Kendal Harris names top 5

[bgrch1350]

I get ripped every time I say it, but I'd personally like to see Neal and Arent both redshirt this season and see if they can get better. Arent came to OU requesting to be redshirted but took one for the team. I think Neal could really use a year to develop, he is just young.

BTW, I totally disagree with the OP, but kudos, you got a three page thread going in August.

If you have to redshirt players when they are juniors or seniors, especially when they are on a team that only won 5 games in conference...you are better off just removing them from scholarship and giving it to someone else. If they were players that could start for most big conference schools but would see very little playing time b/c they are behind even better players on the depth chart, then yes...redshirt them.

Arent and Neal could both see a lot of playing time this year. The opportunity is there for both players. OU is not loaded with players that can't be beaten out for minutes. If Neal and Arent can't crack this teams rotation...then they aren't worthy of a redshirt.

 

[bgrch1350]

M'Baye will start from Day 1 and be our best player by Christmas, giving him some time to get back in the flow of the game!

I'll believe it when I see it. Won't hurt me if he does, but I don't see him starting at the 5...which pencils in Fitzgerald as a 3 year starter. I don't see him beating out Osby for the starting spot at the 4. And I don't see him starting over Clark at the 3.

For me to believe he's going to start..I truly have to buy in to the fact that he will be better than Osby and I don't think he is.

 

[WTSooner]

He isn't going to start over Osby. He'll either start over Fitz, over Clark, or he'll come off the bench.

I lean towards him starting over Fitz, but I can also see the upside of having him come off the bench with some of the young kids. It'll be interesting to see what LK does.

 

[garyeb2]

There is no upside to having your best player sitting on the bench. If OU is going to have a good team, he needs to be in there for as much as the 40 min. as he can stand.

 

[p230]

He isn't going to start over Osby. He'll either start over Fitz, over Clark, or he'll come off the bench.

I lean towards him starting over Fitz, but I can also see the upside of having him come off the bench with some of the young kids. It'll be interesting to see what LK does.

Does it matter if he comes off the bench? I have always felt Fitz would do a lot better with more limited playing time. He need to be fresh to shoot his best (my opinion) I would not be suprisied to see Fitz start but Amath have more minutes per game.

 

[DenverSooner]

There is no upside to having your best player sitting on the bench. If OU is going to have a good team, he needs to be in there for as much as the 40 min. as he can stand.

Really, you cannot think of any team associated with the stat of Oklahoma that brings one of its best players off the bench? I sit here scratching my beard wondering how a basketball fan could fail to recognize the benefits of bringing a scorer off the bench.

 

[campbest]

I get ripped every time I say it, but I'd personally like to see Neal and Arent both redshirt this season and see if they can get better. Arent came to OU requesting to be redshirted but took one for the team. I think Neal could really use a year to develop, he is just young.

BTW, I totally disagree with the OP, but kudos, you got a three page thread going in August.

Why would you want to redshirt an unproductive scholarship that was a late, last grasp signee?

Let him use his eligibility and give the scholarship to someone who may contribute.

 

[garyeb2]

Really, you cannot think of any team associated with the stat of Oklahoma that brings one of its best players off the bench? I sit here scratching my beard wondering how a basketball fan could fail to recognize the benefits of bringing a scorer off the bench.

I don't have a beard to scratch. But, I still have most all of my hair and I'll scratch that. Harden comes off the bench for the Thunder. What in the world would that have to do with this topic. The Thunder have a good team and have two allstarts on the floor when he is on the bench. Do you see how that might not be applicable to OU's current situation?

 

[WTSooner]

Does it matter if he comes off the bench? I have always felt Fitz would do a lot better with more limited playing time. He need to be fresh to shoot his best (my opinion) I would not be suprisied to see Fitz start but Amath have more minutes per game.

It may not "matter", but I think it's a situation that has to be monitored. Our starters actually played really well most of the time to start games last year. There were very few games we simply were out of early on.

The other good thing about bringing M'Baye off the bench is that in theory he can replace 3 players. Osby, Fitz, or Clark. You can see how the game is progressing, and substitute accordingly. I've also wondered aloud how well Fitz would play being forced to the bench for his senior year.

It doesn't really matter who starts. There are plenty of examples of bench players getting more minutes than starters.

 

[garyeb2]

I don't know how you guys can fail to consider something so obvious. M'Baye is 23 yrs.old. He is the best player. He is Kruger's guy. He is the leader of this team. It is his team. He is the show. The rest of them are role players.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Why would you want to redshirt an unproductive scholarship that was a late, last grasp signee?

Let him use his eligibility and give the scholarship to someone who may contribute.

Because that is what he asked for when he came to OU. He knew he wasn't ready and said as much, not like we are going 13 deep anytime soon. He took one for the team, I'd just like to see the team give it back. With Neal, I just think he is young and would like to see what grown-up looks like out there. Like I said, I knew I'd get ripped.

 

[WTSooner]

I don't know how you guys can fail to consider something so obvious. M'Baye is 23 yrs.old. He is the best player. He is Kruger's guy. He is the leader of this team. It is his team. He is the show. The rest of them are role players.

It is NOT his team. He may be the vocal leader, but this team belongs to Pledger/Fitz, and Osby to a lesser degree.

And this "best player" stuff is just talk until he proves it on the court. Yes, he is likely one of the best players, but to say "best player", like he is Michael Jordan, is kind of silly. His production is not going to be head an shoulders above that of Pledger, or even Osby. In fact, I doubt he is even our leading scorer.

 

[garyeb2]

It is NOT his team. He may be the vocal leader, but this team belongs to Pledger/Fitz, and Osby to a lesser degree.

And this "best player" stuff is just talk until he proves it on the court. Yes, he is likely one of the best players, but to say "best player", like he is Michael Jordan, is kind of silly.

WT, it might be benificial to you if you actually watched some of the video posted on this site. Kruger said he expected M'baye to be the leader this year. He went on to say that Osby tried to assume that role last season, but, it wasn't natural for him. Don't take a position opposite from Kruger and expect anyone to give it much credence.

M'Baye doesn't have to be the 2nd coming of Jordan to be the best player for OU. The bar is pretty darned low right now. Osby looks like he could be a pretty good player for OU if he just had some help. Any kind of help from anywhere. He didn't get it last year.

If the objective is to have a .500 caliber team, then all you have to do is load it up with players like Fitz and Pledger. For everything that they do that makes you think they can help the team win, they do something else to get them beat. If the objectivde is to have a good basketball team, then, those kind of players are the problem. Not the solution. Those two won't be leading anyone anywhere.

OU will be better this year. That is a given. But, if they are going to be good. And that is a possibility. Then that burden will rest with M'Baye, Osby, the developement of the freshman guards, and some kind of awakening from Cam. If nothing else, and there is plenty, every minute that Pledger and Fitz spend on the floor, OU will be playing bad defense. Good teams don't do that.

 

[WTSooner]

WT, it might be benificial to you if you actually watched some of the video posted on this site. Kruger said he expected M'baye to be the leader this year. He went on to say that Osby tried to assume that role last season, but, it wasn't natural for him. Don't take a position opposite from Kruger and expect anyone to give it much credence.

You are missing the point, which really shouldn't surprise me that much.

Saying a team "belongs" to somebody, isn't the same as calling them a leader. It belongs to the seniors, not a guy that has been on campus for 12 months. I don't disagree that M'Baye is going to be the vocal leader. Fine. Good. But that doesn't give him ownership of the team over guys that will play major minutes this season, and have been on campus for 4 years. I just object to the way you worded that. This team "belongs" to Pledger/Fitz/Osby. M'Baye may lead it vocally though.

M'Baye doesn't have to be the 2nd coming of Jordan to be the best player for OU. The bar is pretty darned low right now. Osby looks like he could be a pretty good player for OU if he just had some help. Any kind of help from anywhere. He didn't get it last year.

If the objective is to have a .500 caliber team, then all you have to do is load it up with players like Fitz and Pledger. For everything that they do that makes you think they can help the team win, they do something else to get them beat. If the objectivde is to have a good basketball team, then, those kind of players are the problem. Not the solution. Those two won't be leading anyone anywhere.

OU will be better this year. That is a given. But, if they are going to be good. And that is a possibility. Then that burden will rest with M'Baye, Osby, the developement of the freshman guards, and some kind of awakening from Cam. If nothing else, and there is plenty, every minute that Pledger and Fitz spend on the floor, OU will be playing bad defense. Good teams don't do that.

*sigh*

Question for you.....if you take last year's team, and you put Cousins, Hornbeak, and Hield on the bench, and two of them play quality bench minutes, decently, but never really push the starters for their minutes, how many more wins do you think we'd have had? Basically by just having quality, athletic bodies on the bench?

I say enough that we're in the discussion for an NCAA Tournament bid.

We don't need guys that will replace Pledger/Fitz/Clark. We need guys that can push them, give them a break, and not give up the lead when they go to the bench. We also need guys that can step in and provide a spark when say, Clark, can't hit the broad side of a barn. That is what we will have this year. None of those freshman are going to unseat the veteran players. They are going to provide HELP, which we had NONE of last year. Big difference between that, and wording things how you word them.

 

[garyeb2]

You are missing the point, which really shouldn't surprise me that much.

Saying a team "belongs" to somebody, isn't the same as calling them a leader. It belongs to the seniors, not a guy that has been on campus for 12 months. I don't disagree that M'Baye is going to be the vocal leader. Fine. Good. But that doesn't give him ownership of the team over guys that will play major minutes this season, and have been on campus for 4 years. I just object to the way you worded that. This team "belongs" to Pledger/Fitz/Osby. M'Baye may lead it vocally though.



*sigh*

Question for you.....if you take last year's team, and you put Cousins, Hornbeak, and Hield on the bench, and two of them play quality bench minutes, decently, but never really push the starters for their minutes, how many more wins do you think we'd have had? Basically by just having quality, athletic bodies on the bench?

I say enough that we're in the discussion for an NCAA Tournament bid.

We don't need guys that will replace Pledger/Fitz/Clark. We need guys that can push them, give them a break, and not give up the lead when they go to the bench. We also need guys that can step in and provide a spark when say, Clark, can't hit the broad side of a barn. That is what we will have this year. None of those freshman are going to unseat the veteran players. They are going to provide HELP, which we had NONE of last year. Big difference between that, and wording things how you word them.

It is a big step from hs/aau ball to the Big 12. I don't know how much of that real estate Heild, Hornbeak, and Cousins will cover early on. Nor, do I know how fast they will cover it. Those are the only variables.

But, this I believe is a certainty. All three of them are better players than Pledger. If they aren't, Lon should have never signed them. In the end Kruger will win more Big 12 games with those three guards than he could ever win with Grooms, Pledger, and Cam.

If one, two, or three of them transition quickly, then one,two, or three of them will start and play the majority of minutes. The 5-13 Capel leftovers have no answer for quick, athletic, ready to play, skilled competition.

Yes it is certainly a problem when a game is on the line and you see players like Blair, CJ, and Barry on the floor. Tyler and Arent weren't much help either. But, the responsibility for that 5-13 mess goes to the guys getting 32 min. per game. There is no excuse that can let them off the hook.

OU was one of the 2/3 worst teams in the conference last season. Making the leap to a top 40 tourney caliber team won't happen because we have better quaility 8 min. per game bench players. It will take more than that. It will take better 32 min. guys.

 

[WaymanFan]

It is a big step from hs/aau ball to the Big 12. I don't know how much of that real estate Heild, Hornbeak, and Cousins will cover early on. Nor, do I know how fast they will cover it. Those are the only variables.

But, this I believe is a certainty. All three of them are better players than Pledger.

C'mon Gary. I know you don't like Pledger, but it shouldn't trigger unrealistic predictions. All three of them may be better than Pledge by 2015. If any one of them is 75% as good as him in 2012-2013, I'll be ecstatic because our NCAA Tournament chances just skyrocketed.

 

[garyeb2]

C'mon Gary. I know you don't like Pledger, but it shouldn't trigger unrealistic predictions. All three of them may be better than Pledge by 2015. If any one of them is 75% as good as him in 2012-2013, I'll be ecstatic because our NCAA Tournament chances just skyrocketed.

Basketball is a team sport. The object of the exercise is for the team to win. Some people seem to want to value a players worth to the team by only what they do well individually. I'm more of an assets minus liabilities equals net worth kind of a guy.

Pledger is a good shooter. On some nights he is a very good shooter. But, when factoring in his liabilities, I just cann't see much net worth there relative to winning in the Big 12.

 

[bgrch1350]

M'Baye doesn't have to be the 2nd coming of Jordan to be the best player for OU. The bar is pretty darned low right now. Osby looks like he could be a pretty good player for OU if he just had some help. Any kind of help from anywhere. He didn't get it last year.

If the objective is to have a .500 caliber team, then all you have to do is load it up with players like Fitz and Pledger. For everything that they do that makes you think they can help the team win, they do something else to get them beat. If the objective is to have a good basketball team, then, those kind of players are the problem. Not the solution. Those two won't be leading anyone anywhere.

OU will be better this year. That is a given. But, if they are going to be good. And that is a possibility. Then that burden will rest with M'Baye, Osby, the development of the freshman guards, and some kind of awakening from Cam. If nothing else, and there is plenty, every minute that Pledger and Fitz spend on the floor, OU will be playing bad defense. Good teams don't do that.

M'Baye needs to prove it on the court...not in practice. You obvious want to give him the crown already. The last time he played for a Div 1 team, he was one of their top 2 players. That team went 10-21 and 3-13 in conference. They lose him, their other leading scorer, and 1 more starter and they go from 10-21 to 21-12 the following season. They basically lose M'Baye and just add Leonard Washington and they win 11 more games.

As for Kruger giving him all this praise...has history not shown us what this truly means to OU for guys who have red-shirted. Whoever is red-shirting is supposedly going to be our savior from Nate Carter, to Ryan Wright, to Romero Osby, to now Amath M'Baye. And next year it will be Ryan Spangler.

I have no doubt that M'Baye is a good player, and that he is doing great in practice...but he needs to prove it come November. You guys need to understand that Osby, Fitz, Pledge, Clark and many others are going to be improved from last season to this one.
We had a chance last year to get back to the tournament but Newell transferring killed us. Our starting 5 really was a good solid lineup last year, and personally I thought it was the 3rd or 4th best int he Big 12, just behind KU, Baylor and Mizzou...it was our bench that killed us. After Newell left, we had no one. Most of that falls on Capel...but some of it falls on Kruger. He only brought in 2 players who could play immediately, and he had 2 available scholarships he didn't use.

Our starting 5 doesn't need to be fixed...it's our bench. Blair, Arent, Neal, and Washington made up the worst bench in the Big 12. With our starting 5 returning...if we fix the bench...we fix the problem..and we get back to the top half of the Big 12 and even the NCAA tournament.

 

[garyeb2]

M'Baye needs to prove it on the court...not in practice. You obvious want to give him the crown already. The last time he played for a Div 1 team, he was one of their top 2 players. That team went 10-21 and 3-13 in conference. They lose him, their other leading scorer, and 1 more starter and they go from 10-21 to 21-12 the following season. They basically lose M'Baye and just add Leonard Washington and they win 11 more games.

As for Kruger giving him all this praise...has history not shown us what this truly means to OU for guys who have red-shirted. Whoever is red-shirting is supposedly going to be our savior from Nate Carter, to Ryan Wright, to Romero Osby, to now Amath M'Baye. And next year it will be Ryan Spangler.

I have no doubt that M'Baye is a good player, and that he is doing great in practice...but he needs to prove it come November. You guys need to understand that Osby, Fitz, Pledge, Clark and many others are going to be improved from last season to this one.
We had a chance last year to get back to the tournament but Newell transferring killed us. Our starting 5 really was a good solid lineup last year, and personally I thought it was the 3rd or 4th best int he Big 12, just behind KU, Baylor and Mizzou...it was our bench that killed us. After Newell left, we had no one. Most of that falls on Capel...but some of it falls on Kruger. He only brought in 2 players who could play immediately, and he had 2 available scholarships he didn't use.

Our starting 5 doesn't need to be fixed...it's our bench. Blair, Arent, Neal, and Washington made up the worst bench in the Big 12. With our starting 5 returning...if we fix the bench...we fix the problem..and we get back to the top half of the Big 12 and even the NCAA tournament.

You act like my evaluation of M'Baye is way out in left field or something. All I can tell you is that everyone that has seen him in the gym says the same thing. That is everyone from fans, to his own team mates, scouts,ex coaches, and reporters. Everyone.

You can coulda, shoulda, woulda all you like about the abilities of last years starters. But, here are the facts. The program has endured 3 losing seasons in a row. Last years team was 5-13 in conference and lost to the likes of TT,OSU, and A&M. They didn't prove on the court that they were better than anyone.

Yea, I know. They played a couple of good teams close and beat KSt twice. It all adds up to 5-13. And you can not get around that.

If that same bunch ends up as Kruger's best options again, it will be the same story again. Week after week of close calls. But, no cigar.

Kruger will get his 600th win this season and will get to 700 if he stays his contract. Why is it such a stretch for so many of you to discount the possibility of him being able to bring in better players than the flawed and underperforming bunch he inheited?

 

[WTSooner]

OU was one of the 2/3 worst teams in the conference last season. Making the leap to a top 40 tourney caliber team won't happen because we have better quaility 8 min. per game bench players. It will take more than that. It will take better 32 min. guys.

Newell - 20
Blair - 15
Neal - 13
Washington - 12

Those are the average minutes played for those guys. Significantly more than 8. And those are the minutes that the frosh have a chance to steal. That, and 3-5 from Clark, along with 1-2 from Pledger. There are plenty of minutes out there that don't have to be taken from the starters.

M'Baye over Washington and Arent. Bennett over Arent and Honore. The frosh over Newell/Blair/Neal. The frosh taking 5 minutes from Clark.

That is a TON of playing time, without sitting a guy like Pledger on the bench. Pledger averaged 33 minutes/game last year. I'd be shocked if he averaged less than 30 this year.