OU now recruiting 6'8'' 238 juco power forward

[Seymore Cox]

Here is a "where are they now" look back at some of the junior college players that OU was interested in the past few years. Some of these guys were hyped as an answer to our problems on message boards just like some of these guys are today.

2006 - Jerome Habel. Played one year at San Diego St before being dismissed.
2007 - Rodney Alexander - avereged 4 ppg at Illinois for 1 season before transfering
2007 - Marcus Walker - The leading scorer for a 9-22 Colorado State team last year.
2008 - Donte Smith - once thought to be the answer for our PG/3-pt shooting, averaged 2 ppg at USC last year, shot 24% from the 3-pt line

2008 - Dee Proby - former OSU commit averaged 1 ppg last year off the bench at West Virginia


# of Juco players rated 4-stars on rivals.com.

2003 - 13
2004 - 10
2006 - 3
2007 - 0

True OU fans know that heavy Juco is not the way to go in this league.

Still just throwing darts at the rivals top 25, hoping they come to OU?

Apparently so...

You're right abd, OU should hang it up on recruiting rivals top 25, despite the fact that two Rivals top 25 players saved this program. We're recruiting Raheem Christmas for 2011. Should I email Capel now and tell him to stop wasting his time and head to Conners State?

Why? There are still Taj Grays and Aaron Mcghees in juco. The SEC player of the year last year was a juco.. a few other conferences had MVPS out of the juco ranks.

Marcus Thorton was a hell of a player. But he's an exception to the norm. Ever heard of Nester Colemenares, Cory Copperwood, Julian Allen, Donald Boone, Mantis Gristaner, Rob Robinson, Ian Grady, Marlow Davis, Reggie Huffman, Sedell Ayala, and Tyler Kepkay, because those where some of his fellow juco all-americans. In contrast, 12 of the top 20 players drafted were McDonald All Americans and with the exeception of Curry and Thabeet, the rest were 4* guys.

Look out for Darnell Dodson (Kentucky), Casey Mitchell (West Virginia), Gary Flowers (Southern Miss), Jarrid Famous (USF), Trevor Mbakwe (Minnesota), and a bunch of others to have a big impact out of juco this year... This years juco class should be pretty good

.

You have no idea how any of these guys play. I doubt you saw any of these guys play.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

What about the JUCO's OU looked at, that have done well? Or the ones that came here and did well. Ellis? Neal? Thornton? I'm sorry, but a lineup of WW, Thornton, and Ellis would be one of the best guard tandems in the nation. I think I'm overlapping years a bit, but my point remains.

Nobody is saying it is easy to find a JUCO to take the place of Blake on last year's team. But if you really don't think we can used JUCO's to make up maybe 2 or 3 of the top 5-7 players or so, you are out of your mind.

 

[Seymore Cox]

What about the JUCO's OU looked at, that have done well? Or the ones that came here and did well. Ellis? Neal? Thornton? I'm sorry, but a lineup of WW, Thornton, and Ellis would be one of the best guard tandems in the nation. I think I'm overlapping years a bit, but my point remains.

Nobody is saying it is easy to find a JUCO to take the place of Blake on last year's team. But if you really don't think we can used JUCO's to make up maybe 2 or 3 of the top 5-7 players or so, you are out of your mind.

Ellis was OK, but lets not forget he was a role player. He averaged 6pts for an Indiana squad that needed scoring. No argument about Thorton, he was good, but an exception to the steadily decline of Juco talent.

 

[thebigabd]

Here is a "where are they now" look back at some of the junior college players that OU was interested in the past few years. Some of these guys were hyped as an answer to our problems on message boards just like some of these guys are today.

2006 - Jerome Habel. Played one year at San Diego St before being dismissed.
2007 - Rodney Alexander - avereged 4 ppg at Illinois for 1 season before transfering
2007 - Marcus Walker - The leading scorer for a 9-22 Colorado State team last year.
2008 - Donte Smith - once thought to be the answer for our PG/3-pt shooting, averaged 2 ppg at USC last year, shot 24% from the 3-pt line

2008 - Dee Proby - former OSU commit averaged 1 ppg last year off the bench at West Virginia

Capelfan, what an absolute truckload of crap. I could list a ton of guys out of high school who turned out to be nobodies too, but you totally (and intentionally) ignored all of the really good impact players OU recruited out of juco since 2005...

OU was recruiting Marcus Thornton (SEC Player of the year), Sonny Weems (now in the NBA), Othello Hunter (went to Ohio State, now in the NBA), Tyler Smith (who was a good player at Colorado State), Terrence Crump (who was a good player at Purdue), Fred Peete (who was a good player for K-State), Mike Neal (who was a really good college player at OU). Then of course there was Leary and Pattillo, but both of those guys were regular rotation players on one of the best OU basketball teams ever. Leary hit some huge shots and won OU some big games. Sure, he wasnt a star but he had a solid role on the team and hit some huge shots. Pattillo would be the unquestioned starter next year.

The very year before that OU landed Taj Gray and Terrell Everett.

If OU lands one or two of these guys (who all had OU offers) here and there between 2005 and now NOBODY is dogging juco recruits on this board, period. OU tried to get all those guys, they just went elsewhere and had big impacts.

True OU fans no that heavy Juco is not the way to go in this league.

I like signing great high school players, but I also like mixing them with really good juco players.

 

[Seymore Cox]

Tyler Smith (who was a good player at Colorado State), Terrence Crump (who was a good player at Purdue), Fred Peete (who was a good player for K-State), Mike Neal (who was a really good college player at OU).

You sight these guys to prove your point? You also keep referencing Taj Gray. Taj Gray was recruited in 04. The juco ranks were declining then, but their declining twice as fast now. As a matter of fact, Taj's juco coach, a coach I know, Steve Eck was giving out scholarships this year. Western Oklahoma State, in Altus are still in pursuit of players for this upcoming year. Most of these guys are huge targets for mid major schools. No juco player made any of the first three All American teams. Marcus Thorton was a great player, but even an avid juco lover like you will be hard pressed to name a number of JUCOs who were standout and for that point serviceable for their teams last year.

 

[thebigabd]

You sight these guys to prove your point?

Crump, Smith, and Neal were all Big 12 starter caliber players. Nobody is saying you are going to find Blake Griffin or Kevin Durant in juco, but you can find really good players.

Also, great job of avoiding the 3 NBA players that were on that list, lol.. My goodness I feel like I am arguing with a brick wall.

Marcus Thorton was a great player, but even an avid juco lover like you will be hard pressed to name a number of JUCOs who were standout and for that point serviceable for their teams last year.

Serviceable? I will name a number that I know of... I know there are lots more and these are actually from a pretty weak class. I think this years juco class will have a bigger impact, and there were 3-4 national all-americans out of junior colleges last year.

-Booker Woodfox at Creighton who was the Missouri Valley Player of the Year and honorable-mention All-American by the Associated Press?... Possibly the best 3pt shooter in the country.

-Gary Wilkinson at Utah State who was the WAC player of the year and an Associated Press Honorable Mention All-American?

-Marcus Thornton was the SEC player of the year and an AP All-American.

-Aubrey Coleman at Houston who averaged 20 points and 8 rebounds per game? 2009 C-USA Newcomer of the Year...2009 All-Conference USA First Team...2009 USBWA All-District VII Team..2009 NABC All-District 11 First Team..

-Roderick Flemings at Hawaii who led his team with (16.6 ppg), steals (35), three point percentage (.310), offensive rebounds (79) and minutes played (36.0 mpg)? He is a projected draft pick this year...

-Tay Waller at Auburn? who averaged 12.1 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 1.5 steals in 28.9 minutes per game ... started 35 of 36 games ... shot 39 percent from the field, a team-leading 37 percent from 3-point range and a team-best 80 percent from the foul line ... ranked second in the SEC making 100 three-point field goals, which also ranks second on Auburn's single-season chart ... ranked third in the SEC shooting 36.8 percent from 3-point range ... in the final 12 games of the season, averaged 13.8 points and shot 42.5 percent from 3-point range

-Keith Ramsey at Mizzou who was their leading shot blocker, best post defender, and should have a much bigger role this year with Lyons and Carroll gone?

-Qa'raan Calhoun at Houston who averaged 10 and 5 in his first year out of juco?

-Nick Okorie at Texas Tech who averaged 12 ppg in his first year out of juco? He had some monster games in the Big 12 with a bad ankle. He could have a really big year scoring this year.

-Juan Pattillo at Oklahoma?

-Ade Dagundoro was a really good player and the leading scorer and rebounder for Nebraska....

-Robert Jarvis at ORU was the best player in his conference and could have started over AJ for two years at Oklahoma... He averaged 18 ppg or so...

 

[BigTime]

I wish my 5star prospect threads got this kind of play. We don't even know if this kid has an offer so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I wish my 5star prospect threads got this kind of play. We don't even know if this kid has an offer so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

The fuss is about some who are pushing OU to pursue all Juco players. The guy was unknown until someone ran up on his name. The one thing that bothers me more about ABD and his constant searches for Juco players is not that he likes Juco guys, because you can find a Gem just about anywhere, but the fact that he is more than ready to dismiss OUs recruitment of a high profile recruit as if he thinks their is no way ou can be a player with that guy. Well we're never going to get high profile guys if we don't go after them. We got a high profile guy in Blake in 07, we got Willie D in 08, and we got TMG and Gallon in 09. I see progression towards landing 2 and maybe 3 high profile guys yearly.

-Booker Woodfox at Creighton who was the Missouri Valley Player of the Year and honorable-mention All-American by the Associated Press?... Possibly the best 3pt shooter in the country.

-Gary Wilkinson at Utah State who was the WAC player of the year and an Associated Press Honorable Mention All-American?

-Marcus Thornton was the SEC player of the year and an AP All-American.

-Aubrey Coleman at Houston who averaged 20 points and 8 rebounds per game? 2009 C-USA Newcomer of the Year...2009 All-Conference USA First Team...2009 USBWA All-District VII Team..2009 NABC All-District 11 First Team..

-Roderick Flemings at Hawaii who led his team with (16.6 ppg), steals (35), three point percentage (.310), offensive rebounds (79) and minutes played (36.0 mpg)? He is a projected draft pick this year...

-Tay Waller at Auburn? who averaged 12.1 points, 2.8 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 1.5 steals in 28.9 minutes per game ... started 35 of 36 games ... shot 39 percent from the field, a team-leading 37 percent from 3-point range and a team-best 80 percent from the foul line ... ranked second in the SEC making 100 three-point field goals, which also ranks second on Auburn's single-season chart ... ranked third in the SEC shooting 36.8 percent from 3-point range ... in the final 12 games of the season, averaged 13.8 points and shot 42.5 percent from 3-point range

-Keith Ramsey at Mizzou who was their leading shot blocker, best post defender, and should have a much bigger role this year with Lyons and Carroll gone?

-Qa'raan Calhoun at Houston who averaged 10 and 5 in his first year out of juco?

-Nick Okorie at Texas Tech who averaged 12 ppg in his first year out of juco? He had some monster games in the Big 12 with a bad ankle. He could have a really big year scoring this year.

-Juan Pattillo at Oklahoma?

-Ade Dagundoro was a really good player and the leading scorer and rebounder for Nebraska....

Seven of those players were either mid major prospects or players or played for bad teams. That's not what I envision the future of OU recruiting as competing with Mid majors and and Nebraska, Colorado, Texas Tech, and Missouri. That's probably what you envision, because you often post about Mid Majors, Colorado, Texas Tech, and Missouri. I want to Compete with the Texass, Kansas, Arizonas, UCLAs, Floridas, Kentuckys, UNCs, and Dukes. We are closer to competing with them than we have ever been and none of those teams are looking at the players you desire.

 

[sharp1]

Or better yet Steven, get Luke Cothron.

Saw Luke Cothern play this summer...I'd take Ricardo over him anytime

 

[Seymore Cox]

Saw Luke Cothern play this summer...I'd take Ricardo over him anytime

I saw him too and he pounded the Atlanta Celtics to the tune of 32pts and 18rebs. I hear he is a very inconsistent guy, but he's definetely a talent.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

The fuss is about some who are pushing OU to pursue all Juco players.

ALL Juco players? Exaggerate much?

 

[Seymore Cox]

ALL Juco players? Exaggerate much?

I wasnt refering to you. More Abd who admittedly likes Juco players. If this was 91 or 92, I would be in that boat with ABD. I would take my Jucos against KU's McDs and race em to 100. Unfortunetely, the Juco ranks are filled with a mixed bag of degenerates, the underskilled, and the unstructured. What is worse than that though is the Juco level coaching which is horrid. They are in many cases going to streetball games or brokering some big stiff from overseas on the recruiting trail, but bring them in and don't teach them structured basketball. That's why you see a guy like Juan Patillo who was amazingly talented become useless in a halfcourt set or lost when having to switch and rotate on defense up top.

 

[thebigabd]

. That's not what I envision the future of OU recruiting

Well, if 3 national All-Americans, a bunch of first team all-conference guys, all-newcomer guys, 3-4 conference players of the year, and a handfull of major impact players (I could have made the list MUCH longer) from a relatively weak juco class doesnt make you pull your head out of the sand, nothing will.

Time to just agree to disagree... I proved (with little effort) that you can find great college players in juco even in a weak juco class and you still wont change your stance one bit.

I mean, if I looked around and couldnt find any "serviceable" (your words) guys I would change my stance because the proof would be in the pudding. But that isnt the case, I met your challenge without any effort and you wont accept the results.

mid major prospects

Tell me which one of those guys wouldnt play at OU, KU, or UT?

 

[thebigabd]

If this was 91 or 92, I would be in that boat with ABD.

You realize OU was the best team in the country and went to the Final Four with 6 junior college players in 2002, right?

 

[thebigabd]

I wasnt refering to you. More Abd who admittedly likes Juco players.

You still dont seem to be understanding the situation here.. We are having this conversation because Capel continues to recruit juco players. If he didnt recruit juco players, we wouldnt talk about them.

You can whine, gripe, and ***** about juco players all you want but the fact is Capel continues to recruit them and as such, as we will discuss them.

 

[SouthTXCoach]

Booker Woodfox at Creighton who was the Missouri Valley Player of the Year and honorable-mention All-American by the Associated Press?... Possibly the best 3pt shooter in the country.


I had the privelege of coaching Booker several years ago (when he was in middle school) and he was a great kid.....very hard working, and he may have been the best pure basketball player I have ever coached (and I coached a couple of really good ones, including a kid who started at Purdue for 2 years). He AVERAGED 30 ppg for me and we played 6 minute quarters! I knew he was going to be a player back then.

 

[SoonerfanTU]

I wasnt refering to you. More Abd who admittedly likes Juco players.

I like them too. But neither he, nor I, are saying only recruit Juco's. Nor are we saying that we shouldn't recruit top HS talent.

I can't speak for big, but what I'm saying is they still have a place to be recruited. Whether it is b/c they are better than the HS talent we still have a shot at (after landing or missing out on our top HS talents), whether its to fill the hole of an unexpected loss (kid leaving early, or transferring), or whether it's to plug a hole b/c a HS kid you recruited two years ago isn't progressing.

I'm not saying ever year we need one.

 

[Seymore Cox]

I'll get with you guys later. I'm at work right now.