Now we can have realistic expectations

[luckyc1423]

I feel like some of our posters are nearly "Bi-Polar". We beat West Virginia and some say we are top 5 in the conference. We barely beat ORU and now some say we will be lucky to win 7 or 8 games.

this team will not change in one week, lol. Its time we have some realistic expectations.

Whoever said M'baye is one and done (most of the posters) is just silly. He is a good college player right now but not great. He MIGHT have an oppertunity to go pro after next year but even then I think its borderline.

Once again we know we struggle in the post. I think our guard play will be fine but man we are going to struggle getting rebounds.

We are a NIT team. If we improved a bunch we will be LUCKY to be a bubble team.

Next year we are going to really struggle. I dont see any really good post recruits that Lon has coming in next year so we might struggle the year after as well (with M'baye leaving then). Unless Lon can bring in some highly talented post players I see us struggling for the next 2-3 years.

Seeing how Bi-Polar some of our fan base is I could see posters getting mad wanting Lon gone when that time comes.

 

[skyvue]

Whoever said M'baye is one and done (most of the posters)

Hardly. I don't think you could name five posters who took the stance that M'Baye will be one and done.

I'm not sure you could actually name one.

Your doom-and-gloom scenario allows for no improvement from individual players and in our play as a team. It factors in no additional recruits, even though you're looking ahead two or three years.

In short, you're overreacting on the negative side to the results of a very young season as much as any of the so-called sunshine pumpers have responded on the positive side.

I don't understand the need on the part of some posters to get this team wrapped up and tied with a ribbon at this point in the season. Saying we played poorly last night, I have no problem with; extrapolating that over the next three seasons? That's kind of silly.

If we play exactly as we did last night, yes, we'll have a rough season. But who in the world thinks we'll play exactly as we did last night over the next three months?

Me, I plan to just sit back and see what happens. It's fun to see a young team (and yes, we're a young team, given the number of newcomers to whom Kruger's giving extensive playing time) develop. If they don't really develop, it won't be nearly as fun, but why assume that's going to be the case?

 

[AdaSooner]

Lucky, show me some of those posts that said OU will finish in the top five of the Big 12. Does this team have a chance to do that? Sure. The league is down this year. Except for KU, and the possible exception of Baylor, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the conference is as strong as in years past.

I agree that M'Baye may not be as good as some thought. I'm one of those who bought into the pre-season hype. At the same time, I'm not ready to concede that he won't have a great year. Now that he is beginning to understand his role on this team and play with more aggression, he has looked a lot better in the last two games.

I still believe he is trying to find himself and shake off the rust as the result of sitting out last year. But Amath has a combination of size and skills that could make him a force to deal with in college, as well as an attractive NBA prospect at some point in the future. I don't see him as a one and done player either. He has some glaring weaknesses, mainly his handles and his tendency to make up his mind what he wants on moves to the basket and leave the floor, producing way too many turnovers. He still has some work to do on defense as well.

Our guard play is not fine. If you watched last night's game, you have to know that the three guards who were responsible for running the ball had more turnovers than assists. We do indeed have more depth and more talent this year, and we're a lot better on the defensive end. What we don't have, at least right now, is a guard like ORU's Niles or Glover, who can create and score on their own. Hield and Hornbeak have that ability, they're just inexperienced and inconsistent. Pledger should be doing more to create his own shot, but he only turns it on in spurts for some reason. Last night was a good example of what I'm talking about.

As for next year's post play, none of really know what to expect from Bennett, Springer and the two juco transfers. If you have seen enough videos on those guys to make that call, please post them to the board.

You may be right about the NIT. If we don't play better going forward than we did against ORU, I believe that is a definite possibility. Still, I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I have been around long enough to know that teams don't always play as poorly in the latter part of the season as when the season is just getting underway. The reverse is also true. I remember how excited we all were at a 10-0 start a few years back, until reality set in later on. One thing is for sure, this season is going to be an adventure.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

It's still November and we've got four guys out there getting used to the six other guys that are seeing playing time. I agree that M'Baye is not a one-and-done prospect at this point, but it wasn't just posters on here saying it, it was other outlets...and most of that had to do with his athletic ability and age.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with being excited to beat WV, they were picked by most to be ahead of us in the conference and at this point, as far as scoreboard goes, they are not. I also see nothing wrong with being concerned about eeking out a win on the road against ORU, but then I remember a Blake Griffin led OU team barely win against Gardner-Webb in an Elite Eight Year and losing to Sam Houston or somebody in an NCAA year. Both times in November, it happens because November/December is basically a glorified practice at this point. I think we will see the bench shorten up and guys getting slotted into their roles through December.

As far as really good post recruits coming in next year, I think Ryan Spangler would tend to disagree with that assessment. That Gonzaga team that torched us, yep, he would have seen a bunch of minutes for them and their fans were despondent that he transferred to OU. We are redshirting another JUCO guy and you don't usually do that unless you think he has solid potential, and we are bringing in two others to go along with M'Baye who will likely be back.

As far as people calling for CLK's head, there will always be a few people that are dissatisfied with the coaching, but I think a strong majority of OU fans recognize that he is about as good a guy as we could have running our program right now. If we make the post-season at all, we've shown improvement from last year, at this point that is my only realistic expectation, that we continue to improve and that is happening overall, notwithstanding the occasional step back.

 

[luckyc1423]

It's still November and we've got four guys out there getting used to the six other guys that are seeing playing time. I agree that M'Baye is not a one-and-done prospect at this point, but it wasn't just posters on here saying it, it was other outlets...and most of that had to do with his athletic ability and age.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with being excited to beat WV, they were picked by most to be ahead of us in the conference and at this point, as far as scoreboard goes, they are not. I also see nothing wrong with being concerned about eeking out a win on the road against ORU, but then I remember a Blake Griffin led OU team barely win against Gardner-Webb in an Elite Eight Year and losing to Sam Houston or somebody in an NCAA year. Both times in November, it happens because November/December is basically a glorified practice at this point. I think we will see the bench shorten up and guys getting slotted into their roles through December.

As far as really good post recruits coming in next year, I think Ryan Spangler would tend to disagree with that assessment. That Gonzaga team that torched us, yep, he would have seen a bunch of minutes for them and their fans were despondent that he transferred to OU. We are redshirting another JUCO guy and you don't usually do that unless you think he has solid potential, and we are bringing in two others to go along with M'Baye who will likely be back.

As far as people calling for CLK's head, there will always be a few people that are dissatisfied with the coaching, but I think a strong majority of OU fans recognize that he is about as good a guy as we could have running our program right now. If we make the post-season at all, we've shown improvement from last year, at this point that is my only realistic expectation, that we continue to improve and that is happening overall, notwithstanding the occasional step back.

I agree, I think that was a great win. I am one that thinks WVU is pretty good (or will be) so I think that was a huge win.

 

[luckyc1423]

Lucky, show me some of those posts that said OU will finish in the top five of the Big 12. Does this team have a chance to do that? Sure. The league is down this year. Except for KU, and the possible exception of Baylor, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the conference is as strong as in years past.

I agree that M'Baye may not be as good as some thought. I'm one of those who bought into the pre-season hype. At the same time, I'm not ready to concede that he won't have a great year. Now that he is beginning to understand his role on this team and play with more aggression, he has looked a lot better in the last two games.

I still believe he is trying to find himself and shake off the rust as the result of sitting out last year. But Amath has a combination of size and skills that could make him a force to deal with in college, as well as an attractive NBA prospect at some point in the future. I don't see him as a one and done player either. He has some glaring weaknesses, mainly his handles and his tendency to make up his mind what he wants on moves to the basket and leave the floor, producing way too many turnovers. He still has some work to do on defense as well.

Our guard play is not fine. If you watched last night's game, you have to know that the three guards who were responsible for running the ball had more turnovers than assists. We do indeed have more depth and more talent this year, and we're a lot better on the defensive end. What we don't have, at least right now, is a guard like ORU's Niles or Glover, who can create and score on their own. Hield and Hornbeak have that ability, they're just inexperienced and inconsistent. Pledger should be doing more to create his own shot, but he only turns it on in spurts for some reason. Last night was a good example of what I'm talking about.

As for next year's post play, none of really know what to expect from Bennett, Springer and the two juco transfers. If you have seen enough videos on those guys to make that call, please post them to the board.

You may be right about the NIT. If we don't play better going forward than we did against ORU, I believe that is a definite possibility. Still, I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet. I have been around long enough to know that teams don't always play as poorly in the latter part of the season as when the season is just getting underway. The reverse is also true. I remember how excited we all were at a 10-0 start a few years back, until reality set in later on. One thing is for sure, this season is going to be an adventure.

Let me know if this list isnt big enough and I am sure I can use the search tool to come up with more.

From this thread “Big 12 Predictions” started on 10-03-2012
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26535

OSUFan – has us 4th
TheGimper – has us 5th
Kbaden145 – has us 5th
BoulderSooner – has us 4th
DFWHoopster – Has us 4th
Geeoh – has us 5th
Indysooner – has us 5th
BigTime – has us 3rd



From this thread “Any new conference predictions after start of season” Posted on 11-26-2012
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27021

ArdmoreSooner – has us 5th
Bgrch1350 – has us 4th
Chaser728 – has us 5th
Sooner-Bred – has us 3rd
BigTime – has us 4th
Geeoh – has us 5th

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I think that OU can finish anywhere between 3 and 8 but my gut tells me between 4 and 6 is where we end up and that pus us right on the NIT/NCAA bubble. We've beaten a team I would have ranked ahead of us and UT is not as good as I thought at this point. oSu looks to be better than us at this point and I don't have enough information to make any type of assessment of either KSU or ISU.

 

[luckyc1423]

Hardly. I don't think you could name five posters who took the stance that M'Baye will be one and done.

I'm not sure you could actually name one.Your doom-and-gloom scenario allows for no improvement from individual players and in our play as a team. It factors in no additional recruits, even though you're looking ahead two or three years.

In short, you're overreacting on the negative side to the results of a very young season as much as any of the so-called sunshine pumpers have responded on the positive side.

I don't understand the need on the part of some posters to get this team wrapped up and tied with a ribbon at this point in the season. Saying we played poorly last night, I have no problem with; extrapolating that over the next three seasons? That's kind of silly.

If we play exactly as we did last night, yes, we'll have a rough season. But who in the world thinks we'll play exactly as we did last night over the next three months?

Me, I plan to just sit back and see what happens. It's fun to see a young team (and yes, we're a young team, given the number of newcomers to whom Kruger's giving extensive playing time) develop. If they don't really develop, it won't be nearly as fun, but why assume that's going to be the case?

I could easily name 5, but to save myself some time ill just name one. I dont want to have to go back through all the threads, I just went back to were I knew a poster had listed this.

From this post “M’Baye at Adidas nations” on 09-13-2012
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26461

Sam – says “one and done”

 

[SoonerinNC]

First winning on the road is always hard. You almost never shoot the ball as well as you do on your home court. Then there are other intangibles associated with playing at home.

Next, we barely escaped from a strong mid-major on the road. No one is labeling Baylor as an NIT team after losing to a mid-major at home.

IMHO the only game we have played anywhere near our potential is the West Virginia game. And both of us got smoked by Gonzaga. So we are probably not in that class.

One of the big differences between us and Gonzaga is they have most of their team back from a strong team last year. We have all our starters back from an at best mediocre team. If we started them all this year and played them 30-35 minutes per game we would probably be only an average team. But we would probably be playing with more precision and confidence.

New players usually try to do too much and as a result often play tight. Particularly away from home. That is clearly happening with M'Baye and the freshmen. He has unusual quickness for a man his size. If his longer range shooting comes around he will be a handfull. One and done, probably not but I'm not writing off potential NBA for him as yet.

I like the new players Kruger has brought in and I suspect the JUCO's he has picked up are not of the vintage that Capel recruited. I am fairly comfortable that he will get us up to the Kelvin Sampson level where we get to the NCAA on a consistent basis. But IMO he has to land the Randle's of the world to do any better.

I am a little puzzled that our half court offense hasn't come around better. It seems that we were better with the half court game last year. We could be running a different game this year because of the potetial of the new players and just haven't mastered it. Also we are pushing the ball harder this year and sometimes it is hard to do that and run a good half court game when you are concentrating on running.

We won't know what kind of team we have until we get to January. I like the parts we have. We just need to get them blending together better and playing with more confidence.

 

[skyvue]

I could easily name 5, but to save myself some time ill just name one.

Fair enough -- you found one. But you've got a lot of work still ahead of you if you want to back up your statement that "most of the posters" tabbed M'Baye as one-and-done. That's not remotely true.

 

[Navy2004]

Teams like these remind me of many things I went through when I was in the military. You get a new group of kids and one day they are doing things great and the next they screw up. I see some good things coming.
Winning close games.
Winning on the road.
Winning with multiple groups on the floor.
Winning bench.
Winning with youth.
The biggest thing is starter from last year taking different roles doing to the best thing for the team.
LK has the respect and command of the lockeroom. GOOD THINGS ARE COMING!!

 

[tycat947]

We should remember we have a lot of new talent that's learning to play together and play D1 basketball. We've only played 6 games. We played on the road against a team, albeit not a great team, that had a 24 home game winning streak and to date, beating OU was probably at the top of their to-do list. Outside of KU (not that they are world beaters but they almost always have the best talent and will improve as they have proven in the past), every other Big 12 teams has quite a few warts as well. I think we'll be much better at the end of this season than we were last year but it's not a given. I remember just a couple of months ago after the football team played like crap against UTEP and K-State and I thought they might be lucky to have a .500 season but they improved from those early games. I think the same with this team as well especially with the influx of youth that has talent.

 

[WTSooner]

We should remember we have a lot of new talent that's learning to play together and play D1 basketball. We've only played 6 games. We played on the road against a team, albeit not a great team, that had a 24 home game winning streak and to date, beating OU was probably at the top of their to-do list. Outside of KU (not that they are world beaters but they almost always have the best talent and will improve as they have proven in the past), every other Big 12 teams has quite a few warts as well. I think we'll be much better at the end of this season than we were last year but it's not a given. I remember just a couple of months ago after the football team played like crap against UTEP and K-State and I thought they might be lucky to have a .500 season but they improved from those early games. I think the same with this team as well especially with the influx of youth that has talent.

I don't disagree. I think what bothers some of us, is that we don't seem to be progressing offensively. At least, that is my take.

Also, not all of our problems/issues are things that take time to fix. Rebounding? That is either something you are good at, or something you aren't. You really can't teach 21/22 year old juniors/seniors to be better rebounders, for the most part.

Again, not giving up hope, just not loving what I saw last night.

 

[stormspencer]

I haven't seen enough of this team to form a qualified opinion (3 games). But what I do notice is the results. This team is winning the close games that, most likely, it would have been losing with last year's team and mindset.

We certainly need to get our act together on offense, but I am encouraged with our improvement and effort on the defensive side of the ball.

Until proven otherwise, I don't see a reason this team can't win 8-10 games in conference. They are a couple of really bad teams in the Big 12 and teams 4-8 are interchangeable at this point...so that gives me some hope for a good season.

 

[luckyc1423]

Fair enough -- you found one. But you've got a lot of work still ahead of you if you want to back up your statement that "most of the posters" tabbed M'Baye as one-and-done. That's not remotely true.

Thats probably true and I probably worded it wrong. What I should have said is some "key" posters on this forum said he would be one and done while other posters seemed to somewhat jump on the band wagon hoping that would be the case.

 

[suncoastsooner]

I believe we have improved from last season but I do not believe this is a tournament team. I'll leave it at that.

 

[luckyc1423]

I believe we have improved from last season but I do not believe this is a tournament team. I'll leave it at that.

Boom. The most accurate short statement of the year. We ARE improved I fully believe that. I think we have improved in all areas including coaching.

However we were lacking so much we are still not a tourney team. And with key players graduating this year, and then mbaye next year, I dont see us being a tournament team for 3 or so years.

 

[tycat947]

I don't disagree. I think what bothers some of us, is that we don't seem to be progressing offensively. At least, that is my take.

Also, not all of our problems/issues are things that take time to fix. Rebounding? That is either something you are good at, or something you aren't. You really can't teach 21/22 year old juniors/seniors to be better rebounders, for the most part.

Again, not giving up hope, just not loving what I saw last night.

I think rebounding, or at least it appears to me, will be our biggest issue this year. I know Osby and M'Baye are pretty big but everytime I see them playing they look small against the opposing teams but then again, rebounding is not just about size.

I'm hopeful the offense will come around at some point. When we shoot as bad as we did last night offense is going to look pretty bad. I think it's a good sign that after 6 games, with only ONE being played at home, we're 5-1. I believe that's going to pay dividends as we get into conference season. Learning how to win is just as important as learning offensive and defensive sets. After conference season begins, about mid-January, we'll have a much better idea how this season is going to play out and I'm not giving up hope....YET!!! :ez-roll:

 

[WTSooner]

I believe we have improved from last season but I do not believe this is a tournament team. I'll leave it at that.

To me that is a VERY thin line.

I just think back to all the close losses we had last year, or the losses that ended up with bigger spreads (7-12) that OU lead at halftime. It wouldn't have taken much to get OU an extra 4-6 wins last year, IMO. I know not everybody shares that opinion, but I just feel like there were some winnable games that we lost.

We lost to Cincy by 1 point.
We lost @aTm in overtime.
We lost vs ISU in a game that was a 3 point game most of the last 3 minutes.
We lost vs Mizzou by 3.
Lost @UT in a game we lead by 4 at the half.
Lost vs KU in a game we lead at the half.

I really feel like any improvement at all, especially with a weaker Big 12, should have us on the bubble.

 

[ouboomer]

i was impressed that the team was down by 10 with about 10 minutes left did not panic, played good defense and found a way to come away with a win as opposed to a loss which teams in the past 3 years most likey would have done. Again not pretty, but a road win against a team and program with a history of beating a lot of good teams is nothing to complain about. I think in January we will know more about this team and be able to make a better realistic expectation for the team.