Is OU better than the team projected 10th?

[thebigabd]

Nebraska vs. OU on paper....

I would say they have the advantage at PG, PF, C, and coaching. Eshaunte Jones and Pledger are similar. OU has the advantage at SF.

PG: Lance Jeter (6'3'' 220-Senior)
-Big 12 All-Newcomer honors from the league's sportswriters following his junior campaign. Jeter paced the Huskers with 134 assists on the season, ranking eighth in the conference with 4.1 assists per game for the season. He was also seventh with a 1.9 assist-to-turnover ratio. Along with setting up his teammates, Jeter averaged 7.5 points and 3.8 rebounds per game.

Backup: Kamyron Brown (Transfer from Oregon, could start)

SG: Eshaunte Jones (6'4'' 200-Soph)
-Averaged 16.9 minutes per contest in his first extended college action. Jones avearged 6.0 pionts and 1.6 rebounds per game while adding 1.0 assist per contest. Jones drained 43.5 percent from 3-point range. His average was also the second-highest ever by a Husker freshman. On the year, he hit 40 3-pointers to rank second on the team while his total was the fifth-highest mark in the Nebraska freshman record book.

Backup: Brandon Richardson (averaged 9 ppg last year)

SG: Caleb Walker (6'4'' 205-Junior)
-NJCAA All-America first team in 2010. Jayhawk West Conference Player of the Year and Region VI Player of the Year. Walker averaged 16.4 points and 8.0 rebounds per game while hitting better than 53 percent from the field. He also hit nearly 38 percent from 3-point range and better than 71 percent at the charity stripe while ranking second on the squad in assists and steals. In conference games, Walker ranked third in the league in scoring (16.8 ppg) and led the Jayhawk West in rebounding (9.7 rpg).

Backup: Toney Mccray (Averaged 6 ppg last year)

PF: Christian Standhardinger (6'9'' 215-Soph)
-Standhardinger averaged 8.1 points and 3.8 rebounds per game while hitting 40.9 percent from the field and 37.5 percent from long range. He also was one of the team's top free throw shooters, hitting 78.3 percent from the line while getting to the line more times than any Husker since the start of league play.

Backup: Brandon Ubel (averaged 4.4 and 2 last year)

C: Brian Diaz (6'11'' 245-Soph)
-Ranked in the Nebraska freshman top 10 for field goals (4th, 133), points scored (8th, 291) and scoring average (10th, 8.82).. Nebraska freshman record for blocks (41 in 2010)..averaged 8.8 points, 4.0 rebounds and 1.2 blocked shots per game.

Backup: Chris Niemann (projected starter for 2 years at center but has blown out both knees).

 

[NickZepp]

I think OU's good enough to be 5th or 6th in the Big 12 so yes.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

PG - Who knows.

Davis > Jones

Clark > Walker

PF = Who knows

C= Close.

Coaching = Huge advantage OU.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Jeff Capel:

The Sooners posted a 23-12 record in 2007-08 (a seven-win improvement over the previous year) and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament. They followed with a 30-6 mark the program's first Elite Eight showing since 2003. The 30-win season was just the sixth ever for the school. Capel's squad, led by national player of the year Blake Griffin, bolted to a 25-1 start and reach the No. 2 spot in the national rankings -- the program's highest perch in 19 seasons.
Capel's on-court success at Oklahoma should come as no surprise based on his performance at VCU, where he recorded a 79-41 (.658) overall record and a 50-22 (.694) mark in Colonial Athletic Association play. His Rams boasted a 47-11 overall home record for a staunch .811 winning percentage. In 2003-04, VCU's CAA Tournament championship game victory over George Mason catapulted the Rams to the NCAA Tournament for the first time since 1996. VCU lost in the first round to Wake Forest, but not before putting a major scare into Chris Paul's fourth-seeded Demon Deacons, 79-78. Capel's 2004-05 squad, which finished 19-13, competed in the National Invitation Tournament, marking just the third time in VCU history that it made consecutive postseason appearances.
Capel has served two coaching stints with USA Basketball, each one resulting in a gold medal. This past July as head coach, he directed the USA to a 5-0 record in the FIBA America's U18 Championship in San Antonio, Texas. After winning its first four games by an average margin of 50 points, Capel's squad posted an 81-78 come-from-behind win over Brazil in the title game. In August 2005, Capel served as an assistant coach on the USA Men's World University Games Team that finished 8-0 in Turkey.

 

[thebigabd]

PG - Who knows.

Davis > Jones

Clark > Walker

PF = Who knows

C= Close.

Coaching = Huge advantage OU.

Who knows on PF? They are better, clearly.
Who knows on PG? They are better, clearly.

How is center close? They have a good player in Diaz, a 6'10'' juco AA in Almeida, and a 6'11'' german guy who was supposed to be the starter last year. They have 3 legit centers. OU doesnt even have one, lol.

I know you are trying to be an OU homer, but come on, lets be fair.

 

[thebigabd]

I think OU's good enough to be 5th or 6th in the Big 12 so yes.

You think this OU team is good enough to finish one spot out of a bye in the Big 12 tournament?

Post wins/losses from conference so I can see this. Also, I will bet you a few thousand on that if you are interested.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Who knows on PF? They are better, clearly.
Who knows on PG? They are better, clearly.

How is center close? They have a good player in Diaz, a 6'10'' juco AA in Almeida, and a 6'11'' german guy who was supposed to be the starter last year. They have 3 legit centers. OU doesnt even have one, lol.

I know you are trying to be an OU homer, but come on, lets be fair.

They are picked ONE SPOT ahead of OU for TENTH, and yet you say they are "clearly" better than OU at 3 of 5 positions on the floor. How many times has NU finished in the Top 1/2 of the conference since Sadler has been there? Gone to the NCAA? Yet there is a coaching advantage over Capel?

If I am the homer in this thread, then you are the hater.

 

[Max Power]

They are picked ONE SPOT ahead of OU for TENTH, and yet you say they are "clearly" better than OU at 3 of 5 positions on the floor. How many times has NU finished in the Top 1/2 of the conference since Sadler has been there? Gone to the NCAA? Yet there is a coaching advantage over Capel?

If I am the homer in this thread, then you are the hater.

:clap

 

[Mackie McNeer]

Hey abd, did you know that feline AIDS is the #1 killer of domestic cats?

Seriously though I appreciate the doses of reality you provide, but if I wanted to be reminded daily of how much OU was going to suck this year and how bad OU's current basketball program is compared with that of every other Big 12 school, I'd visit the OSU site more.

If, however, you are simply providing your pessimistic analysis for use as motivation for the team then by all means carry on.

 

[thebigabd]

Hey abd, did you know that feline AIDS is the #1 killer of domestic cats?

Didnt know that.

Seriously though I appreciate the doses of reality you provide, but if I wanted to be reminded daily of how much OU was going to suck this year and how bad OU's current basketball program is compared with that of every other Big 12 school, I'd visit the OSU site more.

I wont change my opinion for the sake of fake optimism. But, I think this board needs a different opinion, outside of "OU IS AWESOME!". Without differing opinions and someone willing and able to be negative if the situation itself is negative, we become www.orangepower.com.

 

[thebigabd]

They are picked ONE SPOT ahead of OU for TENTH, and yet you say they are "clearly" better than OU at 3 of 5 positions on the floor. How many times has NU finished in the Top 1/2 of the conference since Sadler has been there? Gone to the NCAA? Yet there is a coaching advantage over Capel?

If I am the homer in this thread, then you are the hater.

How many times as OU been predicted as the conference doormat? How many times has OU finished 13-18? How many times has OU been blown out like we have under Capel?

You cant use historical stuff like that.. these are different times.

 

[NickZepp]

Outside of the top few in the Big 12 every team in the Big 12 is beatable for OU.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

PG: Lance Jeter (6'3'' 220-Senior)
-Big 12 All-Newcomer honors from the league's sportswriters following his junior campaign. Jeter paced the Huskers with 134 assists on the season, ranking eighth in the conference with 4.1 assists per game for the season. He was also seventh with a 1.9 assist-to-turnover ratio. Along with setting up his teammates, Jeter averaged 7.5 points and 3.8 rebounds per game.

Sorry, but this is not that impressive, not at all. I don't think that OU has anyone that will match his APG, but I feel comfortable that the rest of the numbers are "doable" between Blair and Newell. That is why I say "who knows", becuase this guy had average statistics for a point guard, and the only "real" advantage that he has is that we've seen him play.

PF: Christian Standhardinger (6'9'' 215-Soph)
-Standhardinger averaged 8.1 points and 3.8 rebounds per game while hitting 40.9 percent from the field and 37.5 percent from long range. He also was one of the team's top free throw shooters, hitting 78.3 percent from the line while getting to the line more times than any Husker since the start of league play.

6'9" and 215? But you have consistently said that Thompson needs to get bigger and stronger to compete in the B12? Seriously, this guy and Thompson are probably very similar players. That is why I say "who knows" . . . but if 8 points and 4 rebounds per game indicates a player that is "clearly" better than the unkown that OU is throwing out there then I'm not sure what to tell you.


C: Brian Diaz (6'11'' 245-Soph)
-Ranked in the Nebraska freshman top 10 for field goals (4th, 133), points scored (8th, 291) and scoring average (10th, 8.82).. Nebraska freshman record for blocks (41 in 2010)..averaged 8.8 points, 4.0 rebounds and 1.2 blocked shots per game.

The few times I saw him, Diaz played hard and he has a height advantage on everyone we have down low. That being said, I think that Fitzgerald can be comperable stastically if he sees same/similar minutes.

Bottom Line, OU fell apart last season becuase the talent wouldn't or couldn't co-exist with what they were being asked to do on the floor...NU never did much of anything becuase their players stunk. So please don't tell me that all of those same players are "clearly" better than what OU is bringing back or bringing in, becuase NU is not "clearly" better than anyone in the conference.

 

[thebigabd]

6'9" and 215? But you have consistently said that Thompson needs to get bigger and stronger to compete in the B12? Seriously, this guy and Thompson are probably very similar players. That is why I say "who knows" . . . but if 8 points and 4 rebounds per game indicates a player that is "clearly" better than the unkown that OU is throwing out there then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Usually when you average 8 and 4 in JUST BIG 12 GAMES as a freshman, its a good sign. He had some really nice games as a freshman. He wasnt able to play non-con because of an issue playing pro basketball in germany.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Standhardinger averaged 12 and 6 next year as a soph, something like that. Anyone who has seen him play would probably agree.

Sorry, but this is not that impressive, not at all. I don't think that OU has anyone that will match his APG, but I feel comfortable that the rest of the numbers are "doable" between Blair and Newell. That is why I say "who knows", becuase this guy had average statistics for a point guard, and the only "real" advantage that he has is that we've seen him play.

They also have a guy who was pretty well thought of who led Oregon in assists for two years at point guard.

NU never did much of anything becuase their players stunk.

NU had a new PG, new SG, new PF, and new C last year. They didnt stink, they just had no experience. Most of their contributors were first year guys.

 

[McG78]

You can't say that they have "three" starters at center and then say OU doesn't have two starters at point guard who are comparable to NU's because OU's are unknowns. NU's are also unknown.

You are kidding yourself if you think OU wasn't more talented than 66% of the teams we played last year. We had no desire, no hustle, and no unity to compete in this league, or any league for that matter. Similarly, you can't say that NU is clearly better based on talent. Willie was great his freshman year, but his soph. year performance was horrible. A lot can change.

Winning at the college level is more determined by desire, hustle, and discipline than actually being a more "talented" team.

Conference Breakdown for OU on paper is probably 5-11. You steal one or two and you are at 7-9. An 8-8 record probably is good enough for 5th or 6th this year. Here is a pessimistic breakdown:

UT games: 2 losses
Baylor (w/ or w/o Dunn): 2 losses
Tech: 1 loss and 1 win
A&M: 2 losses
OSU: 1 loss and 1 win
Kansas: 1 loss
KSU: 1 loss
Colorado: 1 win
Missouri: 1 loss
Iowa State: 1 win (on the road)
Nebraska: 1 win

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Oh, so now it was just in Big 12 play? Did you forget to cut and paste that part? Could you go ahead and prove those were his B12 stats. And even then, it still doesn't change the fact that according to your thoughts on Thompson (who you have said needs to add size to stack up in the B12) this cat is undersized. More of the same, our "new" 6'9" PF needs to gain weight before he can be effective, but the "other" guy is fine...and will probably even increase his statistical output.

As to experience, then is it fair to say that OU didn't stink last year either, we just had no experience. Glad you are willing to give Capel the same excuses as you are NU. Oh, wait a minute, you aren't. What is funny is that our inexperienced players actually outperformed their inexperienced players statistically for the most part last season. But whatever, the only thing this thread has shown me is that you had no problem taking big swipes at our guys and our coach, but all is forgiven with NU...

Here is a question for you, who did NU bring in for this season that is as talented or highly rated as Cam Clark? Calvin Newell? TJ? The year before, who did NU bring in that is was percieved as being as talented or as highly rated as Pledger or Fitz? In fact, when is the last time that NU, under Sadler, brought in a single player considered as one of the Top 150 nationally by any recruiting service? You say OU whiffed, but even then, our least thought of recruits are comperable to what you are saying makes NU "clearly" better.

So that to me is the crux of the problem with your analysis: OU has unknowns with their second tier level recruits that can't be quantified as "better" or "worse" than any of the lower end teams in the conference; however, when it comes to get's like a Cam, Newell and TJ, as any team in the conference would justifiably be happy to get them. For some reason you dismiss the potential of those guys as compared to average players at lower end conference schools.

 

[Dem Coltz]

Haters gonna hate.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Haters gonna hate.

I guess, but I'd at least like some consistency in the reasoning as to why we are going to suck and how another team that is perceived to suck almost as much is going to be "clearly" better. Last season we were picked what #3 or #4 in the conference by these same folks, we all saw how that worked out...because those picks were based on "unknowns" and those "unknowns" ended up killing us.

OU has "unknowns" again this season, but that cuts both ways...if you haven't seen a kid play, then you can't say that they are "clearly" better or "clearly" worse than a player you are comparing them against. You can guess at it, like if somebody said that "LeBron is better than Nick Thompson", most sane people would agree, but that is not the statement that is being made, it is that "Christian Standhardinger is clearly better than Nick Thompson" and on that point, nobody can be sure.

 

[campbest]

OU has "unknowns" again this season, but that cuts both ways...if you haven't seen a kid play, then you can't say that they are "clearly" better or "clearly" worse than a player you are comparing them against. You can guess at it, like if somebody said that "LeBron is better than Nick Thompson", most sane people would agree, but that is not the statement that is being made, it is that "Christian Standhardinger is clearly better than Nick Thompson" and on that point, nobody can be sure.

Agreed, but the German had some quality games last year...probably watched him five or six times in conference play (excluding the OU game). There is no way to know for sure on the comparison between Standhardinger and Thompson, but if I am throwing down money, I would place it on the German as opposed to a player who was not even a top 3-4 option (from my perspective) on his JUCO squad.

As for the Nebraska-OU comparison, OU has more raw talent IMO, but none of these players have played together before so when you couple that with inexperience I could give the slight edge to NU. On the other hand, NU still doesn't have a ton of experience so that advantage may be negated.

 

[thebigabd]

Oh, so now it was just in Big 12 play? Did you forget to cut and paste that part? Could you go ahead and prove those were his B12 stats.

He was only allowed to play in conference because the NCAA punished him for playing pro basketball in Germany.

Here is a question for you, who did NU bring in for this season that is as talented or highly rated as Cam Clark? Calvin Newell? TJ?

They signed two players, not 8.... but I can guarantee Caleb Walker is gonna be pretty good for them. He isnt as good as Cam or Newell though.

And even then, it still doesn't change the fact that according to your thoughts on Thompson (who you have said needs to add size to stack up in the B12) this cat is undersized. More of the same, our "new" 6'9" PF needs to gain weight before he can be effective, but the "other" guy is fine...and will probably even increase his statistical output.

Christian Standhardinger is a more talented player than Nick Thompson. Like campbest said, Thompson was the 3rd or 4th option on his juco team. Standhardinger (with no college experience) put up the same numbers as a freshman in the Big 12 that Thompson did in juco. Im sorry that you have never seen the kid play, but he is good.

The year before, who did NU bring in that is was percieved as being as talented or as highly rated as Pledger or Fitz?

Last year they brought in Eshaunte Jones who is almost an identical player to Pledger. He shot 43% from the 3pt line and is a big time shooter. They also brought in Standhardinger, who we have already discussed.

For some reason you dismiss the potential of those guys as compared to average players at lower end conference schools.

I have never said that Newell and Clark arent going to be very good, because they are and everyone knows it. But, top to bottom OU isnt as well put together this year as Nebraska.

As for comparing to lower end schools, I am doing that because thats where OU is right now. Im not going to compare OU to Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Baylor, etc because OU doesnt compare to those schools this year.

NU's are also unknown.

Diaz isnt unknown, and would easily be the starting 5 at OU this year. Standhardinger would be the unquestioned 4.