In answer to the Facebook stalking.....

Attempting to understand this mindset is fine but rationalizing and accepting this perspective just enables this non-sense to persist. I personally went to a school that had a total of 3 white students. I have never met my father, my mother went to prison for 2 years (drug charges) while I was in high school. I have been shot at, had a gun pressed against my head and have been on the wrong end of a knife for reasons that make no sense. The average ACT score at my high school the year I graduated was a 16. When my mother was incarcerated I was homeless for a while, but I always knew right from wrong, appropriate from inappropriate and the difference between a sellout and an idiot. Despite these factors I graduated HS on time, worked my way through college (OU) without the aid of student loans. I worked two jobs and went to school full time. I worked at Fastlanes on Main St. during the day and washed the OU wrestling teams clothes at night (for minimum wage). I currently have a really good job with one of the largest company's in the world, a marriage going on 8 years and a 1yr old son. IMO the "sellouts" are those who allow/enable ignorance to run rampant in the community I grew up in, not those of us who used a little common sense, and hard work to improve our situation. This post is not a judgment on TMG, but it is a warning that trying to understand the mindset TMG seems to have is fine, but accepting it is dangerous and a disservice to us all.

Sorry for the rant but "product of your environment" ideology is a hot topic for me.

Unfortunately your story is the exception. The hopeful thing is it shows it CAN happen. We are all products of our environments in one way or another but it doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

At some point in your life you have to take responsibility for who and what you are. TMG will find that out right quickly.
 
gspence, I understand what you're saying and agree for the most part. But to suggest that "Capel failed, not TMG" is dead wrong. That's like saying my parents were to blame because I chose to party and drink a lot when I was young. Trust me, that is not what I was taught at home. It nearly killed my parents when I decided to "sew my oats" in my late teens and early twenties.

The point is, these kids are responsible for their actions, too. You can't lay all of it on their parents, teachers or coaches. When the time comes to leave that protective nest, they had better be prepared to deal with everything that lies ahead, by working hard and learning some of life's lessons from the people who care about them.

Thank God I never forgot what my parents taught me, so I turned out okay. Well, actually some might argue with me about that. ;)

I hear ya ada, and I probably shouldn't have worded it that way because I was in NO way indicating that TMG doesn't have any blame in this. I am however saying that Capel deserves a lot. Personally I feel if we are re-shaping the roster and cleaning house like we are, then we should just go after one of these coaches from a mid major that's made noise in the tourney and start over. Capel's had 4 years, we shouldn't be re-starting in his 5th when he has missed the tourney and NIT twice.

He failed because he is supposed to be this players coach who can relate to the players, but he recruited a bunch of guys who don't even really want to play college basketball, at least the way you need to in order to win, and apparently class is not important to some of them either. He's missed in so many recruits.

Let's take a look at his recruiting classes so far, not counting the current one.

2009.
Tiny, TMG, Fitz, Pledger, and Hardrick.

TMG- Showed great promise and ability but character issues and didn't want to goto class. Best pure offensive PG at OU since Mookie but is GONE after one year.

Tiny- Again also showed promise but can't play a lick of defense, is amazing lazy on the court half the time, has a bad attitude on the court most of the time and argues with teammates and also doesn't want to goto class. Took $3000 from a "Financial advisor" and is also likely GONE after one year.

Fitz- Another guy with some talent, seemed to be a better character kid from all reports yet celebrated the biggest win of the season by shoplifting from Dillards. Should be back but jury is still out on if he learned from his incident and if he will get in better shape to reach potential.

Pledger- See above, plus needs to get quicker and find his consistency on his shot again. I thought this kid was going to be the best shooter we've had since Hollis at the beginning of the year, then he just lost it at times.

Hardrick- Needs to transfer, don't offer scholarships to kids in 9th grade unless they are a LeBron James type talent, too much can happen. He's a low major D-1 player at best.

2008

Willie Warren- Great freshmen year, but still some character issues. So much promise. I'd still like to see him come back and redeem himself. He seemed to always say the right things so I think his heart is in the right place, but this team lacked the leadership and chemistry from top to bottom to allow him to have a better year. He is still at fault as well though. Hopefully he will come back to redeem himself but I doubt it.

Ray Willis- Transferring. On paper he seemed like a solid recruit but I have NEVER been impressed with his game. There are so many local kids who would have loved to play at OU who would put in the work and want to be here that are as worthy of a scholarship as he was.

Juan Patillo- Transferred. Awesomely athletic and played some great games for us last year, but had problems from the get go and typically you like to use scholarships on players who play more than 20 career games for you.

Orlando Allen- 2 years and has given us nothing but some positive bench cheering and a few rebounds. Another guy that did nothing in JUCO to prove he deserved a scholarship to a place like OU. I know some JUCO coaches who thought this was a terrible offer for OU from the beginning.

Kyle Cannon- Another failed recruit. We signed 2 guys who didn't even play their soph years in JUCO. At least Cannon had a good Freshmen year but never showed anything once he got on campus. I mean how much did we even see some of these guys? It just seems like we've taken kids because we put all our eggs in one basket and had to scramble for back ups on guys like this.

2007

Blake Griffin- The one big thing Capel has done right in his tenure at OU and the reason he still has a job. If Taylor transfers then we never get Blake. Blake meant so much to building the program back after losing the Reynolds/James class and now all that Blake did is dead. He had us on the map last year and now it's not even ESPN worthy news that we have all these problems. Hopefully Blake has a great career in the NBA and helps us out in the future.

Tony Neysmith- Transferred. Similar to Willis, on paper a guy who looked worthy of a scholarship, but got to campus and never amounted to anything. Can't shoot a lick and never got on the court enough to show if he could offer anything else.

Cade Davis- The 2nd best recruit in the Capel era behind Blake and that's not a good thing. I say 2nd best unless WW comes back. Cade is the type of kid we NEED more of. I am not saying don't recruit nationally but give a better look at some of these Oklahoma kids that want to be Sooners and can play.

Chris Early- Never even suited out, gone before we had a chance to forget him. Wasted ship

2006- Part Sampson, part Capel, had odds stacked against him but only Tony Crocker stayed all 4 years.

Tony Crocker- Guess I should say he is slightly ahead of Cade as Capel's 2nd best recruit, even though he was originally signed by Sampson. Crock was a nice player for us in the 2 Blake years.

Bobby Maze- Could have been a good one, don't understand why Bruce Pearl can coach him but Capel had to let him go. I thought he's supposed to be able to coach these kinds of kids? Guess not.

Keith Clark- Another guy who wanted no part of the class room, could have been BIG TIME if he had the right coach.

So there you have it, I mean the failure rate is down right scary. Yes I know Sampson had transfers as well and what not, but he also won from the day he stepped on campus and didn't stop winning. Say what you want about him, but you can't even talk about the two coaches in the same sentence right now.

I really want Jeff Capel to succeed at OU, I just don't think it's going to happen.
 
A double thumbs up to you on that post, gspence! Now, we're on the same page. :woot
 
Unfortunately your story is the exception. The hopeful thing is it shows it CAN happen. We are all products of our environments in one way or another but it doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

At some point in your life you have to take responsibility for who and what you are. TMG will find that out right quickly.
Yea he is definitely the exception, as am I. I had a lot of help though, and most people in that situation don't get any. (government handouts aside) I was adopted a very late age for adoption, and I don't know if I would be an exception right now if not for that.

Good post, gspence. You laid it out perfectly for us to see. I got depressed reading that, and was going to start arguing with you, but realized there wasn't much of a rebuttal. Obviously I hope you're wrong about Capel, but I don't have a lot of fact to rebuke your post.
 
Thanks ada and play. Ada knows me a little from back on the old boards and he knows I don't want to be negative about OU basketball. Yes I am a Sampson guy, and have defended him, but that doesn't mean I don't want Capel to succeed. I do, and still do. I think he is obviously going to get at least another year but I just know what I have seen through four years and besides Blake, Cade and Crock man there is just not much to like about the players Jeff Capel has signed.

I see no identity with this program and the fact that we are basically starting over in year five is so depressing to me and I am sure all big OU basketball fans. I didn't come around here and post much at all this year because for one thing I coach 4 teams and am really busy, but I just didn't want to get involved in talking about how bad the team was playing and what not. I finally decided to post some stuff now because it's just so frustrating to see all this happen.

I hadn't seen anyone else really break down every recruiting class and show just how amazing all the turn over has been so I decided to do it myself and man it's not good.

The fact that After 5 years Cade Davis and Tony Crocker are going to have been the only two players to play 4 years and graduate under Capel is not good. On top of that Crock wasn't even a guy Capel signed, he just was lucky to keep him around because Tony always wanted to be a Sooner.

Anyway, I hope people don't think I want to argue about all this, I don't, I just wanted to post that because theres not much you can argue with. This program is in bad shape and it's going to be very hard for Capel to correct it next year. We shall see.
 
Excellent posts made by almost all. We do need to realize there are demographic differences. How though , do we allow some differences in what is expected from these kids. You are either allowed mistakes or you are not. You learn from these mistakes or you do not. I just get the feeling, and I hope I am wrong, that TMG will not learn because of his background. Therefore , I guess I do judge a little based on where you are from. I do not mean location.

I wish Tommy nothing but the best. The point spence made about Maze is fascinating. I have thought the very same thing. Jeff is really struggling in every aspect of coaching right now. So, in light of all these things, the future looks a little bleak to me.
 
Anyway, I hope people don't think I want to argue about all this, I don't, I just wanted to post that because theres not much you can argue with. This program is in bad shape and it's going to be very hard for Capel to correct it next year. We shall see.

This is how I feel too. There's no doubt that what you've posted about in this thread is very concerning.
 
Now I'm bummed. Great posts gspence; not alot I can argue with. That's a stark picture but realistic. I'm just hoping Capel is serious about changing the recruiting philosophy to look more for the blue collar guys.
 
Enjoying all of the excellent points being made in this thread. It is always good to get different perspectives. I have been given alot to think about by some excellent posts in this thread. Just wanted to add that.:clap:woot
 
Painful to read, hard to argue with. I sure hope he can pull this out somehow. I really want to see this guy succeed, because he really seems like such a stand up guy. However, I want to see my school succeed more than anything. I hate even being in a situation where that has to be thought or said. We gotta up the sunshine somehow - this can't be healthy, can it?
 
Thanks, I probably should have given that response it's own thread since it's kind of a separate subject. Mods should I do that, or you? Talking about the recruiting break down.
 
Jeff is probably dealing with a culture almost as foreign to him as it is to us. Do any of his assistant coaches have any inner-city background? If not, maybe he should hire one.
 
Jeff is probably dealing with a culture almost as foreign to him as it is to us. Do any of his assistant coaches have any inner-city background? If not, maybe he should hire one.

Coach O is from Detroit.
 
Back
Top