Meyer's mailbag addresses OSU recruiting philosophy

[Seymore Cox]

Expecting turnover
Coach Travis Ford has a full roster this year with only one senior and one junior (James Anderson who says he is leaving for the NBA after this season), yet he has five signees for next year. How is he going to do this? Just run some kids off?

-- Craig from Stillwater
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Travis Ford's roster could look different next season.
Obviously, a program does not have to have an available scholarship to sign a prospect. And in some cases, Coaches do run players off. In the vast majority of cases, however, players run themselves off.

Especially in today's contemporary game, there is a high rate of turnover in college basketball programs. At last count there are already 26 Division I transfers in this early season. You can count on that number increasing greatly by the time the next school year arrives.

Today's players typically have very little patience when it comes to playing time. They want to play early, and they want to play a lot. After a year of riding the pine and then seeing that they are clearly being recruited over, they see the writing on the wall and are more than willing to move on to sometimes greener pastures.

Also, academic casualties open up roster spots on both ends of this equation. Players will have to leave school because of inadequate academic performance. Also, recruits will fail to qualify and have to go to junior college or prep school. In fact, Oklahoma State experienced this in its 2009 recruiting class when four-star prospect Karron Johnson failed to qualify.

It isn't necessarily typical to oversign at the level Oklahoma State has in 2010, but oversigning is not uncommon. A coach worth his salt knows the lay of the land with his program, and these situations always seem to work themselves out in the end.

Meyer's basically gave a BS answer to this question. I agree it's commonplace to oversign. However, the tact in which Ford does it is not to my liking and not commonplace. To offer a post player a scholarship when you have one elite post player coming in, one probably starter in Pilgrim returning, another 4 in Franklin returning, a philosphy of playing 4 guards which guarantees Olukemi PT at the 4, really show that you're showing Shaw, Walker, Akol, and Dowell the door.

 

[Dignon003]

Ford played a more conventional lineup at UMASS.

I expect some roster turnover, obi and Anderson are leaving. Shaw has moved ahead of walker and Akol. Reger Dowell has also fallen behind the other PGs. Sidorakis' injuries might make him a roster casualty as well.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Ford played a more conventional lineup at UMASS.

I expect some roster turnover, obi and Anderson are leaving. Shaw has moved ahead of walker and Akol. Reger Dowell has also fallen behind the other PGs. Sidorakis' injuries might make him a roster casualty as well.

I understand the business of basketball and that Ford has to put the best lineup out there. If he does turnover all three post players, that's a little coldblooded to me. If those guys choose to on their own or it's apparent they will choose to, then I have no problem with it. I think the bigger thing it shows is that he didn't evaluate Akol, Walker, and Shaw very well. To strike out on one or two is one thing, but all three is another. As for dowell, I think offering him was just a strategy that he had of throwing 4 pgs against the wall and seeing who sticks. Three stuck and he fell off.

 

[PasoPoke]

It's just a matter of time before Capel does something similar. But I'm sure that won't be called unethical, it will be hailed as the smartest move in coaching history.

If anyone thinks Coach Capel and his staff are not trying like crazy to recruit over players they are living in a dream world. Any serious D-1 program is going after the best players they can find and will not turn down a player who can improve the team even if it means someone has to go.

Players would rather transfer than sit on the bench. As long as the coach is straight with everyone I don't see any problem with it.

 

[Dignon003]

The three roster casualties IMO will be Akol, Dowell and Sidorakis

 

[coolm]

there was a time when I thought this was a HORRID tactic. then I discussed it with a couple of coaches and players and my attitude did a complete 180.

first - that player who barely rated getting a ship in the first place now has a year at a major D1 program under his belt and can often easily slide into another spot elsewhere...either at another D1 school (and wait for eligibility) or at a lower division school where he can play immediately. He actually becomes more "marketable" around the world of college basketball.

second - those that dont give a crap about school ... it really doesn't matter to them anyway bc they just wanna play ball. IF they kept eligibility then they picked up some college credits and connections that might help them later. If they do care about school then they knocked out another year of credits on scholarship. Win-Win.

Most of the time it's not a case of student X who was a fan of that school all his life and is now being thrown out for someone else. It's more like a minor league baseball player trying to finish out the season and rake in the benefits that occur.

 

[PasoPoke]

I think Dowell was given a chance because there was a scholly available and it helped secure a couple of teammates.

He is obviously behind Penn and Gulley so unless he really improves I can see him transferring to a mid-major and being a pretty good player.

He got his chance and was able to practice against some really strong players.

I think coolm makes some really good points.

 

[brettromar]

It's just a matter of time before Capel does something similar. But I'm sure that won't be called unethical, it will be hailed as the smartest move in coaching history.

If anyone thinks Coach Capel and his staff are not trying like crazy to recruit over players they are living in a dream world. Any serious D-1 program is going after the best players they can find and will not turn down a player who can improve the team even if it means someone has to go.

Players would rather transfer than sit on the bench. As long as the coach is straight with everyone I don't see any problem with it.

I think this is crap. I think Jeff is trying to recruit over guys, however he is not out there trying to sign guy when he doesn't have spots for them. Does Jeff have 3 guys committed right now for scholarships that are not there? Are you just guessing he wll do the same because Travis likes to? Why have we not heard about Jeff out offering and recruiting all these new guys to fill take spots that are not there?

If Jeff does this, then I will say the same thing about him. I think he does things the right way and have heard that from several other people at his level. I have heard the opposite about little Travis. He works hard, however the "right way" is not used when discusssing his way of doing things.

 

[coolm]

How is a spot "not there"? A scholarship offer expires ANNUALLY.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I posted it because I think it is a really thought provoking topic. A coach has to put a good product on the floor which means getting the most talent. However their is an ethical obligation that should be explored when dealing with basically kids that you have convinced to come to your program.

 

[PasoPoke]

I think this is crap. I think Jeff is trying to recruit over guys, however he is not out there trying to sign guy when he doesn't have spots for them. Does Jeff have 3 guys committed right now for scholarships that are not there? Are you just guessing he wll do the same because Travis likes to? Why have we not heard about Jeff out offering and recruiting all these new guys to fill take spots that are not there?

If Jeff does this, then I will say the same thing about him. I think he does things the right way and have heard that from several other people at his level. I have heard the opposite about little Travis. He works hard, however the "right way" is not used when discusssing his way of doing things.

May I ask whom you heard this negative information from regarding "little Travis"? I bet it's a real reliable source like another OU fan.

I don't believe 99% of the negative stuff I read on a msg board. Fans always believe their coach and team are as pure as driven snow and their rivals are all devil worshipping scum, when the truth is there is barely any difference in the way most teams conduct their business.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Really, my only issue is that it is working to get promises from kids [to come to your school] and then being so blatant about recruiting over them. There are at least three kids currently at oSu with their head on the chopping block [whether they want it to be or not] and that is a pretty crappy thing to do to somebody. I know that sports is percieved as a "business" by many, but these young men are not professionals and should not be treated as such.

 

[Seymore Cox]

May I ask whom you heard this negative information from regarding "little Travis"? I bet it's a real reliable source like another OU fan.

I don't believe 99% of the negative stuff I read on a msg board. Fans always believe their coach and team are as pure as driven snow and their rivals are all devil worshipping scum, when the truth is there is barely any difference in the way most teams conduct their business.

Then leave.

It's obvious that Ford is getting rid of players. It's not obvious that Capel is.

 

[InTheKnow]

I posted it because I think it is a really thought provoking topic. A coach has to put a good product on the floor which means getting the most talent. However their is an ethical obligation that should be explored when dealing with basically kids that you have convinced to come to your program.

A very thought-provoking topic.

Coaches at this level should be striving for championships, otherwise, I don't want them as a coach at my school. These kind of expectations also put the coach's head on the chopping block. And, like you said, the coach has to put the best product on the floor he can.

Having said that, I wouldn't want my coach out lying to recruits and promising them everything just to get that signature. But I don't have a problem with a coach telling a guy that he's gonna need to move on or he'll be on the pine his entire career. I suppose it's a balance every coach has to walk.

Also, some of the responsibility needs to be put on the players. I can think of a few players we've recruited - that ended up on the pine at places like Kansas when, IMO, they would have been on the floor for us most of their careers.

What sucks is when the NCAA makes a player sit out after a transfer.

 

[earlpearl]

I think ships should be honored period. There are exceptions of course such as poor behavior etc. That being said if a coach is honest with a player and tells him that he will not play during his career and the kid decides to move on then so be it.

As far as Ford is concerned nobody on this board knows what is going on in OSU's program. Of that I am quite sure so all your speculation is just that speculation.

 

[ByronHoustonsSweatyPalms]

Akol missed tonights game due to "personal reasons".

 

[earlpearl]

Akol missed tonights game due to "personal reasons".

What about Pilgrim? He is suppose to be sick, but this time of year a player sitting always makes you wonder.

 

[HoHum]

What about Pilgrim? He is suppose to be sick, but this time of year a player sitting always makes you wonder.

He was in street clothes. While Akol was MIA. I wouldn't worry about Pilgrim.

 

[InTheKnow]

The three roster casualties IMO will be Akol, Dowell and Sidorakis

Ford has said that he wasn't sure if Akol would even be able to play at this level. Pure speculation, be I would imagine that Akol knows he's on the edge.

Regardless, it's hard for me to think of Akol as a roster casualty.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Akol is another example of why you shouldn't just offer a scholarship for the sakes of filling a position.