If you were coach, would you cut anyone

[sperry]

From a recruiting standpoint, James, Odomes, McGusty, Lattin, Trae, Doolittle, and Manek were all clearly Power 5 players. We beat out other Big XII schools for every single one of them.

Muni has been a successful project, and Shepherd added quality depth at point. Freeman and Lazenby may never find their spot on this team, but I doubt they'll be around much longer. The jury is still out on Polla.

Could we have done better than Freeman and Polla? Perhaps. But the bigger issue is the lack of development thus far from guys like Odomes, McGusty, Lattin, etc. This team isn't lacking for talent.

The team is lacking for talent. Yes, those guys are all legitimate Big XII level players (although I strongly disagree that Shepherd is quality depth). Most of the guys on the roster can play, they just aren't starter caliber players.

Here is the buckets I would put the guys on the current roster in:

Players who are, or have the talent to be, quality starters on a good Big XII team:

Trae
McGusty
McNease
Manek

Players who could be quality bench guys on a good Big XII team:
James
Odomes
Doolittle
Lattin

Guys who are fringe rotation players:
Shepherd
Polla

Not Big XII talents:
Freeman
Lazenby


Part of this is it was unfortunate that Trae turned out to be so good. Had he been what people thought he would be. A really good guard prospect who would be an all-conference type player by the time he was an upper classmen and potentially an all-american by senior year. Because if that was the case, we'd have something of a real core to build around in Trae and Manek. Instead, Trae is gone and we've got absolutely no one to replace him.

 

[Eielson]

I'm probably a bit naive, or giving him too much of the benefit of the doubt, but I'm still optimistic McGusty will develop like I and probably most people thought he would after such a promising freshman year. I just think he got overwhelmed by Trae being so great and dominant this year, and he struggled finding his niche, dealing with less playing time, coming off the bench, etc.

He still showed some flashes of the brilliance he showed as a freshman, it was just way too few and far between, and I think a lot of that had to do with the lack of rhythm he was unable to get. Some of that he probably brought upon himself, but I'm hoping that with a more consistent role and playing time, he will develop back into a 15-17 ppg player that he was threatening to be after his freshman year. If we're to have any kind of sustained success next year, he really has to be that kind of guy.

I completely agree that I think McGusty will develop into a fine player.

 

[Eielson]

Players who are, or have the talent to be, quality starters on a good Big XII team:

Trae
McGusty
McNease
Manek

Players who could be quality bench guys on a good Big XII team:
James
Odomes
Doolittle
Lattin

Guys who are fringe rotation players:
Shepherd
Polla

Not Big XII talents:
Freeman
Lazenby

I don't completely agree with your brackets, but it appears that you think we have 4 quality starters, and 4 quality bench players. Seeing as there are only 5 starters on a team, and a quality 8-man rotation isn't too shabby, it seems you think talent isn't the issue with this team, either.

 

[sperry]

I don't completely agree with your brackets, but it appears that you think we have 4 quality starters, and 4 quality bench players. Seeing as there are only 5 starters on a team, and a quality 8-man rotation isn't too shabby, it seems you think talent isn't the issue with this team, either.

That's not a good ratio, because the bucket is on talent, not current abilities. If you want to be a consistently good team, you need about 8 guys in that bucket spread out across recruiting classes, so that you're starting your upperclassmen who fit that bill and have young guys who can step in when they're older. Because this year we had to start Manek, who didn't have the physical strength yet to be ready for the grind of the Big XII, as well as McGusty who was not a good fit with Trae.

 

[Eielson]

That's not a good ratio, because the bucket is on talent, not current abilities. If you want to be a consistently good team, you need about 8 guys in that bucket spread out across recruiting classes, so that you're starting your upperclassmen who fit that bill and have young guys who can step in when they're older. Because this year we had to start Manek, who didn't have the physical strength yet to be ready for the grind of the Big XII, as well as McGusty who was not a good fit with Trae.

I suppose I mostly agree with that, but I don't agree with saying that Rivals Top 150 players don't have the talent to be quality starters on good Big XII teams, and that's exactly what Doolittle, Lattin, and Odomes were. I especially find it difficult to claim Lattin is lacking that talent, seeing as he started every game for a Final 4 team as a sophomore. Of those other 4 starters, only Buddy was Rivals Top 150.

I honestly don't understand how anybody can argue that our recruiting hasn't picked up, or that our player development hasn't diminished. It seems pretty obvious.

 

[sperry]

And the other problem being roster management. We signed no point guard in 2014 or 2015, and then got a plan D guy in 2016. That's just inexcusable. If you have two really good point guards, you can start them both like we did with Cousins and Woodard for 3 years. But you've got to have those guys on the roster and in the pipeline.

 

[Eielson]

And the other problem being roster management. We signed no point guard in 2014 or 2015, and then got a plan D guy in 2016. That's just inexcusable. If you have two really good point guards, you can start them both like we did with Cousins and Woodard for 3 years. But you've got to have those guys on the roster and in the pipeline.

That's not so much poor roster management as it is poor luck with Pritchard.

 

[sperry]

I suppose I mostly agree with that, but I don't agree with saying that Rivals Top 150 players don't have the talent to be quality starters on good Big XII teams, and that's exactly what Doolittle, Lattin, and Odomes were. I especially find it difficult to claim Lattin is lacking that talent, seeing as he started every game for a Final 4 team as a sophomore. Of those other 4 starters, only Buddy was Rivals Top 150.

I honestly don't understand how anybody can argue that our recruiting hasn't picked up, or that our player development hasn't diminished. It seems pretty obvious.

While recruiting of HS kids did pick up a bit, in the early Kruger days we were supplementing the HS kids with fantastic transfer players. Krugers first 4 tournament teams featured Ro Osby, M'Baye, Tashawn Thomas and Spangler. All 4 of those guys were all Big XII players. So HS recruiting picked up to an extent, but the impact transfers are completely gone.

 

[sperry]

That's not so much poor roster management as it is poor luck with Pritchard.

There is zero excuse for not bringing in a guy in both 2014 or 2015. Yes, losing Pritchard hurt, although he decommitted in July. We should have been able to bring in a higher level player than Shepherd with that much time.

 

[Eielson]

There is zero excuse for not bringing in a guy in both 2014 or 2015. Yes, losing Pritchard hurt, although he decommitted in July. We should have been able to bring in a higher level player than Shepherd with that much time.

I can't imagine it's easy recruiting another PG with Woodard and Cousins on campus, along with Pritchard in the pipeline. It also really hasn't had that much of an effect yet. The effects will be seen next year, assuming we don't get a graduate transfer. We certainly weren't hurting for talent at PG this year.

 

[DenverSooner]

Football is a different animal when there's 85+ players all coming from different areas for the most part.


Also, you named the top end schools, places people want to go, not the middle of the road schools, where they usually don't get top talent, which is what OU basketball is.

OU is not middle of the pack. There are 300 schools playing D1 basketball. OU is easily too 20% and would say top 10%.

 

[DenverSooner]

Doolittle?

OU was a very good team before he returned.

 

[oudna]

Doolittle?

OU was a very good team before he returned.

He turned Young, James and Manek into crap shooters?

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

I don't honestly see how anyone could say that James and Doolittle can't be starters in the Big 12. James averaged nearly 12 points per game in the Big 12 this season when he only had an 18% usage rate. Doolittle averaged 9 points per game as a freshman. He obviously dropped off this season because he missed the first half of the season and then it was difficult to work him into the rotation during the second half, but these guys can clearly be starters on very good Big 12 teams. One was this year.

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

He turned Young, James and Manek into crap shooters?

correlation does not equal causation

 

[thebigabd]

While recruiting of HS kids did pick up a bit, in the early Kruger days we were supplementing the HS kids with fantastic transfer players. Krugers first 4 tournament teams featured Ro Osby, M'Baye, Tashawn Thomas and Spangler. All 4 of those guys were all Big XII players. So HS recruiting picked up to an extent, but the impact transfers are completely gone.

+1

 

[Chiefdaddy]

This core of players has had their chances and they are still the same players that they were last year minus McNeace. Time to make some roster moves.

Starters-McNeace, McGusty, Manek
Bench Contributors-James, Odomes, Doolittle

We need improvement from all these guys plus add in some grad transfers or juco impact players.

Polla- I actually like him. I would give him more time to develop as the project on the bench. He can help us in my opinion.

Freeman- Release him. He's supposed to be a shooter but he can't shoot in games. He's not strong enough and plays bad defense.

Lazenby- If he didn't get a shot this year, he's not going to get one next year without Trae. Since he will be a senior, he will probably remain on the team or transfer to a lower level.

Shepherd- Well, we pretty much have to keep him since we don't have a PG. He should continue to be a backup PG.

 

[AdaSooner]

From a recruiting standpoint, James, Odomes, McGusty, Lattin, Trae, Doolittle, and Manek were all clearly Power 5 players. We beat out other Big XII schools for every single one of them.

Muni has been a successful project, and Shepherd added quality depth at point. Freeman and Lazenby may never find their spot on this team, but I doubt they'll be around much longer. The jury is still out on Polla.

Could we have done better than Freeman and Polla? Perhaps. But the bigger issue is the lack of development thus far from guys like Odomes, McGusty, Lattin, etc. This team isn't lacking for talent.

I need to set the record straight on the timeframe I was talking about. I should have said our 2018 and 2019 recruiting classes.

Except for the lack of development you referenced, I don’t have a problem with any of the players on your “power five” list. They were all committed or signed during or just after our final four run. Freeman was too. The two assistants (Hartman and Kevin Kruger) I have criticized the past few weeks had nothing to do with recruiting those players. Since Polla’s coach in Finland played for Lon in the NBA, I think it’s safe to assume he was the key to signing Hannes. Lazenby was a Crutchfield recruit, as were most of the players on your power five list, including Trae Young. Coach Crutch was also the primary recruiter with Jamal Bieniemy, a player in our 2018 class I really like.

That brings me to the two new assistants on our staff. I have asked this question a number of times, and I still don’t have an answer. What have they done since joining our staff two years ago? If one or both were responsible for getting a commitment from Kur Kauth, his juco stats (11 and 7, while shooting 17% from three and 57% from the free throw line) have been a real head scratcher for me.

I realize young Coach Kruger and Coach Hartman haven’t had much time to develop a relationship with coaches and recruits, so my criticism may be premature and even unfair at this point. If they hit a home run or two in our 2019 class, I will be happy to apologize for questioning their accomplishments. Nothing would please me more than to be wrong about them.

 

[TINY]

While recruiting of HS kids did pick up a bit, in the early Kruger days we were supplementing the HS kids with fantastic transfer players. Krugers first 4 tournament teams featured Ro Osby, M'Baye, Tashawn Thomas and Spangler. All 4 of those guys were all Big XII players. So HS recruiting picked up to an extent, but the impact transfers are completely gone.

Osby was a capel transfer but yes we need more of this if we are to avoid the ups and downs we have seen recently.

It should also be noted that we tried damn hard to get koulochev and the guy who signed with Oregon. It’s not as though we aren’t trying to sign these guys; just haven’t landed the impact guys.

 

[psk2080]

The more I look at our roster, the more I think that the situation will take care of itself soon enough. Assuming we get a grad transfer for next season, we will graduate 5 guys (4 guards and 1 center) after the season. So fast forwarding to 2019, our roster would look like this (assuming no transfers):

Kristian Doolittle . SR . F
Matt Freeman . SR . F
Brady Manek . JR . F
Kam McGusty . SR . G
Hannes Polla . JR . C
Jordan Shepherd . SR . G
Jamal Bieniemy . SO . G
Kur Kuath . SR . F
De'Vion Harmon . FR . G
?
?
?
?

We would add 3-4 unknowns to that list to fill out the roster, then replace Doolittle, Freeman, McGusty, Shepherd and Kuath with the next recruiting class. By the time the next 2 seasons are over, only Manek, Polla, Bieniemy and Harmon will be left, along with whoever is added to the roster, so the opportunity to get better relatively soon exists, because the roster will naturally turnover the next 2 years with heavy graduation.