JUCO Players Update

[CoachTalk]

He wants to play fast and run and gun, score a bunch of points! Bringing in athletic bigs that can dunk and fly around is what he likes!
LK knows best!

 

[CobraKai]

Is it believed that Henry will make it in? Is he a 2013 guy?

 

[globecode]

These are the threads that make OUHoops so great! Thanks dahldennsull!

 

[KBaden145]

Is it believed that Henry will make it in? Is he a 2013 guy?

Not sounding good.

 

[Sam]

Is it believed that Henry will make it in? Is he a 2013 guy?

If, that's the key word, I don't think it'll be as a 2013 guy.

Bennett is taking a bad rap for no apparent reason. I don't know how Kruger will use his available players next season. This season he is trying to win with his bigs. Next season he might be trying to win with his guards.

But, if it is simply we lose Osby and one of the other guys takes his place. I'm not so sure Spangler has much if any advantage over Bennet. I wouldn't bet money either way one which of them turn out the best. Spangler is suppose to be the guy. But, Bennett has already displayed some usefull skillls.

You don't redshirt a juco like Bennennt if you don't think he will produce for two years. If they thought he'd be a 10th or 11th guy in the rotation, he'd be playing this year. Redshirting him is a sign, that he should be factor in his two seasons.

 

[bgrch1350]

Given the results under Kruger so far, why don't you trust his judgment?
OU has a much better team this year than I expected. I anticipate some drop off next year because OU loses Osby, Grooms, Pledger, and Fitzgerald; however, I am really starting to have confidence in Kruger and don't think it will be as bad as I suspected last season.

If I were to critize anything about Kruger's recruiting to this point it would be I would prefer to see Bennett, Cole, Hamilton or Elliott traded for another back court player. I am worried OU is going to be short one guard next season.

Arent is a juco player that is sitting the bench as a senior. Bennett is redshirting as a juco player. Those aren't the guys winning us games right now.

 

[bgrch1350]

Bennett is taking a bad rap for no apparent reason. I don't know how Kruger will use his available players next season. This season he is trying to win with his bigs. Next season he might be trying to win with his guards.

But, if it is simply we lose Osby and one of the other guys takes his place. I'm not so sure Spangler has much if any advantage over Bennet. I wouldn't bet money either way one which of them turn out the best. Spangler is suppose to be the guy. But, Bennett has already displayed some usefull skillls.

You just don't redshirt Juco players. Its going to be Spangler, M'Baye and Neal, and Clark in the post next year.

 

[garyeb2]

You just don't redshirt Juco players. Its going to be Spangler, M'Baye and Neal, and Clark in the post next year.

I think that I said that I didn't know at this point who Kruger will start or how he will rotate his players. I don't think you do either. I assume that is your opinion.

Here is mine. The Clark experiment at the #4 will end. He will move back to the #3 next season and play the position like Kruger wants it played or he will be regulated to mop up minutes as a senior. I don't see how Neal ever works himself back into a meaningfull role.

Spangler runs the floor like a guard and is a committed defender and rebounder. He is about 6'8'' and will start the season at almost 240. (He will play himself down to around 225) He is strong and tough as nails. He will be a big asset to the program for the next 3 yrs.

Bennett is an extrodinary shot blocker and a protect the rim presence that Spangler can not be. He isn't as strong, but, taller and longer than Spangler. He will be a better player and a bigger contributor than players like Fitz. He will get plenty of minutes and be a fan favorite.

Both of the incoming Juco bigs will be better athletes and players than Fitz and at least one of them is likely to contribute right away. Osby is a tough loss. But, we will be in very good shape on the inside for several seasons to come.

 

[AdaSooner]

You just don't redshirt Juco players. Its going to be Spangler, M'Baye and Neal, and Clark in the post next year.

You don't know that for sure, so please don't pretend that you have an inside track into what Kruger will do a year from now, or that you know any more than the rest of us about our two juco signees.

I will agree that the numbers these guys are putting up are not impressive, particuarly at the juco level. What I don't know, and neither do you, is if there are extenuating circumstances that may be affecting their stats (injuries for example). I also agree that M'Baye (the transfer you said would not be a starter this year), Spangler and Clark are the likely candidates to start in the post positions next season. You forgot about Bennett, who by some accounts could play a significant role in our rotation next year. Neal, unless he improves appreciably between now and then, will continue to be a role player, and a limited one at that.

There is nothing wrong with being a role player. Believe it or not, smart coaches who don't have the luxury of bringing in high-profile recruits every season, and only a few do, sign the best players available, according to need and how well they fit their system. In other words, every player on the team can't be a starter. So, if Hamilton, Elliott or Henry aren't good enough to start, they'll be role players, along with everyone on our current roster who cannot break into the starting lineup next season.

 

[bgrch1350]

You don't know that for sure, so please don't pretend that you have an inside track into what Kruger will do a year from now, or that you know any more than the rest of us about our two juco signees.

I will agree that the numbers these guys are putting up are not impressive, particuarly at the juco level. What I don't know, and neither do you, is if there are extenuating circumstances that may be affecting their stats (injuries for example). I also agree that M'Baye (the transfer you said would not be a starter this year), Spangler and Clark are the likely candidates to start in the post positions next season. You forgot about Bennett, who by some accounts could play a significant role in our rotation next year. Neal, unless he improves appreciably between now and then, will continue to be a role player, and a limited one at that.

There is nothing wrong with being a role player. Believe it or not, smart coaches who don't have the luxury of bringing in high-profile recruits every season, and only a few do, sign the best players available, according to need and how well they fit their system. In other words, every player on the team can't be a starter. So, if Hamilton, Elliott or Henry aren't good enough to start, they'll be role players, along with everyone on our current roster who cannot break into the starting lineup next season.

I may have been wrong about M'Baye starting...but I wasn't wrong about him not being this great player.

Bennett is going to get 5 mins a game or less. He not good. I don't know what proof you want. Not only is he redshirting coming out of juco but He's redshirting when we could truly use a Center. I don't know what Hamilton and Elliot will bring, but I'm not excited about them. The juco talent is way down and thats b/c kids go to prep school now. Henry, if he comes, will be a good addition.

I think Kruger playing Clark at the 4 this year is more about playing him there next year.

 

[bgrch1350]

I think that I said that I didn't know at this point who Kruger will start or how he will rotate his players. I don't think you do either. I assume that is your opinion.

Here is mine. The Clark experiment at the #4 will end. He will move back to the #3 next season and play the position like Kruger wants it played or he will be regulated to mop up minutes as a senior. I don't see how Neal ever works himself back into a meaningfull role.

Spangler runs the floor like a guard and is a committed defender and rebounder. He is about 6'8'' and will start the season at almost 240. (He will play himself down to around 225) He is strong and tough as nails. He will be a big asset to the program for the next 3 yrs.

Bennett is an extrodinary shot blocker and a protect the rim presence that Spangler can not be. He isn't as strong, but, taller and longer than Spangler. He will be a better player and a bigger contributor than players like Fitz. He will get plenty of minutes and be a fan favorite.

Both of the incoming Juco bigs will be better athletes and players than Fitz and at least one of them is likely to contribute right away. Osby is a tough loss. But, we will be in very good shape on the inside for several seasons to come.

Better than Fitz...Fitz stats the past 2 years blows these guys juco stats out of the water. Better Athletes than Fitz, OK!!!

OSBY is not a tough loss...he's a gigantic loss. And you think losing him and Fitz are going to be easily replaced by 3 juco players that are combining for less points than Osby is averaging right now.

This is a down year for the big 12...it should be a lot better next year.

 

[dahldennsull]

I don't see how you can argue in any defense for Fitzgerald. Guy has flat out proved he isn't a valuable asset at this level of play. He is so unathletic it hurts me to watch. Can't get a rebound and can only get garbage points and hit 15 ft jumpers when left open, and lets not get started on his defense.

The only reason he had stats the last few years and was a starter was because Capel left the team completely devoid of talent. Fitz wouldn't sniff the court on so many good OU teams, and teams finishing in the top 3/4 of the conference.

I agree that Osby will be a tough loss, but we are going to have to have a combination of guys step up to replace his stats. M'Baye should get better, we will have a better 3rd and 4th big man next year too, and our guards should get better to supplement the scoring loss.

Also, would love to take that bet that Bennett gets less than 5 mpg next year. As others have said, you don't redshirt juco players unless you believe they can help you more in the future. If they come in and prove to be not very good, you don't make them redshirt and take up a scholarship an extra year in your program when you only get 14 to hand out. Just like Arent didn't redshirt, you get them out in 2 years. So by asking him to redshirt, it leads me to believe that they think he can contribute for the next 2 years.

 

[Max Power]

I may have been wrong about M'Baye starting...but I wasn't wrong about him not being this great player.

Bennett is going to get 5 mins a game or less. He not good. I don't know what proof you want. Not only is he redshirting coming out of juco but He's redshirting when we could truly use a Center. I don't know what Hamilton and Elliot will bring, but I'm not excited about them. The juco talent is way down and thats b/c kids go to prep school now. Henry, if he comes, will be a good addition.

I think Kruger playing Clark at the 4 this year is more about playing him there next year.

Ok I will take the bet, If Bennett averages less than 5 minutes a game next year I never post again. If he averages more than 5 a game you never post again. Deal?

 

[AdaSooner]

I may have been wrong about M'Baye starting...but I wasn't wrong about him not being this great player.

Bennett is going to get 5 mins a game or less. He not good. I don't know what proof you want. Not only is he redshirting coming out of juco but He's redshirting when we could truly use a Center. I don't know what Hamilton and Elliot will bring, but I'm not excited about them. The juco talent is way down and thats b/c kids go to prep school now. Henry, if he comes, will be a good addition.

I think Kruger playing Clark at the 4 this year is more about playing him there next year.

How about more proof than you have given me so far that Bennett will not be a good player? OU's coaches and a few people I know and trust disagree with you. He didn't sit out the season because he couldn't play, he redshirted due to his potential to be a major contributor when next year and beyond when Osby and Fitz are no longer around.

When guys like Garyeb2 who has been to virtually every practice since before the season began says this about Bennett, that means more to me than anything I read not based on fact:

Bennett is an extrodinary shot blocker and a protect the rim presence that Spangler can not be. He isn't as strong, but, taller and longer than Spangler. He will be a better player and a bigger contributor than players like Fitz. He will get plenty of minutes and be a fan favorite.

 

[garyeb2]

I think Bennett redshirted because Kruger wanted him to put on some weight and get alittle stronger. With that, I think everyone around the program thinks he will be a solid contibutor for us. I think Spangler will be a good player too. And I don't know how Kruger will rotate them.

 

[UHsurfer12]

Kyle, do you ever work? Between this and the chat recap on soonerscoop you've been pretty productive haha

 

[152219]

I don't see how you can argue in any defense for Fitzgerald. Guy has flat out proved he isn't a valuable asset at this level of play. He is so unathletic it hurts me to watch. Can't get a rebound and can only get garbage points and hit 15 ft jumpers when left open, and lets not get started on his defense.

The only reason he had stats the last few years and was a starter was because Capel left the team completely devoid of talent. Fitz wouldn't sniff the court on so many good OU teams, and teams finishing in the top 3/4 of the conference.

I agree that Osby will be a tough loss, but we are going to have to have a combination of guys step up to replace his stats. M'Baye should get better, we will have a better 3rd and 4th big man next year too, and our guards should get better to supplement the scoring loss.

Also, would love to take that bet that Bennett gets less than 5 mpg next year. As others have said, you don't redshirt juco players unless you believe they can help you more in the future. If they come in and prove to be not very good, you don't make them redshirt and take up a scholarship an extra year in your program when you only get 14 to hand out. Just like Arent didn't redshirt, you get them out in 2 years. So by asking him to redshirt, it leads me to believe that they think he can contribute for the next 2 years.

Looks like there were a number of very good to excellent coaches who were wrong about Fitzgerald then

http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Andrew-Fitzgerald-69555

Look at his offer list

 

[KBaden145]

In 2 years it will be hard to remember we had marginal talent like Fitz, Grooms, and Neal on our roster. Fitz and Grooms will be easily replaced next year (Bennett, Elliott, Hamilton, Henry, or whoever for Fitz and Woodard for Grooms) and Neal will struggle to find the floor next season.

Osby will be a tough loss but I think Spangler will prove to be another shining example of how poor our coaching was prior to Krugers arrival. People will ask over and over why anyone in their right mind wouldn't offer this kid out of HS.

No one knows what next year will look like but I think most people with any sense should see we won't miss Fitz next year.

 

[dahldennsull]

Kyle, do you ever work? Between this and the chat recap on soonerscoop you've been pretty productive haha

ouch, calling me out medschool boy? haha

call it efficient time management. Keeping an excel spreadsheet with these guys stats is super easy and quick to add a game or two when I check in and then give y'all the update.

Don't normally chat recap but came back from lunch and had just enough time before a meeting to not start a new project so figured I would just recap it real quick for everyone

 

[dahldennsull]

Looks like there were a number of very good to excellent coaches who were wrong about Fitzgerald then

http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Andrew-Fitzgerald-69555

Look at his offer list

To be honest, yes they were. And Fitz would never have seen the minutes or stats at any of those other schools. Would have been bypassed quickly.

Look at the 5 stars alone that year. There are 25 of them, think they have pretty good offer lists? Now see if you can tell me how good they were in college, or if you ever even heard of them:

#9 Keith Gallon (snicker, but at least had the talent, $0.05 brain though)
#10 Mouphtaou Yarou
#13 Abdul Gaddy
#14 Dante Taylor
#16 Renardo Sidney
#18 Wally Judge
#25 Milton Jennings

There is over 1/4 of the 5 stars that year that didn't amount to their ranking and offer list in college. Coaches and ranking websites see good traits that they expect to progress in college and make them a future player.

Fitzgerald showed in HS that he could score with a jumper and box out in HS for a rebound. In a decent basketball conference like the Big 12 it has become very apparent that he doesn't have the athleticism to create his own shot, rebound or play defense. Not bashing his character or anything as he has shown the hard work to lose the weight and attempt to make himself better. But the proof is in the pudding, he just isn't on the level that he needs to be athletically to compete at the top of the D1 level.