max to the thunder. he isn't. his talents are redundant to what the team already has. His presence, even at his mvp level, isn't going to amount to as much benefit as using the money on a team need would.

First off, Harden is a much different player than Westbrook. Second, why shy away from a "redundant" situation? Give me 3 Westbrooks, and I'll take all of them. You can have your balance, I'll settle for awesome.

 

[Eielson]

Not the dumbest trade ever, though. Not even close.

 

[bocabull]

Not the dumbest trade ever, though. Not even close.

Name a worse one.

 

[bocabull]

Again, the thunder weren't going to match what Harden would get.

And there you have it. The Thunder decided to trade Harden. That's the bottom line. It was a decision. He had no choice but to sign with them. It was all in their hands and they made the wrong choice.

Durant is watching all this.

 

[Eielson]

Name a worse one.

Kobe for Vlade
Kareem trade
McHale and Parish for Buddy Carrol
Pippen for Polynice
Dirk for Traylor

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It's the superstars that win rings; not the role players. If you're a good GM, you can fill your roster with role players without having to use many resources, and certainly not MVP candidates.

And OKC has two superstars. thanks for proving my point. :ez-laugh:

First off, Harden is a much different player than Westbrook. Second, why shy away from a "redundant" situation? Give me 3 Westbrooks, and I'll take all of them. You can have your balance, I'll settle for awesome.

please see my comment above about not knowing how to build a championship team.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

And there you have it. The Thunder decided to trade Harden. That's the bottom line. It was a decision. He had no choice but to sign with them. It was all in their hands and they made the wrong choice.

Durant is watching all this.

lol

you damn right. presti knows what he is doing.

He knows you don't pay a player like harden max money when you already have RW and durant.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Boca, I'm still waiting to hear what trade you were talking about that was a very good trade in 2012