My thoughts on POY and COY

[Sooner81]

TY still deserves the award. Graham is a real fine player BUT he doesn’t face double and triple teams every night and defenses designed to stop him AND he plays with McDonalds All Americans all around him unlike TY. AND his averages with all these advantages are 17 and 7 vs. TY’s 29 and 9. No brainer in my mind - the award is not to the best player on the best team, it is the BEST PLAYER.

On COY, no possible way I give it to Self. He “picks” his players and leads a program that is a national blue blood in a conference with no other basketball schools just football schools. He SHOULD win the league every year with all those adavantages and 16,000 butts in the seats every night. Let’s also see if there are skeletons in their closest as the FBI is looking at them.
I give it to Tech’s coach. To do what he has done in the outpost is very impressive.

Thoughts, no hatred please just thoughts on the topic Thanks!!

 

[WichitaSooner]

TY still deserves the award. Graham is a real fine player BUT he doesn’t face double and triple teams every night and defenses designed to stop him AND he plays with McDonalds All Americans all around him unlike TY. AND his averages with all these advantages are 17 and 7 vs. TY’s 29 and 9. No brainer in my mind - the award is not to the best player on the best team, it is the BEST PLAYER.

On COY, no possible way I give it to Self. He “picks” his players and leads a program that is a national blue blood in a conference with no other basketball schools just football schools. He SHOULD win the league every year with all those adavantages and 16,000 butts in the seats every night. Let’s also see if there are skeletons in their closest as the FBI is looking at them.
I give it to Tech’s coach. To do what he has done in the outpost is very impressive.

Thoughts, no hatred please just thoughts on the topic Thanks!!

KU has one more McDonald's All American playing this year than OU does. There are years when it would be valid to say his roster is far and away better than anyone else in the league. This year, the talent gap isn't nearly as big. Heck, all sorts of people on this board said OU was more talented this year. I notice that talk has stopped lately lol.

Also, look at how he develops his players. Check out where Graham and Frank Mason were ranked coming out of high school. Far from blue chip kids.

I hate KU more than anyone, but Self clearly deserves the award this year. He will win the league by multiple games in a season that most people say is the deepest in conference history.

 

[BCSooners]

KU has one more McDonald's All American playing this year than OU does. There are years when it would be valid to say his roster is far and away better than anyone else in the league. This year, the talent gap isn't nearly as big. Heck, all sorts of people on this board said OU was more talented this year. I notice that talk has stopped lately lol.

Also, look at how he develops his players. Check out where Graham and Frank Mason were ranked coming out of high school. Far from blue chip kids.

I hate KU more than anyone, but Self clearly deserves the award this year. He will win the league by multiple games in a season that most people say is the deepest in conference history.

Graham was a top 40 player.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Trae gets POTY. Beard should get any coach of the year in big 12 league awards

 

[OrlandoSooner]

Trae for POY and and Beard for COY.

 

[MercedeSooner]

Probably is Self’s best coaching job but when you win that many conf titles in a row it doesn’t have the same effect.

 

[coolm]

Trae gets newcomer of the year and the naismith

graham gets big-12 poy

beard gets coy in big-12 and the country.

 

[SoonerSpock]

Trae gets newcomer of the year and the naismith

graham gets big-12 poy

beard gets coy in big-12 and the country.

+1

But I am not certain Trae gets the Naismith or the Wooden. He has not helped himself the last ten games. Definitely not a lock.

 

[opsooner]

Defense matters even though there there are no great stats for guards other than steals. Clutch time execution matters. Graham has a big edge to me in those areas. Yes, he has the advantage of better players around him but not that much better. He has the advantage of better coaching and of being older as well but that is just the way it goes.

TY gets all newcomer and freshman awards. He might even get Naismith. However, I see conference POY as the guy who did the most to help his team win games within the conference. I give it to Graham.


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[Sooner81]

KU has one more McDonald's All American playing this year than OU does. There are years when it would be valid to say his roster is far and away better than anyone else in the league. This year, the talent gap isn't nearly as big. Heck, all sorts of people on this board said OU was more talented this year. I notice that talk has stopped lately lol.

Also, look at how he develops his players. Check out where Graham and Frank Mason were ranked coming out of high school. Far from blue chip kids.

I hate KU more than anyone, but Self clearly deserves the award this year. He will win the league by multiple games in a season that most people say is the deepest in conference history.

I disagree with this. The rest of the league would have loved to have every one of the KU players and you cant say the same in reverse. And if he doesn’t have superior talent it is HIS fault. They don’t go after 3 stars only 4 and 5 and you can only blame Self for talent failures. And like one of the other posters said, Graham was top 40. Still TY for POY and Beard for COY imo.

 

[TheGimper]

Where did this Kansas has less talent narrative even come from? Why does anyone believe that?

Every player that starts or gets meaningful bench minutes was a 4 or 5 star in high school. Literally no other team in the conference can say that or has anything close to it.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Where did this Kansas has less talent narrative even come from? Why does anyone believe that?

Every player that starts or gets meaningful bench minutes was a 4 or 5 star in high school. Literally no other team in the conference can say that or has anything close to it.

I don't know when it started, but I know that a few weeks ago on this very board, some were suggesting we should root for KU at West Virginia because it was the "worst KU team in years" and WVA was a bigger threat to win the league. Others also proclaimed Tech the best team after they won in Lawrence. I said all along that was ridiculous and predicted that KU would win the league by at least two games. But it seems every year, everyone thinks KU is vulnerable when they lose a game or two early. Then they turn around at the end of the season and imply that KU has so much talent that anyone could coach them to the league title.

But the fact remains, they don't have any lottery picks on this year's team, and might not even have a first rounder. Newman and Doke might become that eventually, but not this year. And for everyone who thinks that Self shouldn't get much credit because winning the league should be easy with their talent, I guess you all think Coach K sucks, because his team is far and away the most talented in the country, yet they will finish four games out of first, behind a Virginia team that doesn't have a single player that would likely crack Duke's rotation. Again, no one hates KU as much as I do, but to always diminish Self is ridiculous. I don't see Duke, Carolina, Kentucky, etc., winning 14 in a row.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Where did this Kansas has less talent narrative even come from? Why does anyone believe that?

Every player that starts or gets meaningful bench minutes was a 4 or 5 star in high school. Literally no other team in the conference can say that or has anything close to it.

This. Their bench would start for us at 4 positions

 

[Matthew G]

Trae gets newcomer of the year and the naismith

graham gets big-12 poy

beard gets coy in big-12 and the country.

Not sure how Beard is going to beat Tony Bennett (Virginia) for COY in the country.


How it will be

Trae = newcomer of the year

Graham = Big 12 POY

Beard = Big 12 COY

Brunson = Naismith

Bennett = COY


How it should be

Trae = Big 12 POY, Newcomer, and Naismith

Beard = Big 12 COY

Bennett = COY

 

[SoonerSpock]

Not sure how Beard is going to beat Tony Bennett (Virginia) for COY in the country.


How it will be

Trae = newcomer of the year

Graham = Big 12 POY

Beard = Big 12 COY

Brunson = Naismith

Bennett = COY


How it should be

Trae = Big 12 POY, Newcomer, and Naismith

Beard = Big 12 COY

Bennett = COY

Your crimson colored glasses are too thick they have impaired you vision.

 

[coolm]

didnt tony bennett get it a couple of years ago? if not then you're right. I didnt even think about him. good call.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Your crimson colored glasses are too thick they have impaired you vision.

Why? That's how it should and might be

 

[WichitaSooner]

This. Their bench would start for us at 4 positions

Seeing as how they play bench players at exactly two positions, you must go to a lot of KU practices and be impressed by their other guys!

 

[Matthew G]

Your crimson colored glasses are too thick they have impaired you vision.

Not really. It's more my analytic thinking, and going by analytics, Trae has been the POY. Ignoring analytics, and going by win shares, Jock Landale of Saint Mary's would be the POY. Using analytics and win shares, Trae is still the POY. Brunson in this case comes in 4th to 5th, but he'll likely win it.


FWIW, Analyics plus win share also said Buddy wasn't the POY when he won it, although it's skewed because I couldn't find pre-tournament results, which is when they vote. Using to the best of my knowledge, that year was a 3 player race in the analyitc plus win share, where Buddy, Brogdon, and Brice Johnson were all similar.

 

[Matthew G]

This. Their bench would start for us at 4 positions

This isn't true, considering they play like 3 guys off the bench. Lightfoot would not start here, Garrett probably wouldn't either. Cuncliff definitely wouldn't. They have no one else after those 3, so you can't even find 4 guys off their bench to start.

As for the original post, yes, KU is more talented than OU. KU has probably 2 2nd round picks this year in Svi and Vick. Devonte is probably a sleeper 2nd rounder, so that's 3 2nd round picks. That ignore the fact that Udoka is just a huge body down low that can bully everyone and Newman was a 5 star recruit who will likely go in the NBA draft next year.