SoonerNorm
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+1. Their program is in a different level from ours.
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+1. Their program is in a different level from ours.
badger
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Because nobody should ever miss an opportunity to knock Baylor, consider this: They won the Big 12 in football and good gawd almighty they removed their endzone tarp of shame.
But they are still nowhere on the same level as OU in football, recently or historically. Just look at what happened in the BCS bowls. Tee hee.
But they are still nowhere on the same level as OU in football, recently or historically. Just look at what happened in the BCS bowls. Tee hee.
atlantasooner
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My main point discussing the number of top 30 type recruits/players on the final four rosters is that unlike the men's tourney, there are no Butlers in the women's tourney.
There maybe some upsets like Depaul over Duke, but overall the Final Four is going to be composed of top 4 seeds.
And no one like Villanova or NCState, or even KU in 1988 is winning the tourney.
I haven't checked but what's the lowest seed to win the tourney since 2004?
A roster of players not highly ranked by recruiting services is not winning a title based on all data the last ten years or so. No matter how great the coaching or development is.
More so, the titles seem to be going to the team with an elite difference maker. That one top ten/five player who is a true standout.
OU has some top 30 players.
Vegas graduating.
Manning injured twice.
Kornet playing out of position at PF.
Peyton Little redshirting.
Gabe Ortiz in coming this fall.
But there's not a Diggins or Breanna Stewart or Candace Parker on the roster right and Ortiz seems like the only potential difference maker in recruiting (although Dungee certainly seems like she might be at that level, and Manning might have been that player but injuries have derailed her career)
Edit:
To be fair, Ortiz easily could be a Diana Taurasi type who elevates her game at the college level. I don't want to undersell how big a recruit Ortiz could be.
There maybe some upsets like Depaul over Duke, but overall the Final Four is going to be composed of top 4 seeds.
And no one like Villanova or NCState, or even KU in 1988 is winning the tourney.
I haven't checked but what's the lowest seed to win the tourney since 2004?
A roster of players not highly ranked by recruiting services is not winning a title based on all data the last ten years or so. No matter how great the coaching or development is.
More so, the titles seem to be going to the team with an elite difference maker. That one top ten/five player who is a true standout.
OU has some top 30 players.
Vegas graduating.
Manning injured twice.
Kornet playing out of position at PF.
Peyton Little redshirting.
Gabe Ortiz in coming this fall.
But there's not a Diggins or Breanna Stewart or Candace Parker on the roster right and Ortiz seems like the only potential difference maker in recruiting (although Dungee certainly seems like she might be at that level, and Manning might have been that player but injuries have derailed her career)
Edit:
To be fair, Ortiz easily could be a Diana Taurasi type who elevates her game at the college level. I don't want to undersell how big a recruit Ortiz could be.
Last edited:
badger
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True, but much like the Miami Heat and UConn...it's not rocket science. The more elite players on a team, the better chance of high success. When I warned everyone that the sky was falling in 2009 because we were not recruiting/signing anymore elite/top 10 players to continue the trend of success and experience, I was called a SC hater and all kinds of foolishness. But it does not require Bob Cousy and John Wooden to see that CONSISTENT top notch recruiting is required if you want to compete for a NC. Our recruiting has continually dropped along with our ranking. It finally caught up with us where we dropped right out of the top 25. It has been frustrating to me as a fan because once you've experienced the successful fan base, exposure, tv coverage, feature stories, etc...why go backwards? It's possible to get there again, but not with the current staff...IMHO!
Final fours since 2001:
11 Connecticut
6 Tennessee (none since 2008), Stanford
5 Notre Dame
4 LSU (none since 2008)
3 Duke, Oklahoma
2 Maryland, Baylor, Louisville
1 Purdue, SW Missouri State, Texas, Texas, Minnesota, Michigan State, North Carolina, Rutgers, Texas A&M, California
11 Connecticut
6 Tennessee (none since 2008), Stanford
5 Notre Dame
4 LSU (none since 2008)
3 Duke, Oklahoma
2 Maryland, Baylor, Louisville
1 Purdue, SW Missouri State, Texas, Texas, Minnesota, Michigan State, North Carolina, Rutgers, Texas A&M, California
badger
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Great post, I sometimes forget that we have Little on the roster, I think Little and Ortiz will be our best 2 players this coming season, Louis would have helped alot and maybe even started if she wasn't hurt.
I don't think we're being quite negative enough. After all, it has been four years since we were in the Final Four which causes one comment that the staff must be replaced before we get back. I guess that's the real reason that Tennessee let Pat Summit go since it had been a year longer for Tennessee, and they have five McDonald's All Americans. North Carolina is a better program, but they have been to one Final Four in the past fourteen years?
We see raves for Texas and South Carolina, even before they go to the Final Four. Been a while for Texas.
At one time, we had four McDonald's All Americans. They got us to one Final Four. Got to one without any with what was probably our best team.
If we do win the Final Four, I think we have a couple of folks who will want to fire Sherri because it took too long.
We see raves for Texas and South Carolina, even before they go to the Final Four. Been a while for Texas.
At one time, we had four McDonald's All Americans. They got us to one Final Four. Got to one without any with what was probably our best team.
If we do win the Final Four, I think we have a couple of folks who will want to fire Sherri because it took too long.
2002 was such a long time ago... things have changed, I don't want OU to be like LA tech use to be good/elite but not now....
Seems like we played Tennessee and Duke recently and that did not turn out real well!
SoonerNorm
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This is who Tenn. has coming in this fall. I don't think anyone should mistakenly think they are on the decline.
http://espn.go.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2633/class/2014/tennessee
http://espn.go.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/2633/class/2014/tennessee
The football team is 1-3 in history against Northwestern. I guess Northwestern is a better program than OU?
They already had five McDonald's All-Americans on their team, and we have been to the Final Four more recently than they have.
At some point, you have to realize that OU is about as good as anyone not named UConn or Notre Dame in recent history. You can't reject every standard that suggests that OU is among the better teams and make some remark that OU just isn't as good. There are how many teams that have been to more Final Fours since 2000?
atlantasooner
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syb,
the problem in recruiting is that 4 years is the real window for recruits.
10 years ago, meaningless. 6 years ago meaningless.
The current crop of recruits in region all they know is Griner and Baylor.
I'm continually stunned reading football recruits talk about how they had no idea that OU was such a great program before visiting Norman and walking around the Switzer Center.
And that's the football program the best program in college football history post WW2 by every meaningful metric/measurement.
You are right there's no tangible reason why UNC and Duke are completely out recruiting OU in women's hoops. And you are right their head coaches are under performing based on their talent level.
Obviously perceived and real academic edge plays a big role, as does their men's hoops program rep.
Bob learned a very difficult lesson in football recruiting. You continually have to adjust and evolve your recruiting pitch. His staff and his approach got lazy and stale. He's completely overhauled the football recruiting strategy over the last 12 months. And it's probably going to take another 18 months to really pay off.
That's OU Football Bob. If you think Sherri is immune from the same forces, you are being unrealistic.
the problem in recruiting is that 4 years is the real window for recruits.
10 years ago, meaningless. 6 years ago meaningless.
The current crop of recruits in region all they know is Griner and Baylor.
I'm continually stunned reading football recruits talk about how they had no idea that OU was such a great program before visiting Norman and walking around the Switzer Center.
And that's the football program the best program in college football history post WW2 by every meaningful metric/measurement.
You are right there's no tangible reason why UNC and Duke are completely out recruiting OU in women's hoops. And you are right their head coaches are under performing based on their talent level.
Obviously perceived and real academic edge plays a big role, as does their men's hoops program rep.
Bob learned a very difficult lesson in football recruiting. You continually have to adjust and evolve your recruiting pitch. His staff and his approach got lazy and stale. He's completely overhauled the football recruiting strategy over the last 12 months. And it's probably going to take another 18 months to really pay off.
That's OU Football Bob. If you think Sherri is immune from the same forces, you are being unrealistic.
atlantasooner
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syb,
I completely disagree. Both have run their programs at elite levels.
Both are compensated at an elite level.
Bob faced his moment of truth getting blown out by Johnny Football. Losing at home to ND and KSU.
OL and DL recruiting were struggling. He made the difficult decision to replace coaching staff and internally recommitted to recruiting. His level of involvement in recruiting is now radically different. His
use of social media is radically different.
Sherri just had a season implode (by her own high standards) and recruiting at the 4/5 spot is struggling. One top 100 post player in 3 years.
Just like elite DT, athletic post players in the women's game are hide to find/recruit.
The parallels are all there.
I completely disagree. Both have run their programs at elite levels.
Both are compensated at an elite level.
Bob faced his moment of truth getting blown out by Johnny Football. Losing at home to ND and KSU.
OL and DL recruiting were struggling. He made the difficult decision to replace coaching staff and internally recommitted to recruiting. His level of involvement in recruiting is now radically different. His
use of social media is radically different.
Sherri just had a season implode (by her own high standards) and recruiting at the 4/5 spot is struggling. One top 100 post player in 3 years.
Just like elite DT, athletic post players in the women's game are hide to find/recruit.
The parallels are all there.
