Kendal Harris names top 5

[garyeb2]

Newell - 20
Blair - 15
Neal - 13
Washington - 12

Those are the average minutes played for those guys. Significantly more than 8. And those are the minutes that the frosh have a chance to steal. That, and 3-5 from Clark, along with 1-2 from Pledger. There are plenty of minutes out there that don't have to be taken from the starters.

M'Baye over Washington and Arent. Bennett over Arent and Honore. The frosh over Newell/Blair/Neal. The frosh taking 5 minutes from Clark.

That is a TON of playing time, without sitting a guy like Pledger on the bench. Pledger averaged 33 minutes/game last year. I'd be shocked if he averaged less than 30 this year.

Here is the problem. You keep thinking in terms of "returning starters". Since you chose to box yourself in like that, I can see how you can come up with all these make believe rotations.

But, here is the reality. Coming off last season and starting his 2nd season, returning starter is not in Kruger's vocabulary. He said it isn't. He told his players it doesn't apply. Even Yo Yo said it. Returning starter is a figment of your imagination.

Kruger has never said that he needed a sronger bench to win. He said he needed better players, tougher players, players with more fight. From the way you shape your position, it is like you believe that Kruger thinks that Pledger is some special talent that he intends to shape his team around. It is just as likely that Kruger thinks just the opposite. That he is more than ready to move on to a player that isn't so limited in the ways that they contribute.

When the CBS guy picked OU as his Big 12 sleeper because he thought that Kruger might sart 2 talented freshmen, did he just make that up or did he have a source in the program. Don't they call him Mr. inside college basketball?

Yo Yo didn't have to say anything about starters or who would play. But, he did. He said that those freshmen have a chance to start every game as long as they are with the program. Is he making up stuff too?

You are putting way too much value in kids that can not win games and the Coach has publically question their heart. There is nothing a Coach could do that would more damning and reflective of his feelings. It would be a mistake to completly dismiss the possibility that Kruger is more than ready to just move on with his team.

I don't know who will step up and who won't. But, it isn't a complicated formula. If Kruger's best options look about like last years team with the same bunch getting simular minutes, the team will have a pretty low ceiling. If it is M'baye and Osby getting the 30+ min. and Fitz and Pledger capped at about 15 min, Kruger will have a pretty good bunch and a chance to go along ways.

I am not saying that Kruger would start or put in players just because they are different. They would have to step up. But, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Kruger didn't tell Cousins that the starting job was his to lose and that Heild turns out to be good enough to be that new direction guy.

 

[BigTime]

- Pledger will average 30 plus minutes...
- Fitzgerald will get over 20 mpg
- OU will be dancing again.

All my opinion. I do feel really good about the first two and after talking to someone close to the program, I am starting to feel real good about the third one.

 

[garyeb2]

- Pledger will average 30 plus minutes...
- Fitzgerald will get over 20 mpg
- OU will be dancing again.

All my opinion. I do feel really good about the first two and after talking to someone close to the program, I am starting to feel real good about the third one.

I'm feeling really good about the 3rd one too. Obviously, not for the same reasons you do.

 

[bgrch1350]

- Pledger will average 30 plus minutes...
- Fitzgerald will get over 20 mpg
- OU will be dancing again.

All my opinion. I do feel really good about the first two and after talking to someone close to the program, I am starting to feel real good about the third one.

If Pledger isn't in foul trouble, he will be on the court 30 plus minutes.

Fitzgerald will be better than last year. He is the biggest offensive threat on this team. To put a number on Fitz's minutes is stupid. I like his game. He has improved every season and I don't see why that would stop going into this season. I think some of you need to go back and check out his game stats from the past couple of seasons to be reminded of what kind of a contributor he has been for this team.

 

[garyeb2]

If Pledger isn't in foul trouble, he will be on the court 30 plus minutes.

Fitzgerald will be better than last year. He is the biggest offensive threat on this team. To put a number on Fitz's minutes is stupid. I like his game. He has improved every season and I don't see why that would stop going into this season. I think some of you need to go back and check out his game stats from the past couple of seasons to be reminded of what kind of a contributor he has been for this team.

UH, I think you guys are forgetting something. Pledger would have never gotten 30+ min. a game last year if Calvin had stuck around. Even the most avid Pledger supporter couldn't really believe that he would have done better than a 25/15 split. Obviously, I think at best it would have no better than 20/20. But, that isn't the point.

The point is that no other viable option was present. Those guys starting last year had to stay on the floor. That in part, kept Kruger from doing alot of things he wanted to do.

Even if I am dead wrong about Pledger, there enough good looking guard prospects on this team for Kruger to neither want or need any of them on the floor for more the 25 min. They will play faster and if it is Pledger, he will need more frequent breaks. Same for Grooms and Clark if they hold on.

Not so much for the bigs though. The bench doesn't look so good and deep.

 

[WTSooner]

Minutes played by each in the last two games Newell played at OU:

vs Santa Clara
Pledger - 31
Newell - 15

vs STL
Pledger - 35
Newell - 13

 

[WTSooner]

When the CBS guy picked OU as his Big 12 sleeper because he thought that Kruger might sart 2 talented freshmen, did he just make that up or did he have a source in the program. Don't they call him Mr. inside college basketball?

You talking about the article BigTime posted tonight? Where does he say any of that? He never says a word about those two freshmen "starting". He praises Pledger, and states that OU can be a good team IF M'Baye can turn into a legitimate option NEXT TO (his words) Pledger. He also leaves Hield and Cousins off his "Ten Freshmen To Watch" list, but does include them below that in the "Five Under-The-Radar Freshmen" list.

 

[garyeb2]

Minutes played by each in the last two games Newell played at OU:

vs Santa Clara
Pledger - 31
Newell - 15

vs STL
Pledger - 35
Newell - 13

What is your point WT. I don't remember the circustances, foul trouble, or rotation for those two games. Calvin and Pledger played the same position. The minutes for the #2 was theirs to split up. For those two games they were obviously on the floor at the same time some for some reason. That happens sometimes when so shorthanded.

Let's bottom line this. If OU can get thru non conference in good shape and then finish 9-9 or better in conference. And if you can build any kind of a case, even the most flimsy of cases that Pledger was a measureable contributing factor. Then, I'll take my medicine like a big boy.

But, until then, to me he is just another Capel leftover that will get you beat.

 

[garyeb2]

You talking about the article BigTime posted tonight? Where does he say any of that? He never says a word about those two freshmen "starting". He praises Pledger, and states that OU can be a good team IF M'Baye can turn into a legitimate option NEXT TO (his words) Pledger. He also leaves Hield and Cousins off his "Ten Freshmen To Watch" list, but does include them below that in the "Five Under-The-Radar Freshmen" list.

No, it was a previously posted article by the same guy. Who I think is a very credible source. In this one he changed his order of finish alittle and gave Pledger a nice thumbs up. But, like you, I think he over values Pledger and undervalues the freshmens ability to move in on last years guys minutes.

 

[Darwin]

Wow this Kendal Harris thread is hot.
Its going to be easy for some freshmen to get good minutes and last years starters to lose minutes because of the need for depth. If the new guys can do it in crunch time this team will dance again. Its very possible both sides of this issue will claim victory during 12/13 looking at the same team, but its summer so knock yourselves out.

 

[luckyc1423]

Minutes played by each in the last two games Newell played at OU:

vs Santa Clara
Pledger - 31
Newell - 15

vs STL
Pledger - 35
Newell - 13

I dont think its fair to just throw out the last two games. newell started to get better and better each game. I could easily see new taking more and more of pledgers minutes each game.

 

[WTSooner]

I dont think its fair to just throw out the last two games. newell started to get better and better each game. I could easily see new taking more and more of pledgers minutes each game.

True, and his minutes decreased as he was "getting better." He played a lot that first game, b/c Pledger was suspended. Pledger's minutes slowly started going up, and Newell's down, despite Newell playing "well". Pledger was not in ANY danger of losing significant minutes to Newell. That became obvious before Newell left, and might have been part of the reason why he left. Even Blair played more minutes in that last game.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I'm going to have to say that there should not be any guarantees to any player on a team that was sub. 500 in conference play, ever. That being said, I think OU is better next year, and while the record didn't necessarily reflect it, we were competitive in most of the games we played. Another year with quality coaching should put us around .500 in conference.

 

[bgrch1350]

I dont think its fair to just throw out the last two games. newell started to get better and better each game. I could easily see new taking more and more of pledgers minutes each game.

If Newell stuck around...his minutes would not take away any from Pledger. His minutes would have gone up as Blairs, Grooms, and Clarks took a dive. Clark lost his starting spot to Blair.

 

[campbest]

20/20 split for Pledger and Newell....get out of here with that nonsense.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

True, and his minutes decreased as he was "getting better." He played a lot that first game, b/c Pledger was suspended. Pledger's minutes slowly started going up, and Newell's down, despite Newell playing "well". Pledger was not in ANY danger of losing significant minutes to Newell. That became obvious before Newell left, and might have been part of the reason why he left. Even Blair played more minutes in that last game.

I agree with this. I'm trying to figure out how I missed this Newell guy, who was apparently better than any guard we ever had. Never seen a guy do so little, and receive so many accolades about what he was GOING to do.....

No way he took minutes from Pledger. Pledger was considered our best scoring option by opposing teams/coaches. His presence on the court, even when not on fire, made them worry about the constant threat of the 3. Pretty simple to understand, IMO......

 

[garyeb2]

I agree with this. I'm trying to figure out how I missed this Newell guy, who was apparently better than any guard we ever had. Never seen a guy do so little, and receive so many accolades about what he was GOING to do.....

No way he took minutes from Pledger. Pledger was considered our best scoring option by opposing teams/coaches. His presence on the court, even when not on fire, made them worry about the constant threat of the 3. Pretty simple to understand, IMO......

Let me try to bring you up to speed. I like helping my fellow posters. Calvin showed up as a soph. a much improved player from his freshman year. He was a 30 point scorer in HS and most felt he under performed badly in his 1st year. He started at the point for Capel early, but, his play was so uneven, Blair won out.

From the 1st official day of practice last season, he was taking as many reps with the 1's as Pledger. Some days he was first in and Pledger was the sixth man. Early on Calvin established himself as a better defender, better ball handler, and better passer than Pledger. It wasn't close.

Calvin played in 5 games. He averaged 14+ per in about 18 min. per. Over the same 5 game spread. Pledger averaged 17 pts. in about 28 min. per game. Pledger missed one of those games due to suspension. In that one Calvin virtually won that game singlehanded down the stretch.

Calvin didn't appear to be well liked and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. I don't know which one came 1st. Just from observing, it didn't appear that Kruger/Calvin was a good fit. Calvin left.

Pledger is/was alittle the best scorer. And in reality a better team/chemistry guy. Calvin had other #2 guard skills that Pledger could only dream about. Calvin would have played, he would have played alot, and he would have been an asset to the team.

But, that is all history now. Things are bright going forward. It is just that the revisonest history warranted a comment.

 

[StatGeek]

Let me try to bring you up to speed. I like helping my fellow posters. Calvin showed up as a soph. a much improved player from his freshman year. He was a 30 point scorer in HS and most felt he under performed badly in his 1st year. He started at the point for Capel early, but, his play was so uneven, Blair won out.

From the 1st official day of practice last season, he was taking as many reps with the 1's as Pledger. Some days he was first in and Pledger was the sixth man. Early on Calvin established himself as a better defender, better ball handler, and better passer than Pledger. It wasn't close.

Calvin played in 5 games. He averaged 14+ per in about 18 min. per. Over the same 5 game spread. Pledger averaged 17 pts. in about 28 min. per game. Pledger missed one of those games due to suspension. In that one Calvin virtually won that game singlehanded down the stretch.

Calvin didn't appear to be well liked and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. I don't know which one came 1st. Just from observing, it didn't appear that Kruger/Calvin was a good fit. Calvin left.

Pledger is/was alittle the best scorer. And in reality a better team/chemistry guy. Calvin had other #2 guard skills that Pledger could only dream about. Calvin would have played, he would have played alot, and he would have been an asset to the team.

But, that is all history now. Things are bright going forward. It is just that the revisonest history warranted a comment.

This Calvin Newell stuff is an absolute joke. Calvin could do one thing well: shoot without a conscious.

Shooting ability--Average
Shot Frequency--Kobesque
Ball Handling--Poor
Passing--Poor
Decision Making--Bad
Individual defense--Over aggressive
Team Defense--Out of position
Team Chemistry--Suspect

Calvin played sparingly on two crap teams and then transferred to an even crappier team, that's how great he was/is.

 

[WTSooner]

This Calvin Newell stuff is an absolute joke. Calvin could do one thing well: shoot without a conscious.

Shooting ability--Average
Shot Frequency--Kobesque
Ball Handling--Poor
Passing--Poor
Decision Making--Bad
Individual defense--Over aggressive
Team Defense--Out of position
Team Chemistry--Suspect

Calvin played sparingly on two crap teams and then transferred to an even crappier team, that's how great he was/is.

That is how I see it as well.

 

[garyeb2]

You two guys are practicing some type of Abbot and Costello routine,right?