OUr best team ever?

[cyberthoth]

I was alive in the late 80s but didn't care about basketball. I watched nearly every game during 2002 during our Final Four run.

At this point I feel pretty confident saying this team is better right now than that '02 club and I still feel like there's growth to be had with the bench and with Lattin.

We are considerably better at every guard position (does anyone disagree?) and I personally feel Spangler/McGhee and Lattin/Brown are both washes at this point. McGhee was a better scorer but Spangler's defense equals things out and Lattin and Brown have pretty similar statistics. That 02 team had two good players off the bench (Selvy, Detrich) and that was it. This team is taller and deeper.

My question for the group is how do we compare to the 80s team that lost to Kansas?

 

[StatGeek]

This team hasn't really accomplished anything (yet). This team would need to make the Final Four to be in the discussion and would technically need to win the title. As far as personnel, 88 was hands down more talented IMO, and the 2002 team was every bit as good as this team is right now (I agree this team could continue to get better). You could also argue other teams (Waymans teams, 1990, 2003, Blakes Sophmore season off the top of my head).

 

[DenverSooner]

These guys are shooting the three substantially better than the 88 team but they have not played conference games. If they shoot above forty percent as a team after conference play that is notably better than 88 Plus in 88 I don't recall King or Grant shooting the three. I do recall Grant scoring on a lot of mid range shots and King having a really good post game.


Right now I would say the 88 starters were notably better in the post but these guys might be better in the back court.

I think I like this bench better. In 88 we had Tony Martin, Terrence Mullins, Greg Bell, Andre Wylie, and Terrence Jones (I think). Walker is better than Mullins in my opinion. Martin was probably better than Manyang but I like the combination of Manyang, McNeace, and Buford over Martin, Bell, and Wylie. Bell and Wylie made some athletic plays but they were undersized and didn't shoot all that well as I remember things. I think james and Odomes might offer more than Jones.

At this point I would say the 88 team was better but I would not say hands down and I would remind people they are likely remembering how they played in March as well as how Martin, Mullins and Jones played later in their careers To me the thing that separates 88 is grant and King Those guys were unbelievable

 

[KBaden145]

I love this team and these guys but, no, it's not close at this point. I do think they are more complete and better than the '09 team. As we go along, it might become a debate with the '02 team. Tubbs arguably had multiple teams that were better than we are right now ('84, '85, '89, '90) but the '88 team is just not up for debate for me. We'll have to win the whole damn thing to decide that comparison. We haven't even started conference play yet. Too early for this...


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[NickZepp]

I think this could end up being a top 5 all time at OU if not number 1. We've still got a long ways to go. Still well over 20 games left maybe even 30.

 

[okienole3]

These guys are shooting the three substantially better than the 88 team but they have not played conference games. If they shoot above forty percent as a team after conference play that is notably better than 88 Plus in 88 I don't recall King or Grant shooting the three. I do recall Grant scoring on a lot of mid range shots and King having a really good post game.


Right now I would say the 88 starters were notably better in the post but these guys might be better in the back court.

I think I like this bench better. In 88 we had Tony Martin, Terrence Mullins, Greg Bell, Andre Wylie, and Terrence Jones (I think). Walker is better than Mullins in my opinion. Martin was probably better than Manyang but I like the combination of Manyang, McNeace, and Buford over Martin, Bell, and Wylie. Bell and Wylie made some athletic plays but they were undersized and didn't shoot all that well as I remember things. I think james and Odomes might offer more than Jones.

At this point I would say the 88 team was better but I would not say hands down and I would remind people they are likely remembering how they played in March as well as how Martin, Mullins and Jones played later in their careers To me the thing that separates 88 is grant and King Those guys were unbelievable

Mike Bell and Tyrone Jones.

Too early to tell with this team. I will say this though, college basketball was a lot different back in '88. Guys stuck around. Teams were better.

 

[NickZepp]

Style was also better. Not many teams get above 85 a game.

 

[kbsooner]

The beauty of Tubbs is he had a system and had players that fit it extremely well. Those teams pressured the ball unbelievably well, steals and layups were the norm. No one has mentioned Mookie. He was freaking amazing, the dude had 13 steals in one game! The starting 5 on that team was all Jrs and Srs, and IMO would beat this years squad. I may give the bench to this years squad if they continue to progress. This is a good article on 88, we just crushed teams. Won 26 of our games by double digits... I was only 11 for the title game, but I was absolutely crushed when we lost to KU...

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208389786

But I'm not sure this team's ceiling has been hit yet. We have been shooting lights out, hope that continues... If AK can start doubling his minutes, I think he could close to a double double guy + the defensive difference maker in the middle, then watch out! Then you have a guy like Buford who had stagnated just explode last night! I am just so impressed at the TEAM LK and his staff has assembled, really special.

 

[atlantasooner]

I think 1-11 this might be the most talented OU team ever.
Not starting five, that goes to 88
Not best player, that's Tisdale or Blake

 

[SoonerinNC]

I think the 88 starters were probably the best in OU history and better than this team.

If our depth develops where we can go 9 or 10 deep without a dropoff then this team could be as good.

I have always felt that the 88 team lost to Kansas because of depth. We liked to run and Kansas ran with us full tilt and our guys were gassed at the end while Kansas had enough depth to have their legs under them. I think we were the best team but any team is up and down and we were not at our best in that game.

If this team continues to improve I think it well be better than any of Kelvin's teams. A lot depends on Buddy and Cousins. If they keep up their early season performance they can carry the team. It will be harder for this team to win it all. In 88 the Moses Malones of this world went pro out of high school instead of playing a year in college.

 

[opsooner]

Long way to go. Better overall starters in 87-88 in my opinion. Definitely more depth on this team but their value is still not completely known. I am a fan of Tubbs but I like this coaching staff better right now because I feel like we are more able to compete in either a run and shoot game or a hard-nosed defensive basketball game.

 

[Larry72]

88 team better than now, but this team could challenge them

 

[bgrch1350]

On the sports animal this morning, one of them said that this team was better than the Blake Griffin team. I really thought about that. As good as this team is and as far as this team can go, If I had to pick one of those teams, I would take Griffin's team. Our post players would not be able to stop him and I say that b/c no team could stop him not even Hansbrough and company for UNC. And do I think this team would beat that great UNC team...no I don't.

I'm not saying that Griffin's team is the best of all time b/c I don't believe that but after thinking about it I do think Griffin's team was better than this team.

 

[DenverSooner]

I am curious why everyone is so quick to say the 88 backcourt was better. I agree it was really good but so are Heild, Cousins and Woodard. All three will play professional basketball at a high level. Perhaps no one will have the professional career of Mookie but that does not mean they were per we better than this backcourt.

I do think the front court was notably better. Two first round NBA picks is hard to beat. The 88 guys were bigger (starters), more athletic and better basketball skills but Spangler has more range, rebounds as well and is extremely good. I think he could be a 15+ guy on a less talented team.

Finally, when you think about this don't just compare stats because the pace of play was faster and Stubbs didn't sub much. Also, I am trying to compare 88 in December to this year now. Not where Mookie and the others will be in March or the end of their senior years.

Ultimately it doesn't matter and it is awesome to even be able to legitimately debate it.

 

[sperry]

It's definitely the best back court we've ever had. And a good senior laden back court can carry a team deep in March.


However, where we do benefit, is just like in football this year. This OU team has some flaws, but every team does. There are no ridiculous teams this season. Our '09 team was really good. They could have won the title many years, but they ran into one of the best college basketball teams of all time. There aren't any teams like that this year. We aren't going to run into a team that is throwing out a starting lineup of 5 NBA players, and if we do they will be mostly freshmen where our seniors can negate some of that talent advantage. There is no team that will just hopelessly outclass us, and if we play well we can win the whole thing.

 

[Zimwillett]

As much as I love this current squad, it's hard to put them ahead of the 1988 team. King, Grant, and Blaylock were all first round picks who went on to have long NBA careers. Ricky Grace was an outstanding talent who wound up having a Hall of Fame pro career in Australia. I'm not sure this current team has that kind of talent. That, coupled with what they actually accomplished on the court at OU, and I think 1988 is still the best.

All that said, there's a lot left for this team to accomplish. I would happily change my tune if/when this team makes a final four run (or better).

 

[cvangild]

The '88 team would beat this team 8 out of every 10 times they played by double digits.

I also think the '90 team is a level above this team. The '02 team?? Hard to say.

This team will struggle on nights when they aren't hitting the 3 ball....whereas those other teams had a much better ability to score down low consistently.

JMO.

 

[DenverSooner]

I don't agree that 88 or any prior OU team beats this team 8 out of 10 times. If you go back and look at OU's schedule, the best teams OU played, typically played the 88 team reasonably close. FSU and Georgia had very competitive games against that team. KSU beat them in Manhattan and played them close in KC. LSU beat them in New Orleans. ISU, OSU, and KU all played them close when OU was on the road (KU played them close in Norman too). Pitt was a very close game. Missouri beat them in Columbia and played them close in the Big XII tournament. There is ample evidence that the better large school teams could compete with the 88 team.

 

[MO]

It's definitely the best back court we've ever had. [h/QUOTE]


Whoa, these guys look good, but Mookie Blaylock and Ricky Grace, well that ends that discussion.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I am curious why everyone is so quick to say the 88 backcourt was better. I agree it was really good but so are Heild, Cousins and Woodard. All three will play professional basketball at a high level. Perhaps no one will have the professional career of Mookie but that does not mean they were per we better than this backcourt.

I do think the front court was notably better. Two first round NBA picks is hard to beat. The 88 guys were bigger (starters), more athletic and better basketball skills but Spangler has more range, rebounds as well and is extremely good. I think he could be a 15+ guy on a less talented team.

Finally, when you think about this don't just compare stats because the pace of play was faster and Stubbs didn't sub much. Also, I am trying to compare 88 in December to this year now. Not where Mookie and the others will be in March or the end of their senior years.

Ultimately it doesn't matter and it is awesome to even be able to legitimately debate it.

I love Buddy but Blaylock is better than any guard on this team and for my money Grace was better than Woodard. I don't think Cousins is as good a shooter as was Sieger and Sieger was a lockdown defender. Cousins is good at defense too though.

I don't know if this backcourt is as good as the 2003 team with Price, Quannis and Ebi. At this point I thin 2003 is better but a lot of season left and I may change my mind.