Kruger and recruiting

[CoachTalk]

There's 80 starters on sweet 16 teams. It's a reasonable assumption that to be a legitimate sweet 16 team you need 5 top 75 recruits on your roster.

The track record of cobbling together sub 100 recruits into a legit team is poor. This is why Sampson was Mr. 1 and done most years.

I want you to answer this question. Prove this statement.

 

[Sooner04]

I would like to know the average star ranking of the 2013 Kentucky Wildcats, who lost in the first round of the NIT to Robert Morris.

Anybody know?

There are many ways to skin a cat and be a successful program. I really like what Lon is doing, and the improvement over the last two seasons leaves me no reason to doubt his methods.

 

[ArdmoreSooner]

When Sampson left, he had assembled a pretty good class. Fell apart when he left Indiana and Capel couldn't convince them to all stay. I think once Billy Tubbs got hot he had some kids like Webster that were top recruits. Oklahoma is not a top 10 basketball destination year in and year out. But when a coach has success here he can start getting those top tier kids. Those kids think they are one or two years from pro's. They want to know a coach can get them to the pro's, develop them, and win. As Kruger has success, if he stays and I hope he does, has some players get in the pro's (Buddy etc), then I think he will start getting a few upper 4* kids maybe a 5*. Year in and Year out yes those Blue Blood schools do well, but that doesn't mean that OU can't be successful in the tourney year in and year out and put teams together that make a run to the final four.

 

[usedtobe1]

When Sampson left, he had assembled a pretty good class. Fell apart when he left Indiana and Capel couldn't convince them to all stay. I think once Billy Tubbs got hot he had some kids like Webster that were top recruits. Oklahoma is not a top 10 basketball destination year in and year out. But when a coach has success here he can start getting those top tier kids. Those kids think they are one or two years from pro's. They want to know a coach can get them to the pro's, develop them, and win. As Kruger has success, if he stays and I hope he does, has some players get in the pro's (Buddy etc), then I think he will start getting a few upper 4* kids maybe a 5*. Year in and Year out yes those Blue Blood schools do well, but that doesn't mean that OU can't be successful in the tourney year in and year out and put teams together that make a run to the final four.

That was a good recruiting class. They were ranked the #4 or 5 recruiting class in the nation, and all 5 signees were rated in the Top 75. Damion James, Scottie Reynolds, and Jeremy Mayfield eventually all opted out of their OU LOI after Sampson left. Keith Clark (who later flunked out) and Tony Crocker were the only ones who stayed with the Sooners.

Sooner 2005-2006 Basketball Class

 

[jerry]

You never know out of high school. For example Buddy as said above was #86 out of HS and Warren was rated higher. Guess who the better college player will be. Buddy!!!

 

[WaymanFan]

There's 80 starters on sweet 16 teams. It's a reasonable assumption that to be a legitimate sweet 16 team you need 5 top 75 recruits on your roster.

The track record of cobbling together sub 100 recruits into a legit team is poor. This is why Sampson was Mr. 1 and done most years.

Prior to that head-scratching post, I was actually in agreement with SOME of what you were saying. Yes, Lon needs to win this March. He needs to win a game or two in both the conference tournament and the NCAA Tournament. Also, I believe we would all prefer a higher rated recruiting class to a lower-rated one. No argument from me.

However, what excites me the most about Coach Kruger is his ability to EVALUATE TALENT. He does that better than almost any coach in America. There was some demand for Buddy Hield, but not a whole lot for Isiah Cousins or Frank Booker. I'm guessing some of these new guys will turn out to be studs as well. That's Coach Kruger's strength. He's not going to get many top-50 guys...never has.

What is funny about all these recruiting rankings is they just haven't been remotely applicable when it comes to our Sooners. The most decorated recruiting classes may have come in 2003, 2006 and 2009. In 2003, Coach Sampson inked several studs in Burger Boy Drew Lavender, Brandon Foust, Lawrence MacKenzie, and a couple of others. It was a top 5 class nationally. How did it turn out? The 2006 class was posted on this thread...another highly rated class. Finally, how about the 2009 class, the only one in school history that brought us 2 Burger Boys?

Recruiting classes are judged after eligibility is used up. I don't believe the 1983 class was a top 20 rated class, but it was the most productive in school history...and the only one which Coach Tubbs went with just the high school route. Had Mark Wade stayed, it would have been our version of the Fab 5 - Wade (PG), Tim McCallister (SG), Dave Sieger (SF), Darryl Kennedy (PF) and Dave Johnson (C). Now THAT was a recruiting class...and it makes no difference to this day whether it was ranked #1 or #101.

 

[campbest]

History also shows, you need to have at least one 5* player to win a title and/or at least one NBA level player to win a championship.

This isn't a bash on Lon, I think he'll get one eventually, but historically this has been the case for almost 20 years.

 

[atlantasooner]

I think it's been pretty established by everyone (scouts, NBA guys) that saw Buddy this summer against the best of his peers that Buddy is an NBA prospect.

 

[DenverSooner]

Recruiting classes are judged after eligibility is used up. I don't believe the 1983 class was a top 20 rated class, but it was the most productive in school history...and the only one which Coach Tubbs went with just the high school route. Had Mark Wade stayed, it would have been our version of the Fab 5 - Wade (PG), Tim McCallister (SG), Dave Sieger (SF), Darryl Kennedy (PF) and Dave Johnson (C). Now THAT was a recruiting class...and it makes no difference to this day whether it was ranked #1 or #101.

Do you mean Mark Price or am I not familiar with Mark Wade?

 

[bocabull]

What is funny about all these recruiting rankings is they just haven't been remotely applicable when it comes to our Sooners. The most decorated recruiting classes may have come in 2003, 2006 and 2009. In 2003, Coach Sampson inked several studs in Burger Boy Drew Lavender, Brandon Foust, Lawrence MacKenzie, and a couple of others. It was a top 5 class nationally. How did it turn out? The 2006 class was posted on this thread...another highly rated class. Finally, how about the 2009 class, the only one in school history that brought us 2 Burger Boys?

Recruiting classes are judged after eligibility is used up.

Actually recruiting rankings have been extremely accurate predictors of our success. The Capel elite 8 team had, Warren (10), Griffin (23), Johnson (53) Crocker (80) starting. 4 guys ranked higher than anybody on our roster and anybody coming in.

What we have learned is that the burger boys we have landed outside of the local studs Tisdale, Humphrey, Griffin all had serious warts. We probably only got them because the top programs stayed away.

 

[AdaSooner]

Do you mean Mark Price or am I not familiar with Mark Wade?

I think Mark Wade was a point guard out of California Tubbs signed that year. As I recall, he didn't play much and got booted off of the team long before the season was over.

 

[Sooner04]

I think Mark Wade was a point guard out of California Tubbs signed that year. As I recall, he didn't play much and got booted off of the team long before the season was over.

I don't believe he was booted. He was just unhappy as far as I've ever been told.

He ended up transferring to UNLV and was the starting PG on their 1987 Final Four team with Armon Gilliam, Jarvis Basnight and Freddie Banks. For a long time, and it may still be true, Mark Wade held the record for the most assists in a Final Four game.

 

[AdaSooner]

Actually recruiting rankings have been extremely accurate predictors of our success. The Capel elite 8 team had, Warren (10), Griffin (23), Johnson (53) Crocker (80) starting. 4 guys ranked higher than anybody on our roster and anybody coming in.

What we have learned is that the burger boys we have landed outside of the local studs Tisdale, Humphrey, Griffin all had serious warts. We probably only got them because the top programs stayed away.

And, therein lies the problem. Like it or not, OU is a football school. Sure, we get lucky on occasion and sign a high-profile recruit the top programs shy away from, or a local kid like the three you named. But on the whole, OU's coaches have always had to win games with transfers, late bloomers, or by guessing right on a kid the other programs overlooked. Kruger excels in all three. He has to because he has no choice. Our former coach thought he could turn OU into a Duke southwest, and we all know how that turned out.

Why not give Kruger credit for the job he's doing at a school that has always struggled with bringing in top tier talent? Doesn't mean we should stop trying, we just need to face the reality that it may not happen too often.

As for me, I would much rather see our coach put an exciting team of good kids on the floor, who are at OU for all of the right reasons, than to go through what was the worst period of my life as a fan in Capel's last two years. If that's what it takes to sign another burger boy, thanks but no thanks!

 

[AdaSooner]

I don't believe he was booted. He was just unhappy as far as I've ever been told.

He ended up transferring to UNLV and was the starting PG on their 1987 Final Four team with Armon Gilliam, Jarvis Basnight and Freddie Banks. For a long time, and it may still be true, Mark Wade held the record for the most assists in a Final Four game.

I'm sure you're right, 04. I have an excuse for my bad memory. I'm old, you know.

 

[Speedy17]

I'm sure you're right, 04. I have an excuse for my bad memory. I'm old, you know.

Mark Wade got mad because Tommy Tubbs was ahead of him on the depth chart. I had the bad experience of trying to cover him in an intramural game. He went to UNLV and became the national all time record holder for assists.

 

[WaymanFan]

Actually recruiting rankings have been extremely accurate predictors of our success. The Capel elite 8 team had, Warren (10), Griffin (23), Johnson (53) Crocker (80) starting. 4 guys ranked higher than anybody on our roster and anybody coming in.

Yes, but Buddy Hield is better than 3 of the 4 guys you listed above. Also, you mentioned our 2009 team, but our 13-18 team in 2010 had much more impressive numbers in regards to top 100 players.

Also, our best team ever was the 1988 team - no Burger Boys. Our second best was 2002 - no Burger Boys, no NBA players. Our only season which we finished the pre-Tournament #1 ranked in the country was 1990 - no Burger Boys, no NBA players.

As for Mark Wade, the #1 reason I wish he stuck around was because he might have been the difference in OU going to the Final Four in 1985. The #1 weakness on that team was not having a true PG. Tim McCallister and Linwood Davis shared that role, but TMac was much better off the ball. We needed a guy like Wade on that team.

 

[usedtobe1]

Update

I'm sure you're right, 04. I have an excuse for my bad memory. I'm old, you know.

After leaving OU, Mark Wade transferred to his hometown El Camino (Cal) juco before eventually transferring to UNLV to play for the "Tark". Wade set a single season record for number of assists in 86-87 (406). He then entered the NBA where he played parts of 2 seasons.

I remember it was a big loss for OU when he transferred even though he didn't play much the 1st year. The Sooners wanted him to be more patient and wait his time..... and get his game ready for D1.

He then was an assistant D1 coach for a couple of years and then ran into legal problems. He was convicted of embezzlement and put on 3 years of probation thus ending his coaching career.

Mark Wade Wiki

Here's an article on why he transferred from OU.

Mark Wade Transfer

 

[KBaden145]

And, therein lies the problem. Like it or not, OU is a football school. Sure, we get lucky on occasion and sign a high-profile recruit the top programs shy away from, or a local kid like the three you named. But on the whole, OU's coaches have always had to win games with transfers, late bloomers, or by guessing right on a kid the other programs overlooked. Kruger excels in all three. He has to because he has no choice. Our former coach thought he could turn OU into a Duke southwest, and we all know how that turned out.



Why not give Kruger credit for the job he's doing at a school that has always struggled with bringing in top tier talent? Doesn't mean we should stop trying, we just need to face the reality that it may not happen too often.



As for me, I would much rather see our coach put an exciting team of good kids on the floor, who are at OU for all of the right reasons, than to go through what was the worst period of my life as a fan in Capel's last two years. If that's what it takes to sign another burger boy, thanks but no thanks!

"If you don't get a guy you are recruiting it's ok. He will only beat you once or twice a year. If you get the wrong guy he'll beat ya everyday"

Bob Huggins


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[campbest]

Also, our best team ever was the 1988 team - no Burger Boys. Our second best was 2002 - no Burger Boys, no NBA players. Our only season which we finished the pre-Tournament #1 ranked in the country was 1990 - no Burger Boys, no NBA players.

Not to take away from 2002, but the margin here is very thin when you look at the tournament success. 2002 OU had to beat a 12 seed Mizzou in the Regional Final to move on, where as 2009 had to play the eventual national champions (and most dominant team that year by far). Blake doesn't miss two games with an injury, there is no question 2009 would be viewed in a more favorable light.

I would take 2009 OU simply because a lot of the time in basketball, a once in a generation player will trump the pieces around him. That's what Blake was.

 

[DenverSooner]

"If you don't get a guy you are recruiting it's ok. He will only beat you once or twice a year. If you get the wrong guy he'll beat ya everyday"

Bob Huggins


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a great line.