In answer to the Facebook stalking.....

[IntenseDefense]

Thanks for the perspective and insight, jmizzy. I enjoy reading your posts any time I can find them.

Some of the same rationale used in this instance can also be used for people who come from poor white rural areas. Racism, horrible grammar, and aversion to academics run rampant in these corners of our country as well.

We just don't have a label such as "ebonics" to help explain it away.

 

[DSMok1]

Excellent post, jmizzy, a subject that many here did not consider.

 

[MNsooner]

Right...this is what causes stereotypes...Just like women who walk through a parking garage unattended cause rapes...

I kind of agree with what you are getting at, but think that is a bit tasteless. Someone who is raped has literally no choice. I think you are saying is that it is unfair to blame the subject of a stereotype for the negativity associated with it. In other words, it is utterly unfair to say tmg is at fault when people negatively generalize about an entire group of people. Which I agree with.

EDIT: thanks jimmy for the great post

 

[MNsooner]

Good try! More like white kids that think it' funny to put a confederate flag on their truck. Don't try so hard to twist my words next time. Also, if he is not able to make a living with professional ball, he will most likely have to turn to a life of crime to survive. It's called maturity, he needs to start showing some.

Huh? Why do you think this? I know he has had plans to open a clothing company. If that doesn't work I have no doubt he can find a way to make a living. Why would you assume he would turn to crime? I don't think we should accuse people of being criminals without any basis.

 

[MichSooner]

Interesting points, but here is the deal. If TMG wants to make it in life he is going to have to start singing to a different audience than the one he seems entrenched with now. Whether it is in the NBA, in Europe, in Iowa City, or Timbuktu, he is going to have to outgrow his fascination with what he is familiar with. That doesn't mean he is a sell out or worse, that means he is actually maturing and moving forward with his life....

 

[boksooner]

Good try! More like white kids that think it' funny to put a confederate flag on their truck. Don't try so hard to twist my words next time. Also, if he is not able to make a living with professional ball, he will most likely have to turn to a life of crime to survive. It's called maturity, he needs to start showing some.

Good try! More like white kids that think it' funny to put a confederate flag on their truck. Don't try so hard to twist my words next time. Also, if he is not able to make a living with professional ball, he will most likely have to turn to a life of crime to survive. It's called maturity, he needs to start showing some.

Is there an echo in here?

 

[MNsooner]

Is there an echo in here?

Yankee posted the same thing twice. I deleted the second one in case anyone is curious about what bok's post means.

 

[elmocarp]

Good try! More like white kids that think it' funny to put a confederate flag on their truck. Don't try so hard to twist my words next time. Also, if he is not able to make a living with professional ball, he will most likely have to turn to a life of crime to survive. It's called maturity, he needs to start showing some.

Don't forget rapping...he could be a rapper...

Unbelievable...talk about making my point for me...

 

[razmataz]

Interesting points, but here is the deal. If TMG wants to make it in life he is going to have to start singing to a different audience than the one he seems entrenched with now. Whether it is in the NBA, in Europe, in Iowa City, or Timbuktu, he is going to have to outgrow his fascination with what he is familiar with. That doesn't mean he is a sell out or worse, that means he is actually maturing and moving forward with his life....

To US he wouldn't be a 'sell out', but to his friends he might/would be considered one. I agree it would be maturing and moving forward, but the opportunities he has because of his athletic ability is not afforded to all of his friends and he still feels a connection to them. There are things called guilt and comfort zones that keep kids like TMG connected with their friends. Guilt because he CAN move forward and comfort zones because it's all he's known.

 

[Shooterms]

I probably need to get a life, but I decided to take a break from some paperwork, and search some MySpace/Facebook pages of young people that I know personally. Some of these kids are in HS, others are in college. Here is a sampling of some of the posts that I found. All of these kids are inner city kids, many with gang affiliations.

1) WELL,. bishesz...im doin nuthn talkin tu my brother he isz so dam funiie tu meh lol ilub.

2) Hey wahd uhp myspacers.!! Dha name be (name removed) as yu kno nd ima tell ya wahd ya need tu kno boutt meh.....First of all: family comes first in annii situation wahds so ever. And when yu fuq wid my fam yu fuq wid meh. && i will fight so yeah .! lol Im dha badddset bish yu will eva meet hun{so lames take notes) Budd i have three best frends (fha now) (names removed)....I have the best boyfriend ever.!!! TWO WORDS YU CAN NOT CALL ME:***** r Hoe.becuz dhen ima have tu tdau aka tear.dhat.ass.uhp.!! I like tu shop nd hang out wid dha booskies && dha boo......Second of all:friends come second && like i sed yu fuq wid dha booskies yu likely ta ghet cha asz tone uhp.!! I love them && wen yu call dhem sututhm yu call meh dha same.!! Fuq wid a bish like meh nd yu will luv meh forever.....Last of all: I gotsz tu sho luv tu my hatersz cuz dhey make meh wahd iam now. Idont do lames so ha lol but yall hatersz keep uhp watcha doin b-cuz ima star becuz of yal hahahaha -im out dhis ish.❤ ❤-BAhd BiSH❤


The 1st 2 posts are by a 15 yr old girl who I know can spell and type correctly. She recently joined a gang, though she is yet to admit that to any adults.

3) hellyeah *****es be extrad out with tht shyt loco its halling tho cuzz.

4)lOl iKN0 DAtS GNE BE MY B.D.! J/p hE kN0 WUtS Up tH0 WEN HE GEt 0Ut iMA SH0W HiM! HAVE U tlKD t0 HEM!

5) fucc da consequences ill have u niggas jumpin fences.


3, 4, 5 are by a 19 yr old female, college student, and her exchanges with a 17 yr old HS senior. All are decent students.
I could go on and on, but the point is made.... I think.

Great stuff, as always, J.

Lots of people wear boots and hats in Oklahoma. Very few of them actually ride horses and work cattle. If you aren't from around here, you'd think they were all cowboys.

 

[cfin5256]

Great post jmizzy. Definitely gives some perspective.

 

[gracefor24]

Great stuff, as always, J.

Lots of people wear boots and hats in Oklahoma. Very few of them actually ride horses and work cattle. If you aren't from around here, you'd think they were all cowboys.

Not to mention if you go to some of the more hillbilly places in America (Eastern Kentucky) you'd swear they were speaking a different language too.

I work these kids on a weekly basis and it is a struggle. We try to make sure they can draw the line between the way they talk with their homies and the way they conduct themselves at school and in public. You have to be able to operate in both worlds to be successful. Both of the Police Officers I work with are black and are as intelligent and articulate as they come but can also switch it on and talk in a way that our kids understand.

The problem is the influences in these kid's lives and many times even at their schools don't have these dual skills. If you go to Douglass and listen to the way some of their employees or coaches talk it's no better/different than the students.

It's funny because I grew up playing ball and spent most of my childhood best friends with Mexican and black kids so I am usually the interpreter for my white, suburban friends.

I don't think most people (especially in OKC) have any clue what is happening in our city or how deeply connected these kids are to the streets, hoods, gangs they grow up around.

We had a kid come in this week who is 14 years old. He is Mexican and part of GBC (Gran Barrio Central). He already has possession of CDS, possession of firearm, discharge of firearm, home invasion, kidnapping charges and those are just the felonies. He is trying to get out of the gang but he lives in the opposing gangs neighborhood and they are out to kill him. He has been in Berry House for months at a time and not in school consistently since 6th grade. The rival gang did a drive by on him while he was doing community service at a church!!

So, you think that kid is going to change the way he speaks overnight when that's all he's ever known and it's his own family who jumped him into the gang at 8 years old?

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Alot of great points and perspectives guys. Again, I was not making excuses for TMG or anyone else, I was just trying to get some to see that there are kids who only know one way of living/existing, and the challenge of anyone who tries to work with them is getting them to understand the detriment their lifestyle creates. Like Grace pointed out, you are often battling a long family history, and an engrained mindset that the young people have been taught to have. It really is hard to counteract.....

It would be alot easier and more attainable if people who see the problem, and those who can counter the problem, would step up and try to counteract the problem. I agree 100% w/ the posters who pointed out similar problems with poor kids who grow up in rural areas,etc. Poverty and ignorance go hand in hand, IMO. The common denominator is usually poor family structure, lack of resources, and lack of positive influences. Those negatives supercede all racial, ethnic, and color lines. It may come out in different forms, but it is the same lack that breeds the negativity.

I hope that TMG makes it in life. I hope that he meets positive people who can see beyond potential money dreams and high roller lifestyles. I pray that someone will be able to help him take advantage of his opportunities, and help him nake the correct decisions from here forward. I fear that he will become another playground legend...... Hope that I am wrong.

Very good points being made by alot of posters in this thread!!

 

[ADCS]

I kind of agree with what you are getting at, but think that is a bit tasteless. Someone who is raped has literally no choice.

Someone who had to grow up in the hood had no choice either.

 

[Sooner Quick]

In TMG's case he is already into his own clothing company so that tells me he has what it takes to succeed. Some kids just do not like school, nothing wrong with that. Some really great minds never goto college. Maybe a life in Europe for a few years is what he needs to get him focused on things like maturing all while he is making good money doing what he knows how to do!

Thanks for the posts JMiz and you too Grace.

 

[stoops4pres]

In TMG's case he is already into his own clothing company so that tells me he has what it takes to succeed. Some kids just do not like school, nothing wrong with that. Some really great minds never goto college. Maybe a life in Europe for a few years is what he needs to get him focused on things like maturing all while he is making good money doing what he knows how to do!

+1

Great points sooner quick and jmizzy.

 

[gspence]

Great points Jmizzy and I had said some similar things to an OSU friend of mine in defense of TMG... to an extent. However I think the big issue in all of this is Capel's lack of ability to make TMG realize the opportunity he had at OU to be more than a gang banger who came to college for one year and went and played basketball.

Maybe TMG came to OU because Capel was the only coach who could recite Jay-Z lyrics or maybe because he was a fan of Scarface or UGK or something. But it was Capel's job to keep this kid on campus for 4 years and make him realize the opportunity he has at OU to educate himself on and off the court.

Capel failed, not TMG.

 

[StatGeek]

Attempting to understand this mindset is fine but rationalizing and accepting this perspective just enables this non-sense to persist. I personally went to a school that had a total of 3 white students. I have never met my father, my mother went to prison for 2 years (drug charges) while I was in high school. I have been shot at, had a gun pressed against my head and have been on the wrong end of a knife for reasons that make no sense. The average ACT score at my high school the year I graduated was a 16. When my mother was incarcerated I was homeless for a while, but I always knew right from wrong, appropriate from inappropriate and the difference between a sellout and an idiot. Despite these factors I graduated HS on time, worked my way through college (OU) without the aid of student loans. I worked two jobs and went to school full time. I worked at Fastlanes on Main St. during the day and washed the OU wrestling teams clothes at night (for minimum wage). I currently have a really good job with one of the largest company's in the world, a marriage going on 8 years and a 1yr old son. IMO the "sellouts" are those who allow/enable ignorance to run rampant in the community I grew up in, not those of us who used a little common sense, and hard work to improve our situation. This post is not a judgment on TMG, but it is a warning that trying to understand the mindset TMG seems to have is fine, but accepting it is dangerous and a disservice to us all.

Sorry for the rant but "product of your environment" ideology is a hot topic for me.

 

[playmakr]

Attempting to understand this mindset is fine but rationalizing and accepting this perspective just enables this non-sense to persist. I personally went to a school that had a total of 3 white students. I have never met my father, my mother went to prison for 2 years (drug charges) while I was in high school. I have been shot at, had a gun pressed against my head and have been on the wrong end of a knife for reasons that make no sense. The average ACT score at my high school the year I graduated was a 16. When my mother was incarcerated I was homeless for a while, but I always knew right from wrong, appropriate from inappropriate and the difference between a sellout and an idiot. Despite these factors I graduated HS on time, worked my way through college (OU) without the aid of student loans. I worked two jobs and went to school full time. I worked at Fastlanes on Main St. during the day and washed the OU wrestling teams clothes at night (for minimum wage). I currently have a really good job with one of the largest company's in the world, a marriage going on 8 years and a 1yr old son. IMO the "sellouts" are those who allow/enable ignorance to run rampant in the community I grew up in, not those of us who used a little common sense, and hard work to improve our situation. This post is not a judgment on TMG, but it is a warning that trying to understand the mindset TMG seems to have is fine, but accepting it is dangerous and a disservice to us all.

Sorry for the rant but "product of your environment" ideology is a hot topic for me.

We have a lot in common, Statgeek.

 

[AdaSooner]

Great points Jmizzy and I had said some similar things to an OSU friend of mine in defense of TMG... to an extent. However I think the big issue in all of this is Capel's lack of ability to make TMG realize the opportunity he had at OU to be more than a gang banger who came to college for one year and went and played basketball.

Maybe TMG came to OU because Capel was the only coach who could recite Jay-Z lyrics or maybe because he was a fan of Scarface or UGK or something. But it was Capel's job to keep this kid on campus for 4 years and make him realize the opportunity he has at OU to educate himself on and off the court.

Capel failed, not TMG.

gspence, I understand what you're saying and agree for the most part. But to suggest that "Capel failed, not TMG" is dead wrong. That's like saying my parents were to blame because I chose to party and drink a lot when I was young. Trust me, that is not what I was taught at home. It nearly killed my parents when I decided to "sew my oats" in my late teens and early twenties.

The point is, these kids are responsible for their actions, too. You can't lay all of it on their parents, teachers or coaches. When the time comes to leave that protective nest, they had better be prepared to deal with everything that lies ahead, by working hard and learning some of life's lessons from the people who care about them.

Thank God I never forgot what my parents taught me, so I turned out okay. Well, actually some might argue with me about that.