Is Hield the best young guard since Hollis Price?

[WTSooner]

Speaking of J.R. Raymond, did he redshirt as a freshman, or was he not eligible for some reason? I don't recall.

What Soonerstats.com is listing as his first season playing, and calling his "sophmore" season, was 2000. Raymond was pretty darn good that year, averaging 13.4 ppg, while shooting a robust 41.3% from three. 3.3 rebounds per game from the pg spot weren't bad either. Always liked his game.

 

[garyeb2]

Lol at his ankle being just an excuse. Ww was explosive as a freshman. I remember at the end of his sophomore year thinking that he didn't dunk all season

Your missing the point. Capel's legacy is that he brought in a bunch of 5 stars that he couldn't win with. It wasn't all about Capel's X's and O's ability. He brought in flawed 5 stars.

Those flaws are probably how he got them in the 1st place insted of some baketball school. You don't have any secret knowledge. Everyone knows that as a freshman he was a good shooter and had about the quickest 1st step in basketball.

Willie had some special talents. He knew it. That was going to be his contribution. And that should be enough. And that is the problem with Willie Warren and all those like him.

Those kind are fools gold. You can not build a team around them. The smart confident coach's flush them out a soon as they identify them.

The willing to learn, notch below, hard working talent like Heild will take a team further than the WW's, TG's, and TMG's of the world.

 

[MI Sooner]

Willie Warren was on a team that was way better than this year's team, and played very well on that team in Griffin's nearly two game absence. I don't know how you can't win with guys like Willie Warren when we did win with Willie Warren.

Maybe he didn't live up to his potential, but just because he didn't score 18 ppg as a sophomore doesn't mean his 14 ppg (and the way he got them) as a freshman weren't better than any other freshman guard in a long time.

 

[bgrch1350]

Your missing the point. Capel's legacy is that he brought in a bunch of 5 stars that he couldn't win with. It wasn't all about Capel's X's and O's ability. He brought in flawed 5 stars.

Those flaws are probably how he got them in the 1st place insted of some baketball school. You don't have any secret knowledge. Everyone knows that as a freshman he was a good shooter and had about the quickest 1st step in basketball.

Willie had some special talents. He knew it. That was going to be his contribution. And that should be enough. And that is the problem with Willie Warren and all those like him.

Those kind are fools gold. You can not build a team around them. The smart confident coach's flush them out a soon as they identify them.

The willing to learn, notch below, hard working talent like Heild will take a team further than the WW's, TG's, and TMG's of the world.

Whatever...Willie Warren would be starting from day one here...he would be starting over Pledger, Cousins, Hield, and Hornbeak. He would be the 2nd best player on this team.

Capel brought in Flawed 5 stars??? who doesn't??? The problem is, you think that 5 star players should be instant all-stars as Freshmen, and most of them aren't. TMG and Gallon fit into that. So does players that KU, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, MSU, etc...get every year. just look up those teams.

 

[garyeb2]

Whatever...Willie Warren would be starting from day one here...he would be starting over Pledger, Cousins, Hield, and Hornbeak. He would be the 2nd best player on this team.

Capel brought in Flawed 5 stars??? who doesn't??? The problem is, you think that 5 star players should be instant all-stars as Freshmen, and most of them aren't. TMG and Gallon fit into that. So does players that KU, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, MSU, etc...get every year. just look up those teams.

I don't make the assumption that 5 stars should be anything. Remember, I'm the guy that thinks recruit rankings have very little value.

I think that you are making the assumption that Kruger would recruit a Willie Warren type or would keep one around along enough to start. No evidence of that exist.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Anything is possible, but this is highly unlikely. Hollis joined the team that had lost 4 starters from the previous year, so there were plenty of opportunities for him to put up Willie Warren-type numbers as a freshman. Hollis was a good/solid player his first two years in the program. Willie was an "impact" player right out of the gate. When Blake went couldn't go in the Kansas game, it was Warren who kept it close with a barrage of 3-point shots, etc. It was the kind of game you just don't see from many freshmen at any school.

I've been following OU basketball for more than 35 years now. The only OU freshman guard who I would rate above him was Tim McCallister. I agree with those who are saying Warren's sophomore year is causing many to have a revisionist history mentality with Warren as a freshman. He did show those selfish tendencies at times as a sophomore, no doubt. His problems were definitely more than just injury-related. If they weren't, he'd be on an NBA roster right about now...but I will never minimize his accomplishments as a freshman.

willie was injured and had mono most of his soph year ... and he was on a team with real cancers ... TMG and to a lesser extent tiny with a coach that was not equipped to handle those types of players ..

i feel bad for WW that he didn't leave when blake did .. we would have been a top 15 pick .. (maybe top 6)

 

[BoulderSooner]

Whatever...Willie Warren would be starting from day one here...he would be starting over Pledger, Cousins, Hield, and Hornbeak. He would be the 2nd best player on this team.

Capel brought in Flawed 5 stars??? who doesn't??? The problem is, you think that 5 star players should be instant all-stars as Freshmen, and most of them aren't. TMG and Gallon fit into that. So does players that KU, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, MSU, etc...get every year. just look up those teams.

WW was a hard worker ... and he would be the best player on this team ..

 

[Big Old Booger]

Your missing the point. Capel's legacy is that he brought in a bunch of 5 stars that he couldn't win with. It wasn't all about Capel's X's and O's ability. He brought in flawed 5 stars.

Those flaws are probably how he got them in the 1st place insted of some baketball school. You don't have any secret knowledge. Everyone knows that as a freshman he was a good shooter and had about the quickest 1st step in basketball.

Willie had some special talents. He knew it. That was going to be his contribution. And that should be enough. And that is the problem with Willie Warren and all those like him.

Those kind are fools gold. You can not build a team around them. The smart confident coach's flush them out a soon as they identify them.

The willing to learn, notch below, hard working talent like Heild will take a team further than the WW's, TG's, and TMG's of the world.

:clap

I agree with this almost 100%.

WW had talent, no doubt about that but he was a headcase. We knew it when he signed and we hoped he would stay here long enough to make the bet (signing him to a scholarship) payoff. Not many high level programs recruited him because he was a headcase.

WW wouldn't have come here if OU had either KS or LK and that is not only because he wouldn't want to play for them but they wouldn't have recruited him. Let me step back, they may have recruited him but would have told him what was expected and what happens when the expectations aren't met. He would have never agreed with it.

WW, TMG, Tiny, and 90% of the other JC recruits had issues. That's why most of them didn't stick. Tiny probably had the least issues, but we paid him to come here.

 

[NickZepp]

At an Oklahoma you need to build guys with boarderline top 100 guys. Then if you get good enough like Kelvin did you can start getting top recruits too.

 

[WTSooner]

At an Oklahoma you need to build guys with boarderline top 100 guys. Then if you get good enough like Kelvin did you can start getting top recruits too.

Yes and no.

Kelvin had several guys that weren't ranked high, but that played like top 25 prospects. Brewer. Najera. Price. Ace. All studs, none ranked in the top 50 if I remember correctly. He found JUCO's, and diamonds in the rough that when put into his system, performed liked stars.

 

[WTSooner]

All you need to know about WW is that as highly as he was ranked, he sure didn't have a lot of the top programs beating down his door recruiting him. And the ones that were, he was their backup option.

 

[bocabull]

Didn't I hear Hield had a late Kansas offer? Yes or no?

 

[garyeb2]

Didn't I hear Hield had a late Kansas offer? Yes or no?

All that I can remember is that his coach said " I was surprised OU got him. I thought all along that he would end up at Kansas."

 

[jerry]

All you need to know about WW is that as highly as he was ranked, he sure didn't have a lot of the top programs beating down his door recruiting him. And the ones that were, he was their backup option.

Character, Character, Character or in his case lack of.

 

[WTSooner]

Character, Character, Character or in his case lack of.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[SoonerMatt27]

Character, Character, Character or in his case lack of.

That's not always the case when bigger programs recruit. Just look at DeMarcus Cousins. He is 10 times the headcase that WW is, but then again Cousins is also 10 times as talented. Then again it was Calipari who signed him..

 

[garyeb2]

That's not always the case when bigger programs recruit. Just look at DeMarcus Cousins. He is 10 times the headcase that WW is, but then again Cousins is also 10 times as talented. Then again it was Calipari who signed him..

People can say anything bad about Calapari that they want too. I'll buy in. But, the guy can blend big egos into a good team.

 

[jerry]

That's not always the case when bigger programs recruit. Just look at DeMarcus Cousins. He is 10 times the headcase that WW is, but then again Cousins is also 10 times as talented. Then again it was Calipari who signed him..

Calipari has demonstrated he can handle the bad characters. Capel could not handle it.

 

[bgrch1350]

I don't make the assumption that 5 stars should be anything. Remember, I'm the guy that thinks recruit rankings have very little value.

I think that you are making the assumption that Kruger would recruit a Willie Warren type or would keep one around along enough to start. No evidence of that exist.

Who's the most recent person to make it to the Elite 8 in the NCAA tournament, Kruger or WW? Answer: Willie Warren.

Who's won more games in the NCAA tournament since 2008? Again, Willie Warren.

If Kruger doesn't want a guy to recruit a player that is better than every player on his team...thats up to him.

 

[garyeb2]

Who's the most recent person to make it to the Elite 8 in the NCAA tournament, Kruger or WW? Answer: Willie Warren.

Who's won more games in the NCAA tournament since 2008? Again, Willie Warren.

If Kruger doesn't want a guy to recruit a player that is better than every player on his team...thats up to him.

Are you as sure about all this as you were of Fitz staring for kansas?