My experience at Creighton....

[campbest]

I don't like the complaining either but I don't get why the rules changes would make OU have more fouls?

Do you know what the rules emphasis are?

 

[bocabull]

Whining about the officials ...zzzzzzzzzzzz ....

 

[DenverSooner]

Do you know what the rules emphasis are?

Hand checking and other contact on the drive. OU should actually benefit from it

 

[TINY]

haha "coddled". Gimme a break.

I didn't quote anyone, just commented on the nature this thread has taken. Under the rules emphasis the past two years, it makes perfect sense why OU would have more fouls.

Fouls / non-calls are missed on both ends, this game was no different...had nothing to do with the outcome.

Let me first say that I have never seen Skyvue play the bad officiating card since I've been on here. When Sky is this adamant, you know it was beyond egregious.

I agree that the rules emphasis on hand checking should increase the fouls against ou. It should increase the fouls of every team. In this game you saw what happened when they used the new rules on one side of the court only for 30 of the 40 minutes. How can their 2 guards (who played the most minutes of anyone all night) have 0 fouls in 75 minutes? They had 4 steals combined, so they were most definitely "hacking" as Waylon called it..

If you want to say that ou should have won regardless of the officiating, I agree 100%, in this particular game. To say that the officials have no effect on the outcome is simply wrong, though. The Oregon onside kick game ring a bell? Or the USA - Russia basketball game?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Do you know what the rules emphasis are?

Yeah. Calling things tighter on the parameter

 

[AdaSooner]

Jays fan here. Just wanted to echo what an earlier poster noted. Creighton fans in general were pumped to get this game, because it never would have happened if we were still in the MVC days. I think most fans would agreee that the Big East will never be what it was, but I think "sad shell" is a stretch. It's still a solid league.

Anyways, we respect the heck out of Lon Kruger, and you guys are going to have a great year. Hield and Thomas are big-time players, and Spangler is a guy anyone would want on their squad. Hard-nosed player who works his tail off. Athletically you had an advantage at just about every spot except for the point. Luckily for us Chatman was able to capitalize on that and get our crowd back into it. The crowd certainly carried us. Looking forward to the return game in Norman.

Good luck the rest of the way. We'll certainly be pulling for you up in Omaha.

Classy post, Flyjays! Feel free to stop by anytime you have a chance. Your crowd definitely helped, but your players wanted it more in the second half.

 

[campbest]

Let me first say that I have never seen Skyvue play the bad officiating card since I've been on here. When Sky is this adamant, you know it was beyond egregious.

Not sure if serious

I agree that the rules emphasis on hand checking should increase the fouls against ou. It should increase the fouls of every team. In this game you saw what happened when they used the new rules on one side of the court only for 30 of the 40 minutes. How can their 2 guards (who played the most minutes of anyone all night) have 0 fouls in 75 minutes? They had 4 steals combined, so they were most definitely "hacking" as Waylon called it.

Marginal vs. illegal contact - there is a difference. Because an offensive player experiences contact does not make it a foul.

If you want to say that ou should have won regardless of the officiating, I agree 100%, in this particular game. To say that the officials have no effect on the outcome is simply wrong, though. The Oregon onside kick game ring a bell? Or the USA - Russia basketball game?

Where did I say that? Missed calls during the duration of the game even out, it's the final two minutes where a kick call or swallowed whistle can effect the outcome. None of which applies here...it was a 17pt second half lead.

 

[skyvue]

Let me first say that I have never seen Skyvue play the bad officiating card since I've been on here. When Sky is this adamant, you know it was beyond egregious.

You're very kind to say so, but I'll admit that I do play that card sometimes.

I find basketball officiating at the college level very frustrating. It can definitely impact a game, more than in any other sport. Why? Because a player who gets two fouls in the first half has to change his approach, and if those fouls are of the ticky-tack (or even the phantom) variety, that's a damn shame. A team that plays hawking defense, but finds itself with a nitpicky bunch of officials has to change its style.

And I said it before but I stand by it: I've never seen a team legitimately go more than 11 minutes without fouling. That those 11 minutes were when CU made their comeback is no coincidence. That's not to say that we didn't play poorly for much of that span or that CU didn't play well, but us getting a trip or two to the line might have made a big difference during those 11 minutes. Instead, they were given a free pass covering more than a quarter of the game, and just when they needed it most.

The mere fact that it's an accepted hoops axiom that the home team will get the breaks from the officials proves the point. What kind of nonsense is that? There's a home field advantage in football, too, but it's not related to the officiating. No one ever says, "Well, it's understood that the home team will be penalized less than the visiting team. That's just the way it is," while watching a football game (or baseball, for that matter, or any other sport you can name). The officials are expected to call the game evenly, and no excuses. But not in basketball.

 

[scrybe]

Not sure if serious



Marginal vs. illegal contact - there is a difference. Because an offensive player experiences contact does not make it a foul.



Where did I say that? Missed calls during the duration of the game even out, it's the final two minutes where a kick call or swallowed whistle can effect the outcome. None of which applies here...it was a 17pt second half lead.

Actually it was an 18-point lead. Just sayin'…

 

[campbest]

Yeah. Calling things tighter on the parameter

OU is not a get to the basket type of team (yet)...I expect that to change as the season progresses. Spangler took three 3's, Thomas was facing up, stuff like that. Creighton isn't going to get up under you as a defender and force the issue, they don't want to dictate what you do on the defensive end. Given their roster this year, I think they will struggle in conference because they're stuck in w/o an identity...they were very lucky to win this game, OU shot themselves in the foot.

 

[AdaSooner]

Not sure if serious



Marginal vs. illegal contact - there is a difference. Because an offensive player experiences contact does not make it a foul.



Where did I say that? Missed calls during the duration of the game even out, it's the final two minutes where a kick call or swallowed whistle can effect the outcome. None of which applies here...it was a 17pt second half lead.

Missed calls during the duration of the game even out, it's the final two minutes where a kick call or swallowed whistle can effect the outcome. None of which applies here...it was a 17pt second half lead.

Nothing I disagree with, I'll just add one thing. Marginal calls play a bigger role in balancing the officiating scale, because they usually favor the home team. For example, an "incidental" bump during a shot try on one end is called a foul on the other. Those calls add up over time, which is one of the reasons home teams sometimes, but not always, have the advantage. A familiar environment and crowd support is even more important. IMO, Creighton's crowd and OU's failure to respond were the keys to their comeback.

Having said that, the officiating was not why OU lost. Our kids came out flat offensively in the second half and failed to step up their intensity on defense when the Jays started their run. That's a recipe disaster when you're on the road.

 

[BigTime]

The big east is absolutely a sad shell of itself. Used to be the SEC of Cbb (had all the media hype/spin as well. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in frontier land (or a homer fan).

 

[skyvue]

Our kids came out flat offensively in the second half and failed to step up their intensity on defense when the Jays started their run. That's a recipe disaster when you're on the road.

I partially disagree, Ada. I thought we came out very well in the second half -- we quickly built our lead by seven points.

But a couple of plays went CU's way (I can't remember the specifics just now) and it felt immediately as if they were back in it, even though we still had a double-digit lead.

It was in part because of the crowd, for sure, and CU's shooters definitely stepped up when they had their opening, but even so, it was one of the strangest and quickest turnarounds in momentum that I've ever seen.

It was kind of like a heavyweight fight in which the champ is dominating for ten rounds, but the challenger gets in one good shot in the 11th, stunning the champ and leaving him dazed. It's often said a fighter has a "puncher's chance." Well, CU got in that one punch, if you will, that totally changed the course of the game. If we were to play that second half ten times, we'd win nine of them, I'm convinced, but this time, we were totally thrown by that out-of-the-blue "punch" that landed and we never really got our legs under us again.

It was a very frustrating loss, and I'm more than ready for Sunday's game to get here so as to rid myself of the memory of it.

 

[AdaSooner]

I partially disagree, Ada. I thought we came out very well in the second half -- we quickly built our lead by seven points.

But a couple of plays went CU's way (I can't remember the specifics just now) and it felt immediately as if they were back in it, even though we still had a double-digit lead.

It was in part because of the crowd, for sure, and CU's shooters definitely stepped up when they had their opening, but even so, it was one of the strangest and quickest turnarounds in momentum that I've ever seen.

It was kind of like a heavyweight fight in which the champ is dominating for ten rounds, but the challenger gets in one good shot in the 11th, stunning the champ and leaving him dazed. It's often said a fighter has a "puncher's chance." Well, CU got in that one punch, if you will, that totally changed the course of the game. If we were to play that second half ten times, we'd win nine of them, I'm convinced, but this time, we were totally thrown by that out-of-the-blue "punch" that landed and we never really got our legs under us again.

It was a very frustrating loss, and I'm more than ready for Sunday's game to get here so as to rid myself of the memory of it.

Sky, momentum is as fickle in basketball as any sport I can think of. Lose it, and it's hard to get it back. The key is to stop the opponent's big runs by stepping up your defense or by calling a time out. I have to agree with those who said Kruger may have missed the boat on that count. But when you have what is essentially a veteran team with four players back from last year, plus a senior transfer in Thomas, I can see why LK might have relied on their experience a little too much.

I said on another thread that this team hasn't had a vocal leader like Romero in the last two years. Ro was like a coach on the floor. He wasn't afraid to get in his teammates' face during the huddle to let them know when they needed to pick up the pace.

Buddy is as close as anyone, I suppose. He's definitely not quiet or shy. But, when he is not leading by example (see his second half slump), his words may fall on deaf ears when the chips are down. I don't know that to be the case. What I'm saying is that there is no clear-cut vocal leader on this team that I have seen. I would like to see Spangler or Thomas or both assume that role.

 

[skyvue]

Sky, momentum is as fickle in basketball as any sport I can think of. Lose it, and it's hard to get it back.

At this risk of upsetting Campbest again, I will say that a couple of trips to the free throw line can help a team that's trying to stem an opponent's run and preserve a lead. That's why I posted before about CU not being called for a single foul in the first 11 minutes of the second half. There's no telling how just two or three whistles over that span might have slowed their comeback, especially if the Sooners were shooting two.