Once again OKC can't hang

[coolm]

It's NOT just because of Tony Parker - as we have just seen.

OKC's offense just can't hang.

Too much reliance on the jumper. Too little success with the jumper at crucial times.

The Beard is most certainly missed.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It's NOT just because of Tony Parker - as we have just seen.

OKC's offense just can't hang.

Too much reliance on the jumper. Too little success with the jumper at crucial times.

The Beard is most certainly missed.

Spurs rely on jumpers Moreso than the thunder. Ours just weren't falling tonight. It's not our offense that is the problem

 

[bocabull]

Duncan, Splitter & Diaw shot 19-30 for 45 points. Spurs play inside out. Thunder play outside period.

Thunder have absolutely nothing inside.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Duncan, Splitter & Diaw shot 19-30 for 45 points. Spurs play inside out. Thunder play outside period.

Thunder have absolutely nothing inside.

that's simply not true. Thunder average 43 PPG in the pain. spurs 45.

Do we have a traditional low post offensive player? No. But we play inside plenty

 

[Smash Williams]

The Spurs are a pick-and-roll heavy team with bigs that can finish, but that's not the traditional idea of "inside-out" play. The Spurs did have some success posting up their bigs last night, but it's not their bread and butter, nor is it something that is a consistent formula for beating OKC (Kendrick Perkins is built for that type of play). They still post up Duncan from time to time, with success, but it's become a much smaller part of his game. He's become much more reliant on pick-and-roll opportunities and open jumpers off other action.

The difference between the Spurs and Thunder's offenses (aside from the Spurs playing a lot less one-on-one) is that they not only run more pick-and-roll (the Thunder do too, but not quite as much), but their bigs are greater threats to score, whether it's by rolling to the basket or popping out, and the Spurs also take better advantage of open spot-up opportunities off that pick-and-roll action. The Thunder's inability to replicate that is two-fold: 1) Kendrick Perkins; 2) less ball movement.

Interesting stat (according to Synergy):
Spurs - 459 post-up possessions
Thunder - 446 post-up possessions
Al Jefferson - 533 post-up possessions

 

[bocabull]

that's simply not true. Thunder average 43 PPG in the pain. spurs 45.

Do we have a traditional low post offensive player? No. But we play inside plenty

Thunder have no low post offensive player. Your 43 PPG in the paint is counting penetrations by Durant/Westbrook.

For the Thunder to take the next step Durant will have to evolve like Dirk did and Lebron has. Where you can post him up and he gets easy looks or fouls when the game is on the line. Easy buckets.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Thunder have no low post offensive player. Your 43 PPG in the paint is counting penetrations by Durant/Westbrook.

just responding to your inaccuracy that the thunder have nothing inside

 

[playmakr]

It's weird, because all the stats indicate anyone that says they don't go inside are laughably wrong, but at the same time they also don't seem like they do enough late in games to get the best possible look.

I mean they aren't getting the most or 2nd most FT attempts in league by shooting jumpers, but at the same time Boca isn't wrong that a post/mid post score isn't the same as penetrating inside. Durant's next step is adding that more to his game (he does some now) and his defensive effort.

One problem I see to note is silly statements like "they can't hang" or saying things like the Spurs play inside out compared to the Thunder. (I mean, c'mon, watch the Spurs play)

These statements can make it hard to discuss these things with otherwise respectable and knowledgeable posters. Just my 2 cents.

 

[gracefor24]

It's weird, because all the stats indicate anyone that says they don't go inside are laughably wrong, but at the same time they also don't seem like they do enough late in games to get the best possible look.

I mean they aren't getting the most or 2nd most FT attempts in league by shooting jumpers, but at the same time Boca isn't wrong that a post/mid post score isn't the same as penetrating inside. Durant's next step is adding that more to his game (he does some now) and his defensive effort.

One problem I see to note is silly statements like "they can't hang" or saying things like the Spurs play inside out compared to the Thunder. (I mean, c'mon, watch the Spurs play)

These statements can make it hard to discuss these things with otherwise respectable and knowledgeable posters. Just my 2 cents.

Good stuff. Especially agree about continuing to attack the rim as the game goes on. Now one thing that could be effecting that is fatigue. They are playing heavy minutes without Harden around. That's an underrated factor of the Harden departure.

Part of that is coaching, imo. He has to be on them constantly to not rely on the jumpshot. Especially when Durant is shooting like 61% at the rim! That's incredible considering where he started his career in trying to finish in the paint.

David Thorpe had the best tweet where he said OKC is 1-7 against the Spurs in their last 8 regular season games. 4-2 in the playoffs. The playoffs are a whole different story and the Thunder will play well when that happens, imo.

Well enough to beat the Spurs? That remains to be seen, but I'm not panicking based off these regular season games.

 

[coolm]

well, as silly as my comment may be I still believe it.

Harden was ferocious taking it to the rack. At crunch time he was reliable. As much as I like Martin he just doesn't provide that. Thus it is even more thrust on KD.

Plus, the word is out on OKC in crunch time. Play back and dare them to shoot. Stop the penetration and see if they will bet you otherwise. It seems like all we do is isolate, dribble at the top of the key for a few moments, then hoist up a long jumper.

Oh, and before you say it OF COURSE it all looks great if the shots drop. duh.

 

[Smash Williams]

Harden was ferocious taking it to the rack. At crunch time he was reliable.

I've long been a Harden advocate. When people were saying that his numbers were inflated by going against other bench players and playing alongside Durant and Westbrook, I argued that those players stifled Harden's production, as he's a player who flourishes with the ball in his hands, particularly in pick-and-roll. I was adamant about Harden being the best SG under 30 when people were comparing him to a litter of inefficient gunners and dime-a-dozen role players. I was convinced Harden would re-sign with OKC, in spite of the financial hurdles, because I believed he was too great to let go. My hard-on for Harden is well-documented.

With that said, there is no basis for your claim regarding Harden's reliability in crunch time, because he pretty much never had that opportunity, outside of Game 4 in Dallas. Harden's Game 4 performance against the Mavs was so remarkable partly because the Thunder relying on Harden to "ferociously" take it to the rack in crunch time was such an aberration. The only reliable thing about Harden in crunch time was that you could rely on him not getting the ball.

Here is James Harden's shot chart for clutch situations (last 5 minutes, margin of 5 points or less) for the entire 2011-12 regular season:

That's 3-11 from the field in 132 minutes (he was also 14-19 from the FT line). He had a miniscule usage rate of 6.5% in those situations (compared to 21.6% overall).

Kevin Martin is 7-11 from the field in 89 clutch minutes this season (4-4 from the FT line), with a 6.9% usage rate.

Here are Durant and Westbrook's clutch stats from last season for comparison:
Durant - 151 minutes, 47-119 FG, 37-42 FT, 41.4% usage rate (31.8% overall)
Westbrook - 151 minutes, 37-88 FG, 46-50 FT, 37.2% usage rate (32.0% overall)

In other words, Durant and Westbrook dominated the ball in the closing minutes of close games even when the Thunder had Harden. The only thing that has changed is that Durant's usage has gone up a few points while Westbrook's has dropped a few, but their combined usage is nearly identical (it's actually a 1.2% lower this season).

Martin does pretty much the same thing Harden was asked to do in crunch time: stand behind the 3-point line while Durant and Westbrook work for shots.