Has It Come True?

[SoonerSpock]

Maybe you should be less facetious and more straight forward.

I think I was being fairly straight forward to those in the know.

 

[Southie]

Anyone who does not realize the location of the conference office has the potential of impacting the thinking of the local people who work there is just not thinking. It does not mean it has to cause issues, but it is important for the leadership to make sure it doesn't.

You are reaching.

Let's hear about some important decisions which can be attributed to the Big 12 offices being in Dallas. I mean, they've been there for 20 years now, right?

 

[MsProudSooner]

I think I was being fairly straight forward to those in the know.

In the know? No one ever accused me of being part of the 'in the know' crowd. I need plain speech.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

You are reaching.

Let's hear about some important decisions which can be attributed to the Big 12 offices being in Dallas. I mean, they've been there for 20 years now, right?

Surely you are wiser than you are acting.

What if the office was in OKC and every employee was an OU fan? Do you think other schools would not be concerned?

Here is one for you to think about. When the conference office was in KC, where were the football championship games almost always played? Now where are they played? I do admit I like them better in Dallas, but what someone likes is not the issue. I personally do not think the basketball championships should be in KC, because those facilities are actually in Missouri - and the league has zero schools in that state. Is any other conference playing championship after championship in a state outside their conference?

I'm surprised you struggle realizing the reason the leadership has needed to exercise care with those kind of issues. There are lots of folks that have a lot on the line, and I'm sure that creates a lot of discussion about keeping everything balanced - with no one completely happy no matter what is decided.

 

[Soonerguy06]

Fans of teams that aren't doing well always look for reasons..they want to blame everyone besides the ones that really need all the blame. For starters I would take a look at Sherri Coale...then and only then would I consider blaming the players. Coale is the person that calls all the shots at OU. The refs don't really need to help some of these other teams while playing OU..their coaching and talent will win

+1

 

[Southie]

Surely you are wiser than you are acting.

Here is one for you to think about. When the conference office was in KC, where were the football championship games almost always played? Now where are they played?

I'm surprised you struggle realizing the reason the leadership has needed to exercise care with those kind of issues.

You can't even provide one example? Over a 20 year period? Why are you struggling so much? You started this thread, but you have no relevant examples?

For the record, the first four Big 12 football championships were played in St. Louis and San Antonio. So, you using the KC offices as an excuse is pure garbage.

 

[sybarite]

You can't even provide one example? Over a 20 year period? Why are you struggling so much? You started this thread, but you have no relevant examples?

For the record, the first four Big 12 football championships were played in St. Louis and San Antonio. So, you using the KC offices as an excuse is pure garbage.

Living deep in the heart of Texas for the past 39 years, I probably have a different experience than many. I have noticed that there are several different levels to Texas, Austin. It is a rather progressive and growing city with a good future. The university, itself, is excellent. There is a similarity in the state's view of UT Austin as in Oklahoma with regards to OU. UT Austin is the Teasipper U, the social pretenders, as opposed to A&M (whether Oklahoma A&M or Texas A&M) which tends to be a little more focused on a cowboy image that pretends to be the people's university. All that is well and good.

I can tell you that the Texas populace tends to look at UT Austin as "different" from the rest of Texas or Texans, separate. I think OU has somewhat the same image in Oklahoma.

Then, there is the booster. There is an intense hostility toward the Texas booster. I mentioned the DMN story from the early nineties. The rest of the SWC schools had two opinions: 1. UT Austin runs everything, and 2. officials tend to bend to UT. They also blamed UT Austin for what may be coincidence. Every time a lesser SWC football power started becoming a threat to Texas, it somehow ended up on probation: TCU SMU, Houston, Tech. Arkansas fled rather than be ignored any longer. A&M finally got out of UT Austin''s shadow.

Nebraska's departure was probably the first to be associated with UT. They seemed to feel like they weren't getting a fair shake in the Big Twelve. They also had a relationship with some of the Big Ten schools. But, they had about an eighty year history of being associated with the Big Six, Big Seven, and Big Eight that they gave up on. I think they may have even felt a bit betrayed by OU since it seemed that OU had decided to link itself with Texas, which I think was a mistake. Colorado was a more recent relationship. But, that was a fifty year relationship. Missouri was a bit of a surprise being an eighty year relationship, and I thought they might go to the Big Ten, if anywhere. Frankly, I think Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State would go to any conference that would have them. They just don't generate much interest.

I suspect that Tech still has the same attitude towards UT Austin. But, three Big Eight schools are gone, and A&M is gone. I don''t think they were "going to" as much as "getting away from."

I tend to like Texas, except at the booster level. I do think UT has a bit too much influence over Las Colinas. But, other than the politics, I like everything else about Austin.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

You can't even provide one example? Over a 20 year period? Why are you struggling so much? You started this thread, but you have no relevant examples?

For the record, the first four Big 12 football championships were played in St. Louis and San Antonio. So, you using the KC offices as an excuse is pure garbage.

I'm not interested in hateful talk, so if that is your style, this will be our last conversation.

When did the offices move to Dallas? When did all those schools leave the conference? When did the Championship game start being held in DFW? Once existing contracts came to an end?

My dad went to 28 consecutive MBB championship games. He claims he was driving to KC almost every year - until a few years ago - when it was played in Dallas & even OKC. He pulled out his ticket stub book and they sure seem to substantiate his claim.

I accept that you don't believe any form of bias or selfishness exists, but I disagree with you about that. But people who think such behavior exists and needs to be controlled are not "garbage".

 

[Southie]

Sorry to get off topic, but since you brought up Nebraska, do you honestly believe Nebraska would have left the Big 12 if they were still winning conference and national titles in football? They left because they hadn't won a conference championship since 1999, and knew they were falling further and further behind 2-3 teams in the Big 12 South division.

They thought going to the B1G would help them with their recruiting, and the B1G was down in football at the time. Well, several years later, and their football program is worse than it was in the Big 12. They have no true rivalry games, and can't recruit the state of Texas very well. But, at least they have "financial stability" which is the reason they stated they were leaving for greener pastures.

 

[sybarite]

Sorry to get off topic, but since you brought up Nebraska, do you honestly believe Nebraska would have left the Big 12 if they were still winning conference and national titles in football? They left because they hadn't won a conference championship since 1999, and knew they were falling further and further behind 2-3 teams in the Big 12 South division.

They thought going to the B1G would help them with their recruiting, and the B1G was down in football at the time. Well, several years later, and their football program is worse than it was in the Big 12. They have no true rivalry games, and can't recruit the state of Texas very well. But, at least they have "financial stability" which is the reason they stated they were leaving for greener pastures.

Nebraska has always had a different recruiting source. They even recruited New Jersey well. Florida and Louisiana were also sources. But, the real key was that Nebraska felt a long way from Las Colinas. Notice that the northern provinces left.

 

[Southie]

I'm not interested in hateful talk, so if that is your style, this will be our last conversation.

LOL

You haven't made a single valid point, and your supposed "facts" have already proven to be wrong. So, yes, this should be our last conversation because I schooled you, and you are losing this discussion badly. And, you are just digging yourself deeper with weak excuses about "hateful talk".

Don't start a thread where you can't back up your point.

 

[Southie]

Nebraska has always had a different recruiting source. They even recruited New Jersey well. Florida and Louisiana were also sources. But, the real key was that Nebraska felt a long way from Las Colinas. Notice that the northern provinces left.

As soon as the Big 12 was being formed, the Big 8 schools started voting against Nebraska at every turn, especially on non-qualifiers. So, don't blame Texas for Nebraska feeling like they were losing the power and control they had in the Big 8. Four schools from Texas basically joined the Big 8. The other 8 schools could have continued to vote as one majority block, but they didn't.

 

[sybarite]

As soon as the Big 12 was being formed, the Big 8 schools started voting against Nebraska at every turn, especially on non-qualifiers. So, don't blame Texas for Nebraska feeling like they were losing the power and control they had in the Big 8. Four schools from Texas basically joined the Big 8. The other 8 schools could have continued to vote as one majority block, but they didn't.

Don't forget. The Big Six, Seven, Eight had existed since about 1919 with Nebraska, Iowa State, Missouri, Kansas, and OU in for the entire time.

The SWC was folding up shop. Essentially, Arkansas left. Houston, TCU, and SMU were left to fend for themselves, something the Big Eight didn't do. Texas was considered as the reason that the SWC folded.

Was it really the LHN that kept Texas, A&M, OU, and OSU out of the Pac Ten? Texas wouldn't give up the contract?

 

[Southie]

Don't forget. The Big Six, Seven, Eight had existed since about 1919 with Nebraska, Iowa State, Missouri, Kansas, and OU in for the entire time.

The SWC was folding up shop. Essentially, Arkansas left. Houston, TCU, and SMU were left to fend for themselves, something the Big Eight didn't do. Texas was considered as the reason that the SWC folded.

Was it really the LHN that kept Texas, A&M, OU, and OSU out of the Pac Ten? Texas wouldn't give up the contract?

What does that have to do with the Big 8 schools voting against Nebraska at every turn? They had the authority to vote any way they chose, including OU.

Why didn't OU leave the Big 12 like Nebraska, A&M, or Mizzou? OU still could have left on their own merits to the PAC. Oh, wait. They tried that, and were told "no, thanks".

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Don't forget. The Big Six, Seven, Eight had existed since about 1919 with Nebraska, Iowa State, Missouri, Kansas, and OU in for the entire time.

The SWC was folding up shop. Essentially, Arkansas left. Houston, TCU, and SMU were left to fend for themselves, something the Big Eight didn't do. Texas was considered as the reason that the SWC folded.

Was it really the LHN that kept Texas, A&M, OU, and OSU out of the Pac Ten? Texas wouldn't give up the contract?

Correct, Syb. And OU wanted to join the Pac-12 (The league planned to become the Pac-16), but Pac-12 schools would not accept the demands Texas was making to not have to accept Pac-12 agreements. OU could still have gone to the Pac-12, but was concerned about the Red River Rivalry (and the finances it produced) going away and finally decided to stay. So OU formed their own TV agreement with Fox.

Nebraska was very clear that they did not want to be in a conference controlled by Texas and located in the Dallas area. With the offices moved to Dallas, they realized they would have little input in conference matters, and left. The same issues with Texas led to Colorado, Missouri, and Texas A&M leaving.

The Big12 is still badly hampered by the same issues, and may end up dissolving at some point in the future.

 

[sybarite]

LOL

You haven't made a single valid point, and your supposed "facts" have already proven to be wrong. So, yes, this should be our last conversation because I schooled you, and you are losing this discussion badly. And, you are just digging yourself deeper with weak excuses about "hateful talk".

Don't start a thread where you can't back up your point.

We will continue to disagree. You have your brand of UT facts. I have my idea of facts, along with the knowledge of what I have seen written in the Dallas newspapers.

Your suggestion that "facts" were proven to be wrong is inappropriate. I don't know that anything on a message board is proven, unless it involves spelling or grammar. You simply disagree.

I like UT. But, I don't wear a filter to keep non-UT facts out. UT is beloved in Texas on only one weekend per year---Texas --OU. The rest of the time, I think most non-UT Texans are irritated by UT boosters. Have you not read the stories about UT?

 

[Southie]

OU could still have gone to the Pac-12, but was concerned about the Red River Rivalry (and the finances it produced) going away and finally decided to stay. So OU formed their own TV agreement with Fox.

What a selective memory you have. OU tried crawling to the PAC to get invited after that PAC 16 deal fell through. They were told to bring Texas with them, or forget about it. Plenty of articles out there to support what I am stating.

 

[Southie]

Your suggestion that "facts" were proven to be wrong is inappropriate. I don't know that anything on a message board is proven, unless it involves spelling or grammar. You simply disagree.

I disputed SweetestOUGirl's claims that when the Big 12 office was in KC, the first several football championships were played there because of the offices. The "facts" are clear; those first four football championship games were played in St. Louis and San Antonio.

But, that saying so is "inappropriate"? Please continue to spin things to fit your argument.

 

[sybarite]

I disputed SweetestOUGirl's claims that when the Big 12 office was in KC, the first several football championships were played there because of the offices. The "facts" are clear; those first four football championship games were played in St. Louis and San Antonio.

But, that saying so is "inappropriate"? Please continue to spin things to fit your argument.

Taking one fact out of many doesn't prove an argument. Are you even aware of the anti-Texas stories in the DMN over the past thirty years?

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Taking one fact out of many doesn't prove an argument. Are you even aware of the anti-Texas stories in the DMN over the past thirty years?

Don't worry about him, Syb.

He is just having a bad day. Anyone who wants to do an internet search will learn that it was giving so much control to the Texas schools that drove Nebraska out. They made that very clear.

And that once the contracts were completed, the football championship was moved to Arlington. It had been in Missouri more than any other location until the Northern schools abandoned us. It has now been moved to Dallas for what will be 7 straight games (no game for several years in the middle of that) after this contract unfolds. Who knows what will happen after that.

And OU could have gone to the Pac-12 just like Colorado did, but we were uncertain about the financial issues about giving up the Red River Rivalry. That is why we tried to get Texas to cooperate and give up their TV agreement. They would not, so we finally decided to stay.

I too like Texas - both the state and the University. But I'm not blind to the problems they create by a lack of cooperation with other schools.