OU Hoops Mount Rushmore

[KBaden145]

You're overstating the level of the program when Tubbs departed. We had missed the tourney two years in a row (and three out of four seasons) when Tubbs left, and his last team went 15-13.

Saying Sampson deserved coach of the year actually goes against your own stance. Why, with just 23 wins, did Sampson deserve coach of the year if he had taken over such a successful program and a talented team?

Because, in fact, the team had been just so-so for some years and because the talent level was down, that's why.

Continuing to just repeat the inaugural records of the two coaches proves absolutely nothing if you don't view those records in context.

I said Tubbs got us to a really high level nationally. I never said he left it that way. What I did say was he left it in much better shape than he found it. We had made the NCAA tourney once since 1947 when Tubbs took over. We had made the post-season 14 out of the previous 16 seasons (4 NITs and 10 NCAAs) when Sampson took over. That is 2 completely different levels.

Tubbs made only one NCAA in his last 4 seasons. We were in a major decline from the level of program we had been. It would be foolish to say a coach left a program in great shape when there was a good chance he might be fired.

That said, it only took Sampson's 1st season to get things going and back in the tourney, thanks to smoke and mirrors (excellent coaching), Ryan Minor, and several other solid players he was left or brought in himself. It took Tubbs 3 years to get to the tourney (it was also harder to get into prior to expanding in 1985). Sampson 2nd and 3rd teams probably wouldn't have made the tourney with their record back then.

What I say about Sampson COY matches exactly with what I've said all along. I understand a little bit about what you say with the 23 wins and COY. I think you overstate the relevance of it but that's ok. I honestly don't know why he won with only 23 wins so I will defer to your logic. I would have to see who the other candidates were to put it into context.

However, context goes out the window when you compare 9 wins to 23. That is just too big a discrepancy. If you say you have 2 fairly comparable coaches, logic says the guy with 23 wins had better players. Seems clear to me. As good a coach as Sampson is, I doubt he would have been able to make as big a difference as you seem to think. It is here where you overstate and it's ok. You're a fan of his and so am I.

 

[skyvue]

I'm a fan of both coaches, but I think Sampson's the more versatile of the two. If I were an AD who needed a coach and I had a crew of solid but not spectacular players and there was pressure from fans and admins to achieve a quick turnaround, I'd hire Sampson over Tubbs.

 

[KBaden145]

I'm a fan of both coaches, but I think Sampson's the more versatile of the two. If I were an AD who needed a coach and I had a crew of solid but not spectacular players and there was pressure from fans and admins to achieve a quick turnaround, I'd hire Sampson over Tubbs.

Agreed...

 

[Darwin]

Wayman, Blake and Stacey were concensus 1st team all Americans, Wayman 3 times. Blake was the Wooden Award winner and Stacey the Sporting News POY. All had deep runs in the dance. :facepalm How can any of you leave any of them off !!

 

[bocabull]

Wayman, Blake and Stacey were concensus 1st team all Americans, Wayman 3 times. Blake was the Wooden Award winner and Stacey the Sporting News POY. All had deep runs in the dance. :facepalm How can any of you leave any of them off !!

Hollis Price was a 1st team All American, 2 time Wooden Finalist, won the Big XII tournament 3 straight years & had TWO deep runs in the dance.

How can you leave him off your "how can you leave them off" list?

 

[usedtobe1]

One advantage of being "old" is seeing a lot of these names in person. I started at OU as a 17 year-old freshman who loved sports. I watched a lot of basketball games at the old Field House when basketball wasn't cool. SOme of my memories include:

• Watching Bob "Go Go" Stevens coach the Sooners. I really got to know to know him later after he was let go. He was a Lt Col in the Marine Reserves and I was often his radio operator. Very nice guy.
• Watched John MacLeod coach guys like Don Sidle, Willie Rogers, Clifford Ray, etc. MacLeod was single at the time and OU was a stepping stone for him
• Not many people remember Lester Lane as an OU coach. He was an AA player at OU but died of a heart attack at age 40 before ever coaching a game.
• Jack Ramsey was kind of a rebound pick after Lane died, but actually had a winning record. Denny Price who I actually knew better might have been a better choice. I got to know him better when my kids went to his camps at Phillips. Very nice guy.
• Dave Bliss actually lifted OU to another level. He brought in guys like John McCullough, Aaron Curry, Al Beal, Raymond WHitley, Cary Carrabine, and Terry Stotts. They actually won a Big 8 title and I thought the program was in better shape before Tubbs came.
• Billy Tubbs brought the running game to OU and won with JC players. They were fun to watch and Billy was outrageous. His teams had started to slide and he was kind of PR thorn in the side like Mike Leach was at Tech.
• Kelvin could coach. His teams were tough and physical. His practices were brutal. Although not as much fun to watch, they could compete with anyone. He was always nice to my family but you better be careful when approaching him.
• I don't know what happened to Capel. I thought he would do better then he did because of his VCU experience. He was just over his head. That class with TMG sunk him becasue of their character issues.
• Kruger is the right guy at the right time. He has done everything right.

As far as players, I remember watching Alvin Adams first game. He was a star that lived up to his hype. The guy was great. Waymon was, too. Actually I think Blake Griffin deserves to be in the Top 3. Lester Lane was OU's leading scorer lack in the 50's when teams didn't score much. He averaged over 19 points a game and made AA.... no, I never saw him play. Mookie was the fastest, best defensive guard I ever saw play for the Sooners.

Cool story on Lester Lane: http://normantranscript.com/x1947787205/Lester-Lane-s-legacy-lives-on-for-Sooner-athletics

Kind of a personal story is I had a good friend who was 6'9" but really blossomed as a player at OU in pickup games. They tried to talk him into walking on but he decided not to and concentrate on his studies. The guy ended up being a division president for IBM and retired as one of their top 5 executives. Not a bad career decision. Basketball isn't the best choice for everyone.

 

[KBaden145]

Lester Lane was OU's leading scorer lack in the 50's when teams didn't score much. He averaged over 19 points a game and made AA.... no, I never saw him play.

Cool story on Lester Lane: http://normantranscript.com/x1947787205/Lester-Lane-s-legacy-lives-on-for-Sooner-athletics
QUOTE]

I look at different athletic programs around the country and the difference sometimes between success and failure comes down to fortunate or unfortunate timing, good or bad luck. For instance, our football program was lucky in hiring Bud Wilkinson as Jim Tatum's assistant and fortunate in its timing with GI's returning to school after WWII. I really feel the hiring of Lester Lane might potentially have been a home run hire for our basketball program. The timing was very good. Iba was near the end of his career and their program had already started its 3 decade decline. A young, energetic former player and internationally experienced coach, Lane's heart attack was where the timing and luck parted ways. It would be another 15 years until Bliss' 1979 team won the Big 8 and Billy took us to national prominence. Lane potentially could have been our Iba, Allen, Smith, Knight, or Coach K.