Pace

[WTSooner]

I'm not sure there is another aspect of basketball that two fans can watch during a game, and come away with completely different opinions on. Numerous times I've heard other fans say that a team plays fast, or slow, only to have my opinion be that the opposite is true.

I think one of the more interesting unknowns about what LK will eventually do at OU is the pace at which he wants to play. I know he is saying he wants to play uptempo, and I know one of the players recently suggested we were practicing at Mizzou-like speeds, but I'm not sold that our pace will actually be that fast.

Firstly, the team as it is currently built, IMO, doesn't have the talent to play fast. To play fast, you have to have guys that can play fast, and not get sloppy. I don't think that is the case for a number of our players. Sure, we have some guys that can run the court well, but simply running the court well doesn't automatically mean a quick pace would benefit you.

Secondly, and I haven't done this research yet as I'm typing this, but I don't think there is much in LK's history to suggest we'll play fast. I'll add the data below, and maybe it'll show my theory to be false, but I really wouldn't consider UNLV to be an uptempo team in recent years.

UNLV's team pace ranking over the last 5 years:
2011 - 110
2010 - 167
2009 - 169
2008 - 235
2007 - 200

Even at his best, last year, I wouldn't really consider being the 110th fastest team to be all that uptempo.

For comparison, here is OU's tempo under Capel for those same years:
2011 - 244
2010 - 205
2009 - 111
2008 - 263
2007 - 293

And the last four years under Kelvin:
2006 - 273
2005 - 189
2004 - 252
2003 - 298

So what does that all mean? I don't know. Looks like LK gradually increased the pace when he was at UNLV, but still never got above 111th. I really wanted to see what the 2002 OU team was, as I think that was probably one of Kelvin's faster teams. Even with Blake, on Capel's fastest team, they were still only 111th.

I really expect that once the game start this year you'll see us slow things up. I don't think we have the horses to run with KU/Mizzou, and schools like aTm and TT will intentionally slow us up, most likely. I can see pace improving over time, but anybody that thinks were going to go out and play like Mizzou (14th ranked team last year in pace) is going to be really disappointed.

 

[WTSooner]

To clarify, I'm not saying we are going to walk the ball up the court, and milk the shot clock. Not at all. I'm just saying we likely aren't going to run just to run (we'll do it when it's available), but when we do get into our halfcourt set, we probably won't be shooting the ball really early in the shot clock. If that makes sense.

 

[boksooner]

I think we will run off turnovers and missed shots (if it is an easy outlet), but I doubt the overall pace will be fast. I do think it will be faster than some of those Capel teams.

 

[AdaSooner]

I'm not sure there is another aspect of basketball that two fans can watch during a game, and come away with completely different opinions on. Numerous times I've heard other fans say that a team plays fast, or slow, only to have my opinion be that the opposite is true.

I think one of the more interesting unknowns about what LK will eventually do at OU is the pace at which he wants to play. I know he is saying he wants to play uptempo, and I know one of the players recently suggested we were practicing at Mizzou-like speeds, but I'm not sold that our pace will actually be that fast.

Firstly, the team as it is currently built, IMO, doesn't have the talent to play fast. To play fast, you have to have guys that can play fast, and not get sloppy. I don't think that is the case for a number of our players. Sure, we have some guys that can run the court well, but simply running the court well doesn't automatically mean a quick pace would benefit you.

Agreed.

I'll add that players as well as recruits during the Capel era did not see OU's pace of play the same way I did. They were often quoted as saying that they liked his up-tempo style of play, something we kept hearing about but never really saw while he was at OU. With the exception of Blake's sophomore season and an occasional steal for a break-away layup or dunk, that was not my idea of up-tempo basketball.

While I believe the pace will be faster this season, I doubt if we'll see anything to rival the Billy Tubbs coached teams. For one thing, it takes a special brand of player/athlete to play up-tempo basketball. Kruger may get there in time. I just have my doubts if he can do it this year.

 

[DenverSooner]

Agreed.

I'll add that players as well as recruits during the Capel era did not see OU's pace of play the same way I did. They were often quoted as saying that they liked his up-tempo style of play, something we kept hearing about but never really saw while he was at OU. With the exception of Blake's sophomore season and an occasional steal for a break-away layup or dunk, that was not my idea of up-tempo basketball.

While I believe the pace will be faster this season, I doubt if we'll see anything to rival the Billy Tubbs coached teams. For one thing, it takes a special brand of player/athlete to play up-tempo basketball. Kruger may get there in time. I just have my doubts if he can do it this year.

I think OU fans that recall the Billy Tubbs era will likely never think OU plays an uptempo game. Back then OU, Laylola Marrymount, and UNLV were all about uptempo basketball. They were probably the three most notable teams pressing; however, the entire game was played at much more uptempo pace. In the Big XII region, KU (Roy Williams), Missouri (Norm Stewart), ISU (Johnnie Orr) , KSU, OSU (under Hamilton), Arkansas (Nolan Richardson) Texas (Tom Penders) and several other teams were all about uptempo basketball. Arkansas and UNLV both won titles playing uptempo basketball.

 

[WTSooner]

Wanted to bump this because there has been some talk of pace in recent weeks.

Since I made that first post, we now have LK's 2012 OU team to compare.

2012 - 107

I probably should have included the actual pace factor, instead of just where that ranked the team. I might do that later.

I think you might see that number creep down (ie, we'll rank faster than last year), but I'm not sure by how much. While I think we will try to run against the teams it makes sense to run against, I don't think you'll see us push the ball (except in obvious situations), against the likes of Kansas, Baylor, and possibly teams like UT and OSU.

Be interesting to see just how fast LK is comfortable playing. History says not overly fast. And with our fastest guys being young, he might tighten the reigns against the more talented teams. I remember sitting in the BOK Center in March 2011, center court and five rows up, and watching a pretty athletic UNLV play at an almost Kelvin Sampson pace against a slightly more athletic Illinois team. LK might want to run, but he wants to win more. And winning in the Big 12 means playing smart, which I think we mean a pretty modest pace most games. Don't forget, under Capel OU ran a lot on the breaks and tried to push at times, but never really generated a pace much quicker than last year's OU team. And that was with Blake Griffin and WW.

 

[AdaSooner]

If the pace of play is not faster this year, it won't be because Kruger is not pushing his players to increase the tempo. In the practices and scrimmages I have watched, he is constantly urging them to push the ball at every opportunity.

I think the pace will be faster because we finally have the depth to play an up tempo game, and do it for 40 minutes if it's working to our advantage. That's a luxury we didn't have last year. We also have better ball handlers in our three freshmen guards and M'Baye. The number of turnovers against Washburn may not prove that to be true. But as the season progresses and our new players adjust to the speed and physicality of the college game, that will only get better.

 

[SoonerinNC]

I agree Ada

If you watch the practices Kruger is wasting an inordinate amount of practice time pushing up tempo if we are not going to play that way. In every full court practice situation they are pushing the ball hard. And he is on them to push harder.

 

[StatGeek]

I agree Ada

If you watch the practices Kruger is wasting an inordinate amount of practice time pushing up tempo if we are not going to play that way. In every full court practice situation they are pushing the ball hard. And he is on them to push harder.

I have noticed the same thing. LK wants to push the basketball down the floor at every opportunity.

 

[garyeb2]

I agree Ada

If you watch the practices Kruger is wasting an inordinate amount of practice time pushing up tempo if we are not going to play that way. In every full court practice situation they are pushing the ball hard. And he is on them to push harder.

I agree, but, it is more than just that. When in half court sets Kruger will stop the action and coach up a player pretty good. Just the simple stuff like a weakside wing rotating down to the baseline or back up again. That movement has to be a sprint, not a trot.

The standard for everything is to be quicker and crisper. Myself and a couple of others agreed that Kruger was asking the players to do things last season that they were just not capable of doing. Especially on defense. He may be doing alittle of the same thing this season on pace of play.

But, it is Kruger's job to set the bar. And it is the player's job to hit the mark.

 

[WTSooner]

There is a lot more to pace then simply pushing the ball after getting a rebound. And even if you push it, and pull it back out, and it takes you a while within your offensive sets to get shots, that will slow down your pace.

I have no doubts we'll push the ball more, and faster. I just think we'll end up pulling it back out enough.....and I don't think we'll get/take a lot of quick shots within our offense, that our pace numbers aren't going to change much. The teams with the faster pace numbers are teams that aren't necessarily going to push the ball faster, but teams that are going to take quicker shots within their offense.

Ratings-wise, I'd expect us to be between 90-110.