Thoughts on the game

[cowboysooner]

Tiny and nc covered most of my reasoning. Btw, I didn’t say and don’t think he hit it out of the park. Just think that considering everything he did a reasonably good job. He isn’t on the hot seat in my mind. Who knows what joe thinks.

 

[OULad]

To be fair to PM, we got screwed out of the tournament last year.

 

[Soonerinkc]

For me I kind of agree on the first two years but nit everyone here wants to hear it. Some people are convinced he sucks no matter what he does. They do so to the point of dismissing where the program was when he took over, when he took the job, the effect of the portal and the newness of NIL.

None of those thing excuses every mistake PM made but collectively they made thing pretty difficult for him early on and exacerbated the issues we did have.

Just some light reading on top NIL programs...we are nowhere near the upper levels.

Coaches Reveal Top NIL Programs in College Basketball

CBS Sports' Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander recently conducted their annual Candid Coaches series, spending a month surveying over 100 Division I men’s basketba

www.si.com

Candid Coaches: Which programs do you believe have the best NIL situations?

We asked more than 100 coaches who they think have the best name, image and likeness programs in place

www.google.com

PM was behind the 8 ball on NIL (and OU as a whole was at first) and the powers that be did not help until this year. He made the huge mistake of putting his eggs in a couple of baskets without an initial backup plan. I think he recovered ok but it cost him. I like where we are on big recruiting going forward but we'll see.


I think winning 21 games was a positive. Missing out on the tournament sucked but it is what it is. I don't think PM is as bad as a few on here like to attempt to point out but I also don't think he is perfect. I have my doubts we have the means to pull a top tier head coach....and our history has kind of proven that. Tubbs and Sampson were great coaches but they weren't upper echelon guys when we hired them either.

I don't think PM gets fires this years honestly but I also think there are some here that want him gone no matter what he does short of a Final Four.

Neither is Iowa st but yet they are ranked 5th..

As I pointed out in my post .. byu is high on the nil list but not ranked.

Ya, nil is important but my point was there are a lot of teams that aren’t paying 500k per player.. that are winning and ranked.

I still think the coach’s demeanor, play style, fan base support play just as important role.

 

[skyvue]

I can't believe some are still clinging the "state of the program" argument. The program was in worse shape when Kruger took it over.

And I know some hate it when I bring it up, but Coach B. has the women's team rolling and that program certainly was not in better shape than the men's team was when she took over. She achieved that quick (immediate, really) turnaround by retaining the talent that was already on campus (which Moser didn't manage to do) and quickly bringing in additional high-level talent (which Moser didn't manage to do).

 

[CoachTalk]

I can't believe some are still clinging the "state of the program" argument. The program was in worse shape when Kruger took it over.

And I know some hate it when I bring it up, but Coach B. has the women's team rolling and that program certainly was not in better shape than the men's team was when she took over. She achieved that quick (immediate, really) turnaround by retaining the talent that was already on campus (which Moser didn't manage to do) and quickly bringing in additional high-level talent (which Moser didn't manage to do).

Stop this. Comparing ncaa women’s and men isn’t even close.

Just compare the cost of bringing in beers (arguably #1 portal female) to Bringing in the same for men’s basketball.

 

[TINY]

I can't believe some are still clinging the "state of the program" argument. The program was in worse shape when Kruger took it over.

And I know some hate it when I bring it up, but Coach B. has the women's team rolling and that program certainly was not in better shape than the men's team was when she took over. She achieved that quick (immediate, really) turnaround by retaining the talent that was already on campus (which Moser didn't manage to do) and quickly bringing in additional high-level talent (which Moser didn't manage to do).

The context matters. All of the previous coaches at ou did not have to deal with free transfers and NIL. It’s safe to say ou was not prepared for NIL and it showed on the field/court. To the extent that we lost a guy like Moj Gibson to a terrible DePaul for NIL.

Could someone have done better than Moser? I have no doubt. It is just so difficult to evaluate with all of the variables in play those 1st 2 years.

 

[skyvue]

Stop this. Comparing ncaa women’s and men isn’t even close.

Just compare the cost of bringing in beers (arguably #1 portal female) to Bringing in the same for men’s basketball.

I knew someone would throw a hissy fit.

Did you even read my post? I'm not just talking about now--I'm talking about both coaches' first year in the program. Jennie retained the talent that was on campus and turned the program around in a year. Porter retained many fewer players and has struggled to retain players ever since.

As for the role of NIL--it was was enacted on July 1, 2021. Both Jennie and Porter were hired nearly three months before that and most, if not all, of the talent that Moser was unable to retain was gone before NIL kicked in. NIL played little to no role in that first season for either coach.

What's more, the difference in the dollars women's players command compared to men is, I'm confident in guessing, evened out by the smaller NIL budget women's teams get compared to men.

And the most in-demand women's player this season (I forget her name, but OU is in the running) is said to be commanding a million bucks. Just how much more than that are you claiming male players command?

 

[WichitaSooner]

The context matters. All of the previous coaches at ou did not have to deal with free transfers and NIL. It’s safe to say ou was not prepared for NIL and it showed on the field/court. To the extent that we lost a guy like Moj Gibson to a terrible DePaul for NIL.

Could someone have done better than Moser? I have no doubt. It is just so difficult to evaluate with all of the variables in play those 1st 2 years.

By the same token, Lon and Kelvin didn’t have the luxury of being able to go out and immediately bring in multiple transfers to restock bad rosters. Lon took over a dump and by year two was in the tournament because he was able to bring in solid high school talent and develop it. I think there is every chance he would have had even more success his first couple years if he could have replaced some of the dead weight from Capel’s roster with three or four D-1 transfers.

 

[TINY]

By the same token, Lon and Kelvin didn’t have the luxury of being able to go out and immediately bring in multiple transfers to restock bad rosters. Lon took over a dump and by year two was in the tournament because he was able to bring in solid high school talent and develop it. I think there is every chance he would have had even more success his first couple years if he could have replaced some of the dead weight from Capel’s roster with three or four D-1 transfers.

That doesn’t solve for the lack of NIL issue. What good does the portal do if you can’t pay the going rate to get higher end talent? We lost Gibson to DePaul over nil. That tells you how much we were working with.

I am not saying I’m confident it will all work out. But I do try to account for the bad hand that was dealt to anyone coming into the program at that time.

 

[WichitaSooner]

That doesn’t solve for the lack of NIL issue. What good does the portal do if you can’t pay the going rate to get higher end talent? We lost Gibson to DePaul over nil. That tells you how much we were working with.

I am not saying I’m confident it will all work out. But I do try to account for the bad hand that was dealt to anyone coming into the program at that time.

I have no idea if that is why Mo left. At the time, all the talk was that he wanted to play the point. Regardless, we did quite well in the portal last year. NIL is a crutch that is propping Moser up. I think that will become evident if/when we hire the right coach next time around.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

I have no idea if that is why Mo left. At the time, all the talk was that he wanted to play the point. Regardless, we did quite well in the portal last year. NIL is a crutch that is propping Moser up. I think that will become evident if/when we hire the right coach next time around.

A crutch? Simply pointing out that no coach ever at OU has had to navigate NIL before isn't a crutch....its just facts.. it is also well known that we had NIL issues until some money was added for hoops this year.

If you want to criticize PM for failing in some recruiting battles you have to also recognize NIL being PART of the recruiting issue. It absolutely had a part in losing some of the transfers out AND some of the battles we lost for guys (including Garrison).

 

[WichitaSooner]

A crutch? Simply pointing out that no coach ever at OU has had to navigate NIL before isn't a crutch....its just facts.. it is also well known that we had NIL issues until some money was added for hoops this year.

If you want to criticize PM for failing in some recruiting battles you have to also recognize NIL being PART of the recruiting issue. It absolutely had a part in losing some of the transfers out AND some of the battles we lost for guys (including Garrison).

Your point presumes that NIL is a bad thing (having to deal with it). Plenty of coaches have seen it as an opportunity and made it work to their advantage.

Again, regardless of how the roster came together, last year’s team had more than enough talent to have a very good season. He coached it to a 2-11 record against tournament teams, with neither win coming away from Norman.

 

[CoachTalk]

I knew someone would throw a hissy fit.

Did you even read my post? I'm not just talking about now--I'm talking about both coaches' first year in the program. Jennie retained the talent that was on campus and turned the program around in a year. Porter retained many fewer players and has struggled to retain players ever since.

As for the role of NIL--it was was enacted on July 1, 2021. Both Jennie and Porter were hired nearly three months before that and most, if not all, of the talent that Moser was unable to retain was gone before NIL kicked in. NIL played little to no role in that first season for either coach.

What's more, the difference in the dollars women's players command compared to men is, I'm confident in guessing, evened out by the smaller NIL budget women's teams get compared to men.

And the most in-demand women's player this season (I forget her name, but OU is in the running) is said to be commanding a million bucks. Just how much more than that are you claiming male players command?

Once again..:. Retaining men’s talent is quite harder than women’s.
Sure there are outliers. Chavez girl (hoops) or a Cannady girl at tech (softball)

There are a handful in the million in women’s. There is a handful of teams with 3-5 guys over a mil

Comparing the 2 is ridiculous

 

[skyvue]

Once again..:. Retaining men’s talent is quite harder than women’s.
Sure there are outliers. Chavez girl (hoops) or a Cannady girl at tech (softball)

There are a handful in the million in women’s. There is a handful of teams with 3-5 guys over a mil

Comparing the 2 is ridiculous

Once again...in Jennie and Porter's first season, NIL played a minor role. It was brand new. It didn't even get enacted until three months after they were hired. Their rosters were all but set well before the debut of NIL on July 1.

And women may get less in NIL but the NIL budgets for women's teams are smaller too. That doesn't mean the competition for talent isn't as fierce. If you think there aren't other women's programs looking to steal away talented players, you're kidding yourself. Coach B managed to retain virtually all the talent that was on campus when she arrived and she has continued to attract new talent. Moser lost many more players entering his first season and he has struggled with retention ever since. What's so hard to understand?

 

[CoachTalk]

Once again...in Jennie and Porter's first season, NIL played a minor role. It was brand new. It didn't even get enacted until three months after they were hired. Their rosters were all but set well before the debut of NIL on July 1.

And women may get less in NIL but the NIL budgets for women's teams are smaller too. That doesn't mean the competition for talent isn't as fierce. If you think there aren't other women's programs looking to steal away talented players, you're kidding yourself. Coach B managed to retain virtually all the talent that was on campus when she arrived and she has continued to attract new talent. Moser lost many more players entering his first season and he has struggled with retention ever since. What's so hard to understand?

I stand by what I said: look at the women’s transfers vs men’s and get back to us. Women’s portal is just now starting to get going.

Mens 2-3x as likely to transfer.

 

[cowboysooner]

For a lot of reasons, women’s basketball is not even the same sport as men’s basketball. Particularly in college. Nothing personal but anyone that tries to draw some analogy between moser and any girls team i discount as unknowledgable or confused. Now if you want to compare mosers teams to other men’s teams— ok. I might agree or disagree.

Regardless of what I think of moser, I am a fan of ou and hope he is sufficiently successful this year to quiet some of negativity that just isn’t helpful, regardless of whether it is merited. As everyone knows I don’t think it is merited but understand many think it is

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

For a lot of reasons, women’s basketball is not even the same sport as men’s basketball. Particularly in college. Nothing personal but anyone that tries to draw some analogy between moser and any girls team i discount as unknowledgable or confused. Now if you want to compare mosers teams to other men’s teams— ok. I might agree or disagree.

Regardless of what I think of moser, I am a fan of ou and hope he is sufficiently successful this year to quiet some of negativity that just isn’t helpful, regardless of whether it is merited. As everyone knows I don’t think it is merited but understand many think it is

I think SOME of the complaints are merited. I think some people just want any reason to dislike him. I think winning 21 games is an accomplishment last year...you can grade him on qualifying for the tourney and that's fair...but dismissing the wins is not fair...but that's just my opinion.

 

[WichitaSooner]

I think SOME of the complaints are merited. I think some people just want any reason to dislike him. I think winning 21 games is an accomplishment last year...you can grade him on qualifying for the tourney and that's fair...but dismissing the wins is not fair...but that's just my opinion.

It’s fair to dismiss about 11 of the wins. What coach wouldn’t have won the games against Q4 teams plus a handful of others? And why would any of us want a reason to dislike the OU coach? Remember, I was constantly called a homer for my support of the program up until about two years ago, and I lobbied for Moser to get the job when his name was mentioned after Lon retired.

 

[CoachTalk]

It’s fair to dismiss about 11 of the wins. What coach wouldn’t have won the games against Q4 teams plus a handful of others? And why would any of us want a reason to dislike the OU coach? Remember, I was constantly called a homer for my support of the program up until about two years ago, and I lobbied for Moser to get the job when his name was mentioned after Lon retired.

Yeah just dismiss them.

 

[NorthCarolinaSooner]

It’s fair to dismiss about 11 of the wins. What coach wouldn’t have won the games against Q4 teams plus a handful of others? And why would any of us want a reason to dislike the OU coach? Remember, I was constantly called a homer for my support of the program up until about two years ago, and I lobbied for Moser to get the job when his name was mentioned after Lon retired.

You could dismiss half the wins every team gets each year if you wanted to play that game. Twenty wins is a good year any way you cut it. I said not making the tournament is a fair criticism. I'd like to think they win one or two more if they would've been healthy at the end but we'll never know.

I haven't liked every coach at OU. I thought Capel was awful.