OU can get whatever juco player it wants.... true or false?

[TINY]

One thing that I would be in favor of is adding more analyst type positions for ou hoops. When you go cheap on your assistants (like we did) then you can use that money to add analyst positions to scour the juco ranks and leave no stones unturned.

 

[thebigabd]

Your whole argument for jucos is faulty logic because you don’t mention all the flops. Ou landed the very best juco in the country in manyang and he was a flop. There are only a couple quality jucos per year that contribute in the big 12. The top teams are made up of high school players and grad transfers. There’s no argument against that. None.

That's a funny comment considering 20% of the All Big 12 selections were juco transfers this year, and they probably make up less than 5% of all the players.

Also... nobody said you shouldn't recruit high school players. This seems to keep getting lost in translation.

Just answer this question.... is it acceptable or not that that multiple All Conference players were less than 4 hours away from Norman, OK and the staff didn't recruit them, offer them, scout them, bring them in for a visit, send them a telegram, etc?

This is ridiculous man... They flew to New Zealand and Finland to court, offer, recruit, and sell guys on our program and didn't even know about all conference players 3 hours away. How can you defend that? Finland is over 5,000 miles away and they knew about him but didn't know about 10 guys within driving distance of your campus over the past 2 years? How can you defend that?

The answer is easy. Why would we be at the top of their list? We're only going to be at the top of recruits' list if we spend a lot of time actively recruiting them. Our coaches do and should spend most of their recruiting time looking for good HS kids. The opportunity cost is that they don't spend time recruiting those JUCO kids. Personally, I don't want them to spend less time on HS kids just so they can recruit more JUCO kids. Time is finite.

Then we don't agree.... Getting guys like Bandoo, Trice, Vladimir, Kenrich, etc (just recent off the top of my head guys) should be the easiest thing for OU... We would be the best program recruiting them, especially early in the process.

I want the coaches finding those guys, that we KNOW are out there, instead of bringing in guys who aren't as good... If you found some high school guy who can immediately come in and average 14/6, or 13/9, etc. Great. Sign him up... But that hasn't be the case with Polla, Lattin, McNease, Freeman, etc. They went to GREAT LENGTHS to get a few of those guys. Literally went all over the world for them.

 

[TINY]

ABD, if you want to say that ou has blundered a few of their offers you will get no argument from me. Lazenby is not worthy of an offer, and polla is questionable at best right now. Matt freeman was a 4 star recruit that had many suitors so I’m not going to fault ou for taking him even though it has been a fail so far. Manyang was the top juco in the country and he flopped. DSM was juco AA, and he flopped. I’d love to have acuil or brodzkanski but they are the exception not the norm. Most jucos are not good in the big 12.

 

[thebigabd]

ABD, if you want to say that ou has blundered a few of their offers you will get no argument from me. Lazenby is not worthy of an offer, and polla is questionable at best right now. Matt freeman was a 4 star recruit that had many suitors so I’m not going to fault ou for taking him even though it has been a fail so far. Manyang was the top juco in the country and he flopped. DSM was juco AA, and he flopped. I’d love to have acuil or brodzkanski but they are the exception not the norm. Most jucos are not good in the big 12.

I really don't get Manyang... Was he #1 because he is tall? He put up pretty modest numbers (9 and 7) in juco and only played in 18 games.

For example, the guy rated behind him that year in juco was Chris Boucher who went to Oregon. He averaged 22 points and 11 rebounds per game in juco, went to Oregon and was a Pac-12 all conference player. Nobody in their right mind would say Manyang was near the prospect Boucher was, regardless of numbers. Right behind that guy that year was Joseph Acuil, again, from a Kansas Juco... Rob Gray was in that class as well... and was way down the rankings.

We will just have to agree to disagree.... I don't think its acceptable or logical that class after class we find guys within driving distance of campus that would be VERY good college players for OU and the staff doesn't recruit them at all because they are too busy chasing Freeman, Polla, Muni, Lattin, etc.

If OU was pulling in guys who average more than 5-6 points a game and making all conference teams, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I should be able to find guys who produce as much or better than Muni and Lattin any time I want.

 

[Matthew G]

I really don't get Manyang... Was he #1 because he is tall? He put up pretty modest numbers (9 and 7) in juco and only played in 18 games.

For example, the guy rated behind him that year in juco was Chris Boucher who went to Oregon. He averaged 22 points and 11 rebounds per game in juco, went to Oregon and was a Pac-12 all conference player. Nobody in their right mind would say Manyang was near the prospect Boucher was, regardless of numbers. Right behind that guy that year was Joseph Acuil, again, from a Kansas Juco... Rob Gray was in that class as well... and was way down the rankings.

We will just have to agree to disagree.... I don't think its acceptable or logical that class after class we find guys within driving distance of campus that would be VERY good college players for OU and the staff doesn't recruit them at all because they are too busy chasing Freeman, Polla, Muni, Lattin, etc.

If OU was pulling in guys who average more than 5-6 points a game and making all conference teams, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I should be able to find guys who produce as much or better than Muni and Lattin any time I want.

So, which players, from this years class, whether JUCO or not, did OU not recruit that will become all star players? Can I get a list and then compare that list in a couple of years to see how OU does compared to you.

 

[hoopsaustin]

So, which players, from this years class, whether JUCO or not, did OU not recruit that will become all star players? Can I get a list and then compare that list in a couple of years to see how OU does compared to you.

Exactly.. he can't do it.

He falls in in love with juco rankings and picks random teams and players over and over and over. It's a wonder he's not correct more than the little times that he is

Looking at numbers some juco guys puts up for team X doesn't mean they get those same numbers at OU too..

 

[thebigabd]

Exactly.. he can't do it.

He falls in in love with juco rankings and picks random teams and players over and over and over. It's a wonder he's not correct more than the little times that he is

Looking at numbers some juco guys puts up for team X doesn't mean they get those same numbers at OU too..

Come on HoopsAustin, that is absurd and you know it... I don't get paid $2 million a year to scout these guys and see where they fit at OU. None of that changes what I've said in this thread. But to act like I've done or will do enough work to guarantee D1 success of ANY player (juco or not) is totally absurd.

The guys I have mentioned in this thread were within driving distance of Norman, OK.... they were all conference players in D1 basketball... OU didn't even know they existed or otherwise ignored them, and flew 5000 miles to New Zealand and Finland to recruit other guys who will likely never be all conference players. Nothing you guys pull out of your ass changes that information. That's what happened. We know that for a fact. I don't even know how you guys are arguing this.

 

[WichitaSooner]

Come on HoopsAustin, that is absurd and you know it... I don't get paid $2 million a year to scout these guys and see where they fit at OU. None of that changes what I've said in this thread. But to act like I've done or will do enough work to guarantee D1 success of ANY player (juco or not) is totally absurd.

The guys I have mentioned in this thread were within driving distance of Norman, OK.... they were all conference players in D1 basketball... OU didn't even know they existed or otherwise ignored them, and flew 5000 miles to New Zealand and Finland to recruit other guys who will likely never be all conference players. Nothing you guys pull out of your ass changes that information. That's what happened. We know that for a fact. I don't even know how you guys are arguing this.

How do you know that our coaches didn't know about them? How do you know that they didn't have specific reasons for not offering them scholarships? Maybe they just didn't think they were a good fit for the program for whatever reason. Or maybe they knew that the kid(s) hated OU and would never consider us. Or maybe they simply didn't think they would end up being as good as they turned out to be. By your logic, is Bell Self also negligent for failing to recruit them? After all, the kids who played at Kansas junior colleges were even closer to his campus. and in some occasions, turned out to be better than high school kids KU signed.

In any event, I still haven't seen you point to any current examples of Top 15-20 programs that rely heavily on JUCOs. Kelvin does a great job with them, but Houston hasn't yet shown it will be good for the long haul by sticking with a roster made up largely of junior college kids.

 

[Matthew G]

Come on HoopsAustin, that is absurd and you know it... I don't get paid $2 million a year to scout these guys and see where they fit at OU. None of that changes what I've said in this thread. But to act like I've done or will do enough work to guarantee D1 success of ANY player (juco or not) is totally absurd.

The guys I have mentioned in this thread were within driving distance of Norman, OK.... they were all conference players in D1 basketball... OU didn't even know they existed or otherwise ignored them, and flew 5000 miles to New Zealand and Finland to recruit other guys who will likely never be all conference players. Nothing you guys pull out of your ass changes that information. That's what happened. We know that for a fact. I don't even know how you guys are arguing this.

We don't know that this is the fact. We don't know that they ignored them. hell OU could have been interested and then found out info to not go after them. There's lots of reasons to not go for players, whether it's they have no interest in your program, don't have grades at the time, don't like your style, want to get out of the area, etc. etc.


I'm still waiting for you to name at least 5 players you think are going to be really good that OU isn't interested in. It's really easy to point out players after the fact, but I want to see if you can do it before hand, since you are making it seem like it's easy.


KU fans said the same about Buddy Hield and Willie Cauley Stein . "How in the world did Bill Self miss on this guy. Bill Self sucks at talent in his own backyard, etc. etc."

 

[Ghost of Gar Heard]

Come on HoopsAustin, that is absurd and you know it... I don't get paid $2 million a year to scout these guys and see where they fit at OU. None of that changes what I've said in this thread. But to act like I've done or will do enough work to guarantee D1 success of ANY player (juco or not) is totally absurd.

The guys I have mentioned in this thread were within driving distance of Norman, OK.... they were all conference players in D1 basketball... OU didn't even know they existed or otherwise ignored them, and flew 5000 miles to New Zealand and Finland to recruit other guys who will likely never be all conference players. Nothing you guys pull out of your ass changes that information. That's what happened. We know that for a fact. I don't even know how you guys are arguing this.

Guess what...The assistant coaches don't get paid $2 million a year either get you expect them to spend more time recruiting juco players in addition to the time they spend recruiting high school players and helping current players become better. Time is not infinite. Spending more time recruiting juco players likely means less time recruiting high school players. I don't know how you are arguing this.

On a related note, all this "the coaches should spend more time recruiting juco players instead of wasting time on people like Polla" stuffnseems really strange from a person who's spent lots of time in several threads telling us how great Polla's going to be and how OU needs to have more players like him.