if buddy leaves

[Max Power]

Just curious. Who are these 2/3 conference teams and 15/25 teams nationally that are going to leap frog over OU. Who do they lose and who do they have coming back and coming in that that make their prospects brighter than OU's?

We were as good as we were last season partly because Buddy and Thomas are really nice players. We weren't any better than what we were because of a couple of glaring weaknesses. We were undersized and had a thin bench. Those two problems are fixed. If we lose a couple of nice players and replace them with a couple of high ceiling younger ones while shoring up the leaks, how do we get worse?

Recruiting top flight basketball talent to OU has always been problematic and Kruger may have some limitations as a coach. Even with that, the program is in good shape now and has plenty of ceiling left. Kruger has moved the program forward every year and there is plenty of room left. The program will surely take a step back one of these days. But, I certainly wouldn't expect that day to come just because we have a couple of 2nd round draft choices move on.

If we lose the Big 12 player of the year, we will be a little worse than last year. Not much, likely a 4-5 seed instead of the last 3 seed.

 

[geeoh]

Sad that you wish the big 12 POY off the roster. I want to win next year, those pups will learn from buddy and still play a lot.

Don't twist my words. I never said I wished he would leave.

 

[okhoops918]

We have Spangler, Cousins, Woodard, and Lattin this year! We didn't know Woodard would be good that year (heck, he still can't buy praise from a lot on this board). Talking about next year right now is fool's play. Who knows? OU may have another person coming in. I could easily see Kruger's system getting OU to 3rd in the Big 12 on system alone (let alone the talent he has brought in).

That's the point, we're talking about improving or taking a step back.

Assuming that experienced players who got significant minutes don't typically improve production a ton...you can hold those guys the same or maybe like 10% on average growth in production per minute.

That way you know what other guys incoming (new players) need to provide.

That's just from a statistical point of view. Then you have to consider things intangible like team cohesiveness, go-to players, and players you can rely on in tight games.

We lose alot of intangibles if Hield leaves. He was the 1st or 2nd vocal leader behind Ryan. We lose team choesiveness if Hield goes. We lose a big reliable player (he wasn't consistent necessarily) but he was a player we could simple give the ball to in the post and he would more times than not get a bucket or draw a foul in Tashawn Thomas.

We lose a 3 point shooter who could get hot in Booker.

Neither James nor Odomes are great 3 point shooters. Buford isnt either.
Cousins put up a good% cuz he took smart shots but his actual form is below avg.

With hield and booker gone, our 3pt shooting may suffer...causing harder lanes for our new athletic guards and current ones (cousins/woodard) to use to create or drive.

We then dont have a real post offensive presence. Maybe spangler gets some post moves but doubtful. His best bet is to perfect the jumper he has in midrange but he goes in and out of hitting that consistently.

If hield goes, from a production standpoint we lose a lot but the dynamics behind the makeup of our team leave much to be desired.

IDK about national rankings but in Big12, if Hield leaves...it definitely puts us behind KU and ISU (if we werent already...prly were) and probably puts us around Baylor who returns a ton of guys and WVU. I guess we could still finish 3rd if Kruger does a great job but I dont envision a very successful season with our offense running through Woodard, Cousins, Buford plus maybe a freshman off the bench in Odomes.

Spangler, Lattin, Manyang will be great role players. Spangler being one of the best "role" players we have ever had. They just aren't going to be guys we can expect point production through a normal set of offense. Spangler gets the majority of his points from opportune moments int he game rather than through a set offensive play except for a few mid range shots in a set a game.

 

[okhoops918]

Also, people seem to think that every 3* recruit Kruger brings in will turn into Hield/Cousins type players. That's just not very likely... They're more likely be on the level of Booker, Hornbeak, Cousins spectrum rather than between Cousins and Hield IMO.

Hield is the exception to the rule. He is a special player. Big 12 POY. All american.
You cant expect that from Odomes or James realsitically. And the logical thing is to assume theyll end up close to Cousins.

Especially as a freshman, you cant expect too much from them. Even hield as a freshman, you didnt know how special he'd be right now. Good player yes but he was a 16mpg and 7ppg guy.

The top of the big 12 won't get the respect they get this year so the 4th place team will be like a 8 seed. I only see 5 maybe 6 tops get in. No way they let 7 in again.

I think it says alot for Kruger program to be a 8 seed/ 3rd-5th place type team in big 12 if they lose Big 12 POY and starting C (arguably top 2 players on team last year)...definitely top 2 in the NCAA tourny.

But just because we won't be super good doesnt mean its a bad deal. But you have to be realistic I think.

If Hield leaves, we missed our opportunity IMO and Kruger will have to rebuild for future fast because we lose even more after next .

 

[okhoops918]

He had some setbacks during his rehab. He had a bad break and had an operation. I guess because I have screws in my ankle and a plate in my leg after a bad sports injury, I kind of know what he's going thru. He expected to be cleared by the start of the year and it didn't happen for another 2 months.

He wasn't able to dunk until a week or so before his first game back ...... About 6 months after the injury. I know you went to his second game back. He was about 20 pounds over weight and basically played the post.

I just think he still has a lot of work to do after missing his senior year. He's got to be quick enough to play against guys like Cousins if he wants to take Booker's 6th man spot. If he wants to take Buddy's spot (if he leaves), then he has to beat out guys Buford and Odomes..... and those guys aren't shabby. I'm not convinced a summer of pickup ball is enough for him to catch back up. I sure hope so. Time will tell.

I'd be very surprised to see James get a ton of minutes next year even if Hield does leave. I think he's a prime candidate for a RS

 

[SilliSooner]

OK,

I thought I read Odomes was a 50% three point shooter or close (48% his sophomore year) his entire highschool career. Isn't that good enough to replace Booker?

 

[KBaden145]

That's the point, we're talking about improving or taking a step back.



Assuming that experienced players who got significant minutes don't typically improve production a ton...you can hold those guys the same or maybe like 10% on average growth in production per minute.



That way you know what other guys incoming (new players) need to provide.



That's just from a statistical point of view. Then you have to consider things intangible like team cohesiveness, go-to players, and players you can rely on in tight games.



We lose alot of intangibles if Hield leaves. He was the 1st or 2nd vocal leader behind Ryan. We lose team choesiveness if Hield goes. We lose a big reliable player (he wasn't consistent necessarily) but he was a player we could simple give the ball to in the post and he would more times than not get a bucket or draw a foul in Tashawn Thomas.



We lose a 3 point shooter who could get hot in Booker.



Neither James nor Odomes are great 3 point shooters. Buford isnt either.

Cousins put up a good% cuz he took smart shots but his actual form is below avg.



With hield and booker gone, our 3pt shooting may suffer...causing harder lanes for our new athletic guards and current ones (cousins/woodard) to use to create or drive.



We then dont have a real post offensive presence. Maybe spangler gets some post moves but doubtful. His best bet is to perfect the jumper he has in midrange but he goes in and out of hitting that consistently.



If hield goes, from a production standpoint we lose a lot but the dynamics behind the makeup of our team leave much to be desired.



IDK about national rankings but in Big12, if Hield leaves...it definitely puts us behind KU and ISU (if we werent already...prly were) and probably puts us around Baylor who returns a ton of guys and WVU. I guess we could still finish 3rd if Kruger does a great job but I dont envision a very successful season with our offense running through Woodard, Cousins, Buford plus maybe a freshman off the bench in Odomes.



Spangler, Lattin, Manyang will be great role players. Spangler being one of the best "role" players we have ever had. They just aren't going to be guys we can expect point production through a normal set of offense. Spangler gets the majority of his points from opportune moments int he game rather than through a set offensive play except for a few mid range shots in a set a game.

I just want to point out, given OU's recent trend under Kruger and the current roster plus the recruits coming in, you are assuming a lot more than those who think we will still be pretty good. I think you are ignoring a lot of facts and the true reality of the situation in Norman. You're far too worried about what this team is losing. We are reloading not replacing. History and recent trends tell us you are pretty far off on you're expectations for next season, whether Buddy stays or goes. You'll see...


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[KBaden145]

I'd be very surprised to see James get a ton of minutes next year even if Hield does leave. I think he's a prime candidate for a RS

Odomes is an outstanding shooter from distance and I seriously doubt anyone redshirts next season unless an injury crops up.


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[okhoops918]

OK,

I thought I read Odomes was a 50% three point shooter or close (48% his sophomore year) his entire highschool career. Isn't that good enough to replace Booker?

HS vs college. He is an athletic guard who is best driving the ball. Not a pure 3pt shooter.

 

[okhoops918]

I just want to point out, given OU's recent trend under Kruger and the current roster plus the recruits coming in, you are assuming a lot more than those who think we will still be pretty good. I think you are ignoring a lot of facts and the true reality of the situation in Norman. You're far too worried about what this team is losing. We are reloading not replacing. History and recent trends tell us you are pretty far off on you're expectations for next season, whether Buddy stays or goes. You'll see...


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I don't think so but agree to disagree.

 

[OUBig12Champs]

Buford is the key guys, IMO. If Buddy leaves and Buford is as advertised, I really think this team could be better. Lattin should come into is own, Cousins should be a little better, Woodard was playing better at the end of the season, and Spangler is Solid. Buford & Odomes should be able to fill it up! Call me clueless, but either way with or without Buddy this team will be better next season.

 

[okhoops918]

Buford is the key guys, IMO. If Buddy leaves and Buford is as advertised, I really think this team could be better. Lattin should come into is own, Cousins should be a little better, Woodard was playing better at the end of the season, and Spangler is Solid. Buford & Odomes should be able to fill it up! Call me clueless, but either way with or without Buddy this team will be better next season.

I have to 100% disagree with the idea that if Buddy leaves, we will be BETTER next season.

I would love it but that's just so crimson colored glasses bias it's crazy!!!

People act as if Buford and Odomes are 1-and done type talent. we'll be very lucky if either of those guys scores over 10ppg next year.

Its unlikely we are better next year even with Hield returning but certainly possible.

With Hield not returning, its pretty much slim chance. I won't call you clueless but...

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I have to 100% disagree with the idea that if Buddy leaves, we will be BETTER next season.

I would love it but that's just so crimson colored glasses bias it's crazy!!!

People act as if Buford and Odomes are 1-and done type talent. we'll be very lucky if either of those guys scores over 10ppg next year.

Its unlikely we are better next year even with Hield returning but certainly possible.

With Hield not returning, its pretty much slim chance. I won't call you clueless but...

Osby was a better player than Buddy imo....or atleast more important. and we turned out ok after he left

Buddy is invaluable when he is on....problem was that he was too streaky and often times, not on.

He only shot above 50% six games in conference play. In conference and tournament play, he shot 41%. And it seemed he took more shots the worse he was shooting. Toward the end of the season he had lots of 10+ shot games were he only hit a third of his shots

Don't get me wrong, I love buddy and hope he returns but he needs to start expanding his game

 

[OUBig12Champs]

OKHoops, we all see it differently but Buddy got lost in games this year on many occasions. He handles are nothing to write home about either! This team with or without Buddy needs a solid slasher to the rim and they may have that in Buford? Odomes and James should be good players for this program too. Remember, Buddy was good a true Freshmen once.

I will always wear Crimson Glass too, because I am a FAN!