I just think he had a very good impact on the Tulsa basketball team, not only scoring but speaking in terms of his defense, and rebounds as well. You have to remember that he is a freshman and Pledger was a senior.
OU, Tulsa agree on two-game basketball contract
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I just think he had a very good impact on the Tulsa basketball team, not only scoring but speaking in terms of his defense, and rebounds as well. You have to remember that he is a freshman and Pledger was a senior.
WTSooner
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I wasn't comparing him to Pledger. Just trying to give OU fans a comparison on how much he was shooting.
Time will tell, but I followed TU quite a bit this past season, and wasn't overly impressed. He is solid. He might even end up being pretty good for TU by the time he is an upperclassmen. I just don't think OU fans will regret not having him in 2-3 years. Time will tell.
Where you overly impressed from the freshman class OU brought in?
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I think Hield and Hornbeak are significantly better, and/or have significantly more potential than Woodard, yes.
Cousins might be more comparable.
But you don't have to take my word for it. Check out what the experts, the guys that get paid money to evaluate talent, how they rated them. Check out the offers Hield/Hornbeak had vs Woodard.
Rankings are really flawed, they only count if a player happens to be in the right place at the right time to be honest with you. As well as who is pushing that player. So you think Hield, hornbeak and Cousins had just as good a freshman year as Woodard. That is all I am talking about is their fresman year. That is the only thing that has been completed so far.
I don't want to leave Wright out. I guess my point is that OU needs to try and keep good Oklahoma kids at home. I am glad they are still in the state at TU but OU had the first shot at them and thought they would not be able to make an impact as freshman. I think OU has missed out on Josh Richardson, Ryan Spangler(although he is back) and others.
I'm not going to debate whether or not James Woodard is better than Hield or Hornbeak, but you shouldn't underestimate the offers that Woodard received. Boston College, Oklahoma State, and Creighton were all significant offers...on par with anything the other two brought in and better than Cousins by far. You also should bear in mind WT that Woodard played on a team with no inside game and with perimeter players who could not create their own shot...not to mention a new coach, an offense he wasn't recruited to play, and also assuming the defensive stopper role. He had everyone's number one scout every game(offensively and defensively)...something that our OU boys didn't have to deal with. Stats tell a story, but not always an accurate one.
I would agree that WT might have a tendency to over value and misuse stats. However, Tulsa is a run of the mill mid major playing a run of the mill schedule. Anytime Tulsa would have a player good enough to start for OU, (past, present, or future) it would be a huge upset. And it would be obvious.
That player would be an outstanding player on that team and in that league. Everyone could see it and there would be a consensus. Tit for tat on this stat or that or offer list or rankings isn't close to being a comparison. The older Woodard is probably in Tulsa because that is where he will have a chance to excel and the young one is at OU for the same reason.
I think you are missing the point, I think Woodard and Wright could have had the same impact as Heild, Hornbeak, and Cousins. OU needs to becareful about getting caught up in rankings and overlooking homegrown players that are good enough to play D-1 ball. Although TU is considered a mid major they played a couple of the same teams last year, OUs non conference schedule is not a barn burner. This is not the OU of past years and I think that is why some players get overlooked in the state because Oklahoma is considered a footbal state.
Yes, you are missing the point. James Woodard being offered by OSU (they took Forte after he didnt commit), shows that you are off base. Forte performed effectively for o-state, so according to at least their projections you are incorrect. The reality is this...players get missed on all the time, and this happens often when they are slightly unknown and commit early. OU recruited James Woodard, and thought he would be a nice player...they just thought he needed more time. Creighton and Boston College promised him the moon, and Creighton was a top 25 team who was better than OU...of whom he didnt get an offer from. This doesn't mean the players that OU eventually signed aren't quality players that will be successful, but it also doesn't diminish the skill and effectiveness of James Woodard either. Big conferences get it wrong...and get it wrong a lot. As an OU fan you just hope they get it right more often than not.
I guess I could be missing the point. And Woodard and Wright might have had a similar impact last year as Cousins, Hornbeak, and Buddy. Our 3 didn't set the world on fire. But, here is my point. It is my opinion that Hornbeak, Cousins, and Buddy are the superior talents and have much higher ceilings. We will find out as time goes along.
I do however think that Spangler was a huge miss during the Capel era. Guys with his size, strength, and speed are harder to come by than a decent to good guard.
My, you certainly have a strong opinion on this topic. Let's not get to carried away on the value of an OSU offer. Hasn't Ford run off about as many as he has kept. One whole recruiting class if I recall. His batting average in the talent evaluation department isn't something to hang your hat on.
I hate to be the one to bust your bubble on this one. Forte is no good. Every minute that he is on the floor makes OSU easier to beat. For certain, he is the one that should be in Tulsa.
Gary, your reputation as a "pot stirrer" is in full effect. My example of the OSU offer was an attempt to have a point of reference for someone like yourself who may have needed it. The Creighton offer was by far his best offer at the time...both in playing time and ability to win now. Players take various offers for so many different reasons. James Woodard didnt take the Tulsa offer because it was his only offer since OU didn't offer.....he took it because at the time it fit the majority of the criteria he was looking for.
Also, your idea on Forte is ridiculous. While I do not feel he is a major difference maker, his effectiveness for this particular OSU team cannot be debated. We are also talking about a player that Coach Self and Kansas also entertained. Perhaps the best thing to say is I am very pleased that it is Coach Kruger and not you who is chasing talent at OU, as you show very little skill in identifying quality players up to this point. Everyone can find the Julius Randles of the world...not everyone can find the James Woodard type of kid in their own state. People miss, it happens, but don't try and make your argument by disparaging the accomplishments of nice players.
Thanks for your advice. But, I'll make my arguments in any manner I chose. OU and every other school misses on recruits. My position is that they didn't miss on anyone currently playing for Tulsa.
My idea on Forte is not ridiculous. He can't guard anyone. And in every other facet of the game he is Keaton Paige light. While the original proved out to be good enough and a sure enough gamer at crunch time, the light version has yet to offer up any evidence that he has the abilities to overcome his deficiencies.
If they have superior talent shouldn't they have made a bigger impact this year? I don't understand that one.
What makes you think that they didn't make a big impact?
I am going off of your satetement, you said similar impact but that they had superior talent.
There isn't always a one to one relationship between skill and ability and results. You didn't know that? That reality covers every human endeavor including basketball.
You made a mistake I understand.
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